WHO IS GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

[3rdAngel]

Christianity was made by a small branch of Hellenized Jews originally concerned with the imminent apocalypse, which is why the ambiguous Son of Man is going to rock up VERY shortly, and certainly within the lifetime of some of Jesus' hearers in Mark, Matthew and Luke, but of course not in John because by the 90s CE when John was written it was clearly a dead letter. John is written as Christianity is asserting its distinctness from Judaism and becoming antisemitic, as you know.

Not really but I am sure this is what you believe because you are still living your life in sin and unbelief. If you knew what the scriptures teach outside of your unbelief you would know that Gods Israel have only ever been those who believe and obey what Gods Word says. You cannot see this because you do not know God or His Word and are still blinded by your sins and unbelief so you cannot see God because it is written in the scriptures, in Isaiah 59:2 "Your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

At the time of the gospels, yes that's arguable. Jesus was a circumcised Jew himself. But when Christianity started to grow and the push came to elevate Jesus to God status ─ which was quite early ─ all of the very clear denials by the Jesuses of Paul and each of the gospels that they were not God were thrown out the window, and games like the Trinity evolved.

Jesus, and all the disciples and even Paul the Pharisee and teacher of the Tanakh were all Jews. Christianity came from Jews according to the scriptures and came out of the old covenant scriptures in fulfillment of the scriptures. Jesus has always been God. You just did not know it because you choose not to believe and obey what Gods Word says therefore you do not know God or His Word which is in disagreement with you.

The Trinity doctrine ─ that God exists as three persons and one substance ─ is said to be a "mystery in the strict sense" and a mystery in the strict sense means that "it cannot be known by unaided reason apart from revelation, nor cogently demonstrated by reason after it has been revealed", which, as you'll notice when you consider the words, means that "a mystery in the strict sense" and "nonsense" are synonyms.

It is true that we cannot know Gods word like we to through academic studies in university. That is because the bible is not a normal book. It is Gods Word and Gods Word tells us we cannot know God or His Ways unless he guide us and teaches us through His Spirit (see Isaiah 55:8-9; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27). There is no nonsense to those who believe God and Word but then again this is foolishness to the worldly wise that do not know God and His Word but would rather sit in darkness in sin and unbelief.

The problem is clearly seen when you consider that according to the doctrine, each of Father, Jesus and Ghost is 100% of God. Now, 100%+100% + 100% = 300% = 3 gods (which is the actual position). But of course that is ruled out irrationally, or as they say, is a mystery in the strict sense. And this clearly distinguishes the Christian God from the 2nd cent CE on from the Jewish God, as does the Christian abandoning of the covenant of circumcision.

There is no problem here. The three being one simply means being one mind and purpose. All three are still God. Let me give you some examples from the scriptures.

ONE GOD?

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Compare with these scriptures here (there are more but we can use these as examples)...

• Deteronomy 6:4 4, Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE GOD
• Genesis 2:24 24, Therefore shall a MAN leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his WIFE: and THEY SHALL BE ONE FLESH.
• Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, BEHOLD, THE PEOPLE IS ONE, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
• Genesis 34:15 16, Then will we give our daughters to you, and we will take your daughters to us, and we will dwell with you, and WE WILL BECOME ONE PEOPLE.
• Exodus 12:49 49, ONE LAW shall be to him that is home born, and to the stranger that sojourns among you.
• Exodus 24:3… all the people answered with ONE VOICE…
• Judges 20:8 All the people arose as ONE MAN…

Are in harmony with...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST
• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and THESE THREE ARE ONE."

Note: in every scripture used above in both the Tanakh and New testament the Hebrew and Greek word used here is PLURAL meaning and application for "ONE"! Now what to put the nail in the coffin of your argument and go back even further in the Tanakh to creation? Lets do it..

PLURAL GOD?

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”
• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other
• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Kind of not what you are claiming now is it?

 

[3rdAngel]

Incidentally, if you wish to check the statements of each of the five versions of Jesus that they're NOT God, I set them out in an earlier post >here<. Enjoy!

Why would I want to go listen to another unbeliever when I can already address every argument you put forward to try and justify your sins and unbelief? The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God and the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God and neither can He know them because they are foolishness unto him. That said there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day according to the scriptures. Sadly though that will be too late for the many that had the chance to believe but chose to harden their hearts in sin and unbelief. Can you imagine.. standing before God one day being judged for your sins and unbelief. You will not be able to say to him at this time God you do not exist. Then the penny will hit home.. what have I done and lost. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at this time and until that day you will have that still small voice in the back of your mind..."What if I am wrong?"

But science states clearly that it doesn't have all the answers. As Brian Cox remarked, a law of physics is a statement about physics that hasn't been falsified yet. The justification for science is not that it's perfect but that it works. Whether you're a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a follower of the Great Spirit and friends, or a nonbeliever, your refrigerator will cool things down when you hook it up to the power.

You do not need to talk to me about science. It is my profession. I do science for a living. You missed the point here again. The point was we cannot prove or disprove God through science.

You keep asserting that, and I keep pointing out that according to the gospels you're wrong. Do you want me to set out chapters and verses for this matter too?

You are 100% absolutely wrong and I can prove it do you just like I did with your claims about Isaiah and the virgin birth of Jesus. You can do all you like. I will still be able to answer your objections and prove to you why you are wrong just like I did the first time and your claim about the trinity in this post, but for what purpose? I posted on your claims earlier and challenged you but you ignored what I posted a few posts back. There is literally nothing you have posted here that I cannot answer for you. I asked you a the question and you ignored it. I said earlier; If I answer your claims and objeftions will it change your mind and make you seek to know God and believe and follow His Word through the scriptures? Or will you just choose again like you did with my earlier posts to ignore them and continue in your unbelief and sins? This is an honest questions Blu. I will answer your claims here just like I did your claims about the virgin birth, in Isaiah and Luke, the trinity etc.... but not if you are really not interested. It would be a waste of each others time right?

Now now. You've totally failed to give reasoned replies to the matters I've mentioned, and used mere assertion instead. What I've told you about the Jesuses of the gospels is set out in the gospels. I didn't invent it, distort it, or add to it. I've merely drawn it to your attention, and you don't want to look in case I'm right.

Lets be honest. Your not being truthful. There is nothing you have posted here that you have been able to prove that I have not been able to show you from the scriptures that is not true. You cannot understand what the scriptures teach because you do not know God and His Word.

Dear 3rdAngel, whatever wrongs I've done in my life, and there are a few, I've done my best to repair. I told you earlier my aspiration is to do no harm, and to treat others with decency, respect, inclusion and common sense. I haven't set out to do this out of promise of reward in the hereafter, or threat of punishment in the hereafter, or anything in the hereafter because we only get one life. I've done such things because I think they're the right thing to do, and when I've failed to do them, I've regretted it to myself.

Could it be Blu that you are doing these things because deep down inside you are searching and your not convinced in your own mind that God is not real and you are doubting your unbelief in God and that maybe there is a God? You cannot make the things you have done wrong in this life right unless you first make your life right with God. You are welcome to DM me if you like?
No I did not think this way at all.

So that one can demonstrate to people like me that the magic actually works ─ which it very apparently doesn't.

If according to the scriptures God does exist and he created all things in heaven and earth why would you think anything is not possible with God?
I am sure those who did not know anything about electricity and lightbulbs would have thought this was a magic trick too right? Think your arguments through.

What is the point of everlasting life? To do what, exactly?

To live a life without sin and suffering and sadness. To live a life that you cannot even imagine how great it will be according to the scriptures.

I don't want God not to exist. I simply point out that God never appears, says or does in reality, and is described not as a real being but as an imaginary one, and is only known to exist as an idea, concept, thing imagined, in an individual brain. If that's wrong, all you have to do is show me. A video interview with God would be a reasonable start.

Well that is because you are trying to look for God through the eyes of an unbeliever but I do not doubt that is what you believe. I use to believe exactly the same as you when I was an Atheist who did not believe in God and His Word. Now that I know and have seen God I can tell you the opposite is true. God does appear to those who believe and obey His Word but will not appear and will stay hidden to those who close their hearts in sin and unbelief.

Then once again you don't know what your own book says. I don't make this stuff up. I simply read the texts to find out what they say. And I repeat my offer to set the relevant texts out for you, but you appear to shy away from that. Still, the link above, setting out where each version of Jesus denies that he's God (or has Paul it say it for him) will give you the idea.

Please forgive me but I believe what the bible says. I do not believe what you say about the bible because you are an unbeliever that does not know God or His Word and have proven this already through the scriptures you misrepresent in your view of unbelief.

Take Care.

 

[blü 2]

Not really but I am sure this is what you believe because you are still living your life in sin and unbelief.

No, I'm not living a life of sin, but it's not without its romantic attractions ─ Pirate Blü of the Caribbean, Blü Hood and the Outlaws of RF Forest, Blü's Eleven, and so much more!

Jesus, and all the disciples and even Paul the Pharisee and teacher of the Tanakh were all Jews.

Given a Jesus of history, Jesus was a Jew. The others started out as Jews but by the 90s CE, as John shows, they were ceasing to regard themselves as belonging to Judaism.

Christianity came from Jews according to the scriptures and came out of the old covenant scriptures in fulfillment of the scriptures.

Only in the hands of the NT writers decades after Jesus' death. And all that writing in fulfillment of scripture leads to the retrospective works of imagination I pointed out to you earlier, including Jesus riding into Jerusalem astride a foal AND a donkey.

If you want to know the Jewish understanding of these matters, ask one of their number. Don't ask a Christian ─ they're already committed to a self-serving and self-justifying view.

Jesus has always been God.

You didn't read the denials on that link then? Or you say all five versions of Jesus were liars and their respective ministries on earth were built around that central falsehood?

Which is it?

the bible is not a normal book. It is Gods Word and Gods Word tells us we cannot know God or His Ways unless he guide us and teaches us through His Spirit (see Isaiah 55:8-9; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27).

That makes as much sense as writing a book and stating at the front "Everything in this book is true!"

Whether it's true or not needs to be determined by the facts of history, not by self-serving claims.

And even as it stands, you're not prepared to accept what it says ─ for example John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me."

Not, you will notice "I sent me."

Or Paul:
1 Corinthian 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

And so on through the rest of the long list I linked you to.

There is no nonsense to those who believe God and Word but then again this is foolishness to the worldly wise that do not know God and His Word but would rather sit in darkness in sin and unbelief.

There is no problem here. The three being one simply means being one mind and purpose. All three are still God. Let me give you some examples from the scriptures.

ONE GOD?

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

This has to be read in conjunction with

John 17: 20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.​

In other words, anyone who believes in Jesus can through Jesus and like Jesus become one with God ─ Jesus as (gnostic-flavored) intermediary, between God, who sent him, and the material world, which John's Jesus had created.

Why would I want to go listen to another unbeliever when I can already address every argument you put forward to try and justify your sins and unbelief?

Translation: You don't want to read what I've written because then you'd have to address the actual matters I'm pointing out to you.

Is such deliberate evasion of the issues a sin, do you think, or does God approve of ducking and weaving as long as you're on [his] side?

You do not need to talk to me about science. It is my profession. I do science for a living. You missed the point here again. The point was we cannot prove or disprove God through science.

What real thing do you intend to denote when you say "God"? Or are you only talking about a being who exists solely as a concept, notion, thing imagined?

You are 100% absolutely wrong and I can prove it do you just like I did with your claims about Isaiah and the virgin birth of Jesus.

I must have blinked ─ nothing I read "disproved" the point about Isaiah. It says in the Hebrew that a young woman will conceive and bear and son, and as I pointed out to you, she does this, and the son does various things and it's all over by the end of Isaiah 8. Nobody in the story says, "Hey, wow, golly, did you see THAT? a virgin bearing a son? Crikey, who saw that coming!!!?"

I said earlier; If I answer your claims and objeftions will it change your mind and make you seek to know God and believe and follow His Word through the scriptures? Or will you just choose again like you did with my earlier posts to ignore them and continue in your unbelief and sins? This is an honest questions Blu.

How about some honest answers from you AFTER you've actually read and thought about what the texts I've referred you to actually say? And when I say "read", I mean read with the intent of understanding what is actually said, and NOT read with only one object in mind, how to make it go away.

Could it be Blu that you are doing these things because deep down inside you are searching and your not convinced in your own mind that God is not real and you are doubting your unbelief in God and that maybe there is a God?

Gimme a break! For some decades I've run my SOHO and filled in the times between being busy with posting on the net. And let me give you a free tip ─ in business, ALWAYS read the other side's documents carefully and understand them before you go ahead. And in your case, then do the same for the scriptures and stop trying to make them say only what you want to hear ─ try that in business and you'll be broke very quickly.

If according to the scriptures God does exist and he created all things in heaven and earth why would you think anything is not possible with God?

Because there's no reason to think that the supernatural aspects of the scriptures are any more true than the supernatural aspects of the Upanishads or the I-ching, or the Tarot cards.

That will all change once you've produced a real god, one that doesn't rely on someone's imagination to exist. And of course given a useful definition of "godness" and shown that your subject possesses it.

All the best.

 

[3rdAngel]

No, I'm not living a life of sin, but it's not without its romantic attractions ─ Pirate Blü of the Caribbean, Blü Hood and the Outlaws of RF Forest, Blü's Eleven, and so much more!

Please forgive me but I do not believe you. According to the scriptures "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" as is "transgression of the law (see Romans 14:23; 1 John 2:4).

Given a Jesus of history, Jesus was a Jew. The others started out as Jews but by the 90s CE, as John shows, they were ceasing to regard themselves as belonging to Judaism.

Giving up the idea of Judaism that did not believe and accept their promised Messiah in Christ does not make Jesus or His Jewish disciples no longer Jewish. This was the start of Gods true Israel born of the Spirit and not of the flesh. Jewish unbelievers were the broken branches broken off because of their unbelief.

Only in the hands of the NT writers decades after Jesus' death. And all that writing in fulfillment of scripture leads to the retrospective works of imagination I pointed out to you earlier, including Jesus riding into Jerusalem astride a foal AND a donkey.

No. Christianity started with Jesus and the Disciples who were all Jews.

If you want to know the Jewish understanding of these matters, ask one of their number. Don't ask a Christian ─ they're already committed to a self-serving and self-justifying view.

Like that makes a lot of sense. Ask a Jew that is a broken branch of unbelief who did not believe God and His Word? - No thanks. I prefer what the scriptures teach as guided with Gods Spirit.

You didn't read the denials on that link then? Or you say all five versions of Jesus were liars and their respective ministries on earth were built around that central falsehood?

Why would I want to go listen to another unbeliever when I can already address every argument you put forward to try and justify your sins and unbelief? The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God and the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God and neither can He know them because they are foolishness unto him. That said there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day according to the scriptures. Sadly though that will be too late for the many that had the chance to believe but chose to harden their hearts in sin and unbelief. Can you imagine.. standing before God one day being judged for your sins and unbelief. You will not be able to say to him at this time God you do not exist. Then the penny will hit home.. what have I done and lost. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at this time and until that day you will have that still small voice in the back of your mind..."What if I am wrong?"

That makes as much sense as writing a book and stating at the front "Everything in this book is true!"

It just does not make sense to you because you have chosen to harden your heart in sin and unbelief.

Whether it's true or not needs to be determined by the facts of history, not by self-serving claims.

Then do not make self serving claims you are unable to prove.

And even as it stands, you're not prepared to accept what it says ─ for example John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me."

You are not being truthful. You are 100% absolutely wrong in your interpretations of the scriptures and I can prove it do you just like I did with your claims about Isaiah and the virgin birth of Jesus and One plural God. I posted on your claims earlier and challenged you but you ignored what I posted earlier. There is literally nothing you have posted here that I cannot answer for you. I asked you a the question and you ignored it and still do so now. I said earlier; If I answer your claims and objections will it change your mind and make you seek to know God and believe and follow His Word through the scriptures? Or will you just choose again like you did with my earlier posts to ignore them and continue to harden your heart in your unbelief and sins? This is an honest questions Blu. I will answer your claims here just like I did your claims about the virgin birth, in Isaiah and Luke, the trinity etc.... but not if you are really not interested. It would be a waste of each others time right?

Not, you will notice "I sent me."

Or Paul:
1 Corinthian 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

And so on through the rest of the long list I linked you to.

This has to be read in conjunction with

John 17: 20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

So which scripture again says that Jesus is not God and that there is no trinity? - None right?

Translation: You don't want to read what I've written because then you'd have to address the actual matters I'm pointing out to you.

Wrong but let me provide you the correct translation = Why would I want to go listen to another unbeliever when I can already address every argument you put forward to try and justify your sins and unbelief?

Is such deliberate evasion of the issues a sin, do you think, or does God approve of ducking and weaving as long as you're on [his] side?

I would not know. That seems to be what you are doing so please tell me.

What real thing do you intend to denote when you say "God"? Or are you only talking about a being who exists solely as a concept, notion, thing imagined?

Sorry I do not believe as you do so I reject what you claim here as nonsense simply because you are an unbeliever who has hardened his heart in sin and unbelief and does not know God and does not believe in Gods Word.

I must have blinked ─ nothing I read "disproved" the point about Isaiah. It says in the Hebrew that a young woman will conceive and bear and son, and as I pointed out to you, she does this, and the son does various things and it's all over by the end of Isaiah 8. Nobody in the story says, "Hey, wow, golly, did you see THAT? a virgin bearing a son? Crikey, who saw that coming!!!?"

No you did not blink you closed your eyes in fulfillment of the scriptures often quoted by Jesus and Paul from Isaiah 6:9-10 that says "Go, and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see you indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed." Your post here has been given a detailed scripture response including the original Hebrew and Greek translated by 70+ Hebrew to Greek scholars that are in disagreement with you from post # 490 linked (second half). If you disagree with the linked post please address it and prove why you are in disagreement. If you cannot what is your argument? You have none. There is no point in repeating yourself without addressing the posts and scriptures that prove why your argument is not true right?

How about some honest answers from you AFTER you've actually read and thought about what the texts I've referred you to actually say? And when I say "read", I mean read with the intent of understanding what is actually said, and NOT read with only one object in mind, how to make it go away.

All my answers have been honest to you. Just because you do not like the answers and are unable to address my posts does not make my posts and scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with you not true. It just means that you have chosen to continue in your unbelief right?

Gimme a break! For some decades I've run my SOHO and filled in the times between being busy with posting on the net. And let me give you a free tip ─ in business, ALWAYS read the other side's documents carefully and understand them before you go ahead. And in your case, then do the same for the scriptures and stop trying to make them say only what you want to hear ─ try that in business and you'll be broke very quickly.

If that was true. I do not think you would be wasting your time here if you were secure in what you believe.

Because there's no reason to think that the supernatural aspects of the scriptures are any more true than the supernatural aspects of the Upanishads or the I-ching, or the Tarot cards. That will all change once you've produced a real god, one that doesn't rely on someone's imagination to exist. And of course given a useful definition of "godness" and shown that your subject possesses it.

I asked you earlier if according to the scriptures God does exist and he created all things in heaven and earth why would you think anything is not possible with God? I am sure those who did not know anything about electricity and light bulbs would have thought this was a magic trick too or the supernatural right? Think your arguments through. You still have not made one.

Take Care,

 

[blü 2]

Please forgive me but I do not believe you. According to the scriptures "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" as is "transgression of the law (see Romans 14:23; 1 John 2:4).

Heh heh heh! Wonderfully self-serving! Whoever is not an igtheist is a sinner and blasphemer and must expect the wrath of the vacuum!!

Love it!

Giving up the idea of Judaism that did not believe and accept their promised Messiah in Christ does not make Jesus or His Jewish disciples no longer Jewish.

I didn't say Jesus was anything but Jewish. The antisemitism in John, last written of the gospels around the mid 90s, shows that by sixty years after the traditional date of the crucifixion, Christianity or significant parts of it were no longer identifying as Jewish.

This was the start of Gods true Israel born of the Spirit and not of the flesh. Jewish unbelievers were the broken branches broken off because of their unbelief.

Wrong God. The Jewish God was still the Jewish God and had not renounced [his] covenant. .

No. Christianity started with Jesus and the Disciples who were all Jews.

Yup. And as I've shown you with NT quotes, all five versions of Jesus expressly denied they were God.

Like that makes a lot of sense. Ask a Jew that is a broken branch of unbelief who did not believe God and His Word?

Please explain this to me. We're in Jerusalem for Passover. A great many people of the Jewish faith have descended on the city.

Who's that with a little crowd over there? Never seen him here before. / That one? I think someone said he was from the country somewhere, or maybe Galilee. / What's his name? / No idea. / Did someone just call him Yeshua? / Could have, not sure. Buy you a wine?

Why should anyone think this newcomer was the Messiah?

Can you imagine.. standing before God one day being judged for your sins and unbelief.

What real entity do you intend to denote when you use that word "God"? Is God real or does God only exist as a notion, concept, thing imagined? If real, where can I see a video?

You will not be able to say to him at this time God you do not exist. Then the penny will hit home.. what have I done and lost. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at this time and until that day you will have that still small voice in the back of your mind..."What if I am wrong?"

Pascal's Wager? But that applies to all religions. How silly you'll feel when it turns out Allah is sitting in the judgment seat! Or Radamanthus! Or some being no one's heard of!

You are not being truthful.

I'm quoting your own scriptures to you. If anyone here is being less than truthful, it ain't me.

You are 100% absolutely wrong in your interpretations of the scriptures

They only mean what you want them to say? That must be handy ...

So which scripture again says that Jesus is not God and that there is no trinity? - None right?

Let's start with this one, from Paul ─

6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

That says there's God on the one hand and Jesus on the other hand, two different beings.

Doesn't seem at all ambiguous to me. How do you read it? Please don't quote anything else at this stage, let's just focus on each example separately,

 

[Elihoenai]

Yes I believe in a literal and Spiritual meaning of the scriptures ... like Jesus use to speak in parables. The bible is consistent. For example... one that really spoke to me of Gods plan of salvation in the new covenant was Abraham in offering His son Isaac as an burnt offering to God (see Genesis 22:1-13). The lesson here is that this was what God the father was going to do in offering Jesus life for the sins of the world to all those who through faith choose to believe.

In your profile you state that your Religion is Truth. Are you a Christian?

Well everything in the new covenant scriptures comes from the old covenant scriptures. Many laws in the old covenant are shadow laws pointing to Jesus or Gods plan of salvation in the new covenant and are continue and fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to as Gods plan of salvation. As an example to your questions 1 & 2. Animal sacrifices for sin offerings in an earthly Sanctuary also show that the Spiritual meaning here is that Christ is Gods lamb (see John 1:29) that takes away the sins of the world and that Jesus is also Gods true High Priest of the order of Melchizedek the Priest king who now ministers in the heavenly Sanctuary made without hands based on better promises under the new covenant. (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22). Christ our Passover is now sacrifices for us. (no more animal sacrifices and sin offerings).

Happy new years.

This is the Historical Yeshua/Jesus Interpretation where Yeshua/Jesus already fulfilled the Old Covenant. Is your Religion Devotional? To many Christians in Christendom the Words in the Holy Scriptures are just Words on paper for Head Knowledge.

 

[3rdAngel]

Heh heh heh! Wonderfully self-serving! Whoever is not an igtheist is a sinner and blasphemer and must expect the wrath of the vacuum!! Love it!

Believe what you like. I choose to believe what the bible says because I believe God is real. You have chosen to be an unbeliever so that is your choice. We will never agree because unlike you I know God and His Word and He knows me. Try all you want. You cannot prove there is no God. You have much more to lose than I do.

I didn't say Jesus was anything but Jewish. The antisemitism in John, last written of the gospels around the mid 90s, shows that by sixty years after the traditional date of the crucifixion, Christianity or significant parts of it were no longer identifying as Jewish.

No it doesn't. Where does it say that in the scriptures? - It doesn't

Wrong God. The Jewish God was still the Jewish God and had not renounced [his] covenant.

Nope same God of the Tanakh and New testament scriptures. This same God however stopped being the God of the Jews born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham the moment they stopped believing and obeying Gods Word. As posted in the OP, 'Israel' "born after the flesh of the seed of Abraham", as an unbelieving 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire. The New [or Everlasting] Covenant is only made with the spiritual “Israel” (Jesus Christ, the "elect" of the Father; Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18-20), this “Judah” (Revelation 5:5) and His “house” (2 Corinthians 1:20 - For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.; – for Christ Jesus, the true “Israel” is the “elect” of God, and thus all who choose to be in Him; see Isaiah 42:1, 45:4, 65:9) The new testament scriptures portray JESUS as the head and those who believe and follow his Word as the body *Ephesians 1:22; 4:15; 5:23; Colossians 1:18. God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

Yup. And as I've shown you with NT quotes, all five versions of Jesus expressly denied they were God.

Actually you have not provides a single scripture that states that Jesus is not God. So that statement is a false one.

Please explain this to me. We're in Jerusalem for Passover. A great many people of the Jewish faith have descended on the city.
Who's that with a little crowd over there? Never seen him here before. / That one? I think someone said he was from the country somewhere, or maybe Galilee. / What's his name? / No idea. / Did someone just call him Yeshua? / Could have, not sure. Buy you a wine?

Your post here does not make any sense to me.

Why should anyone think this newcomer was the Messiah?

Because Jesus fulfilled the the old covenant scriptures for Gods new covenant promises but you have chosen not to see this because you have chosen your sins and and unbelief over seeking to know God through His Word. That is your choice so I will leave that between you and God to work out.

What real entity do you intend to denote when you use that word "God"? Is God real or does God only exist as a notion, concept, thing imagined? If real, where can I see a video?

According to the scriptures, sin is what separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2) Sin is defined in the scriptures as unbelief in Romans 14:23 and breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments in 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7. If you are living in your sins and unbelief you will never find God there because it is written in the scriptures; "The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14) and the scripture becomes true "The fool says in his heart there is no God" (Psalms 14:1).

Pascal's Wager? But that applies to all religions. How silly you'll feel when it turns out Allah is sitting in the judgment seat! Or Radamanthus! Or some being no one's heard of!

Not at all I have been there and done that and there is no God in Islam. How silly you will feel when you find out that the God of the bible is real? I mean you have no peace in what you believe right? You are thinking what if I am wrong and God is real? I can tell you that He is very real but you will never see him with your eye closed even if I send you a video.

I'm quoting your own scriptures to you. If anyone here is being less than truthful, it ain't me.

Please forgive me but I do not believe you.

They only mean what you want them to say? That must be handy ...

Not at all. You were provided detailed scripture responses to your claims inclusive of the original Hebrew and Greek proving why your earlier claims and interpretation of the scriptures from the bible are not true. I am still awaiting a response from you but all I hear is crickets and you repeating the same nonsense over and over that has already been addressed proving why you are in error seeking to justify your unbelief. Hey but whatever. That is your choice. I was only proving why I disagree with you and why you are wrong. You can ignore me if you like. That is up to you. If you were confident in your believe though you would not be on this forum but I am sensing deep down inside you know what I am sharing with you is true.

Let's start with this one, from Paul ─ 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. That says there's God on the one hand and Jesus on the other hand, two different beings. Doesn't seem at all ambiguous to me. How do you read it? Please don't quote anything else at this stage, let's just focus on each example separately,

Let me ask you the question where does it say in the scripture you quote here that Jesus is not God? It doesn't now does it. Also, if I am able to prove to you from the scriptures that Jesus is God will you change your mind and believe; YES/NO?

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

In your profile you state that your Religion is Truth. Are you a Christian?

Yes indeed.. in Spirit and in truth.

This is the Historical Yeshua/Jesus Interpretation where Yeshua/Jesus already fulfilled the Old Covenant. Is your Religion Devotional? To many Christians in Christendom the Words in the Holy Scriptures are just Words on paper for Head Knowledge.

I believe the bible is Gods inspired Word.. it cannot be understood as words in a book. If God is not our guide and teacher we can never know what it means.

 

[Sargonski]

GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES ARE NOW ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND OBEY GOD'S WORD!

According to the scriptures, the name "Israel" is only a name given by God to all those who choose to have faith in His Word. In the new covenant scriptures, I would like to pose that Gods true Israel in the new covenant are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham (Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29 and Galatians 3:28-29) but are now all those who are born again of the Spirit of God through faith (see John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-10 and Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4) into Gods new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). Therefore, Gods Israel according to the scriptures in the new covenant are now all those who through faith believe and follow what Gods Word says and all believers both Jews and gentiles are all now one in Christ (Romans 10:11-13; Colossians 3:11) through faith in Gods Word. Gentile believers have been grafted in with Jewish believers (Romans 11:13-27). According to the scriptures, if we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant then we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. God never made His new covenant with Gentiles (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) but with believers regardless of their heritage.

According to the torah and new covenant scriptures the Messiah also represents God's true ISRAEL as an individual as it was applied to Jacob and as to those who also believe and follow God's Word. The Messiah (Jesus Christ) and his followers are Gods true Israel born of the Spirit of God, are the anti-type, the Israel in the flesh that is not the type as Jacob was or the nation of Israel born of the seen of Abraham. According to the scriptures, Jesus is Israel (Matthew 2:13-15, compare with Hosea 11:1; as are all his disciples all through time; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the true "overcomer" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), the real "Prince" with God (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5), being Lord over His own house, whose house are we (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19) see Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 9:6-8; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Corinthians 15:46; 2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 6:16; Hebrews 3:6, 8:8,10; Revelation 3:21

'Israel' "born after the flesh of the seed of Abraham", as an unbelieving 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire. The New [or Everlasting] Covenant is only made with the spiritual “Israel” (Jesus Christ, the "elect" of the Father; Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18-20), this “Judah” (Revelation 5:5) and His “house” (2 Corinthians 1:20 - For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.; – for Christ Jesus, the true “Israel” is the “elect” of God, and thus all who choose to be in Him; see Isaiah 42:1, 45:4, 65:9) The new testament scriptures portray JESUS as the head and those who believe and follow his Word as the body *Ephesians 1:22; 4:15; 5:23; Colossians 1:18. God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

More to come later....
1. ORIGINS OF THE NAME ISRAEL IS OUTSIDE OF COVENANTS
2. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT SCRIPTURES ARE NOW ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND OBEY GODS WORD
3. GENTILE BELIEVERS ARE NOW GRAFTED IN

May God bless you as you seek to know Him through His Word.

Which God is this New Covenant With .. and Why not the Old God Lord YHWH .. and Which Old Covenant .. as there is more than one is there not ?

 

[3rdAngel]

Which God is this New Covenant With .. and Why not the Old God Lord YHWH .. and Which Old Covenant .. as there is more than one is there not ?

The same God of the old covenant revealed in the new.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The same God of the old covenant revealed in the new.

The Tanakh teaches on four separate occasions that God is not a man. The New Testament teaches that a man is God. They are incompatible.

 

[Sargonski]

The same God of the old covenant revealed in the new.

Which God is that ? Do you not know which God you are talking about .. and which Old Covenant .. there is more than one .. just as there is more than one God.

 

[3rdAngel]

The Tanakh teaches on four separate occasions that God is not a man. The New Testament teaches that a man is God. They are incompatible.

Indeed God is not a man.. He is God that became a man to save sinners.

 

[3rdAngel]

Which God is that ? Do you not know which God you are talking about .. and which Old Covenant .. there is more than one .. just as there is more than one God.

I know God and He knows me. These three are one and the same in the old and new covenant scriptures.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Indeed God is not a man.. He is God that became a man to save sinners.

You are not making any sense. Do you not see that your two sentences contradict each other?

 

[3rdAngel]

You are not making any sense. Do you not see that your two sentences contradict each other?

Yes the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God and neither can he know them because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. We cannot see if we close our eyes and ears to seeing and hearing Gods Word. Only God can open the blind eyes and ears for those who cannot see and hear but only those who know they are sick are in need of a physician. Go and learn what this means. They are Gods Words not mine. Do you know what scriptures are being quoted here?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God and neither can he know them because spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

A normal person with normal intelligence knows that something cannot b x and not x at the same time. You made two contradictory statements. They are right there in the text for everyone in the forum to see and reach their own conclusions as to your ability to think clearly.

 

[3rdAngel]

A normal person with normal intelligence knows that something cannot b x and not x at the same time. You made two contradictory statements. They are right there in the text for everyone in the forum to see and reach their own conclusions as to your ability to think clearly.

God is not a normal person with normal intelligence, as it is written "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, said the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God and neither can he know them because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. We cannot see if we close our eyes and ears to seeing and hearing Gods Word. Only God can open the blind eyes and ears for those who cannot see and hear but only those who know they are sick are in need of a physician. Go and learn what this means. They are Gods Words not mine. Do you know what scriptures are being quoted here?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

God is not a normal person with normal intelligence,

You just continue to make bizarre comments that make no sense as replies. I said nothing about God.

 

[3rdAngel]

You just continue to make bizarre comments that make no sense as replies. I said nothing about God.

I just quoted scripture. I guess you do not know or understand their meaning. Gods Word is not bizarre to all those who believe and obey it who God is teaching with His Spirit to see and hear.