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WHO IS GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

Bthoth

*banned*
There is definitly some confusion here .. but not on the part of Bthoth .. who has quoted some fine scripture from Lord Jesus in support of claim.

You on the other hand while correct that it is a sin not to obey God's will .... Lord Jesus says nothing about not believing Lord YHWH's word being a sin .. and in fact encourages breaking some of Lord YHWH's rules.

Now .. "SIN" can all be forgiven says Jesus .. a Sin against the Father .. A sin against the Son .. but the sin that cannot be forgivein .. is Blasphemy of the Spirity by which the Logos spoke Gods word .. The sin of putting Words in God's mouth .. usurping the position of the Logos .. Pontifex Maximus .. those who claimed to be Gods representative on Earth.

and finally ... perhaps the biggest confusion .. how can you claim to believe and obey God's word .. when you have no idea which God's Word you are supposed to obey .. and thus have no idea the words of which God to believe.

The word of the God that Jesus is Channeling is not Lord YHWH .. nor does the word of Jesus supersede that of Lord YHWH to a Jew. And yet Brother Paul tells us First the Jew .. then the Gentile .. the Jew by the Law of YHWH .. the Gentile by the Law of the Logos.

Not that we should take anything Paul says as inspired - but perhaps you will be inspired - to find out who the name of the God you wish to obey .. rather than making up what he say .. and walking dangerously close to that unforgivable sin line.


sds
I personally appreciate torah far more than 'gospels' and in a coherence of both accept that jesus was reaffirming the wisdom of torah and the prophets. be nice, if christians realized that is what makes the bible work best.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
You do know that God is the God of the living and not the dead right? And that all scriptures is written for our admonition upon who the ends of the World have come? Think your argument through.

I see you have no scripture to support your views so you need to pretend now that the Apostle Peter did not write Peter?

2 PETER 3:15-17 15, And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; 16, As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17, You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

You are better off believing the scriptures then ignoring them. The above scripture applies to you.
Apart from the "Christian" scholars who depend on 2 Peter 3 for their "salvation" through the message of Paul, the critical scholars think Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, did not write 2 Peter. As for Yeshua, he trounced those who think they are wise and intelligent/learned and said they would not understand (Mt 11:25). What Paul referred to as the "holy writings"/scripture, was what he had read from "childhood", which would not pertain to the NT. (letter to Timothy) The "end of the age" maybe upon us, but the "ends of the world", the great tribulation, the "day of the LORD", remains behind the gates (Matthew 24:33). The "gathering" of the "tares" remains unfulfilled, as there has been no "great tribulation" (furnace of fire) to throw them into. Give it a minute.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Apart from the "Christian" scholars who depend on 2 Peter 3 for their "salvation" through the message of Paul, the critical scholars think Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, did not write 2 Peter. As for Yeshua, he trounced those who think they are wise and intelligent/learned and said they would not understand (Mt 11:25). What Paul referred to as the "holy writings"/scripture, was what he had read from "childhood", which would not pertain to the NT. (letter to Timothy) The "end of the age" maybe upon us, but the "ends of the world", the great tribulation, the "day of the LORD", remains behind the gates (Matthew 24:33). The "gathering" of the "tares" remains unfulfilled, as there has been no "great tribulation" (furnace of fire) to throw them into. Give it a minute.
You post scripture but there is no scripture that you have posted anywhere in this thread that supports your accusations that the Apostles Paul is a false prophet. I suggest you heed the words and scriptures of the Apostle Peter here...
  • 2 PETER 3:15-17 15, And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; 16, As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17, You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
You be careful now.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
You post scripture but there is no scripture that you have posted anywhere in this thread that supports your accusations that the Apostles Paul is a false prophet. I suggest you heed the words and scriptures of the Apostle Peter here...
  • 2 PETER 3:15-17 15, And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; 16, As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17, You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
You be careful now.
It is not "Scripture" that calls out Paul specifically except that those that annul the least of the Law and the prophets, will be called "least" (Mt 5:19) and as Paul proclaims to the "foremost" sinner, he would be the foremost of small, that being least, and Paul's name means "small". Otherwise, it is Paul's false prophecy that calls himself out as a false prophet. Because of Paul, you think you will not sleep/die, whereas, "everybody will die for their own iniquity" (Jeremiah 31:30). For some, they will die but be raised up at start of the millennium (Revelation 20:4), for the rest that die, they will be raised up at the last judgment, to be judged according to their deeds (Rev 20:4 &12).
 

Bthoth

*banned*
You post scripture but there is no scripture that you have posted anywhere in this thread that supports your accusations that the Apostles Paul is a false prophet. I suggest you heed the words and scriptures of the Apostle Peter here...
  • 2 PETER 3:15-17 15, And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; 16, As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17, You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
You be careful now.
There is no salvation for souls that force a religion upon another.

Or try to use the material to impose guilt.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
There is no salvation for souls that force a religion upon another. Or try to use the material to impose guilt.
If you feel guilty from the scriptures that are shared with you that may be in disagreement with you that is between you and God. Jesus says in John 3:19-21 19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20, For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21, But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I personally appreciate torah far more than 'gospels' and in a coherence of both accept that jesus was reaffirming the wisdom of torah and the prophets. be nice, if christians realized that is what makes the bible work best.
Perhaps you have a misunderstanding. We should believe both the old and new testament scriptures. The new testament scriptures come from the old testament scriptures. Together they make up the Word of God which were written by man inspired by Gods Spirit to give to mankind as Gods inspired Word.
 

Bthoth

*banned*
If you feel guilty from the scriptures that are shared with you that may be in disagreement with you that is between you and God. Jesus says in John 3:19-21 19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20, For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21, But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.


Bthoth said:
There is no salvation for souls that force a religion upon another. Or try to use the material to impose guilt.


Thanks for confirming:

20, For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

To force and use guilt is evil.................. bad deeds!
 

Bthoth

*banned*
Perhaps you have a misunderstanding.
I appreciate the dialogue.
We should believe both the old and new testament scriptures.
You can believe as you like.
The new testament scriptures come from the old testament scriptures.
Completely different time periods. A whole bunch of differences between the books.
Together they make up the Word of God which were written by man inspired by Gods Spirit to give to mankind as Gods inspired Word.
All words are man made...................

And the bible is made from a few different languages and a bunch of different writers.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Bthoth said:
There is no salvation for souls that force a religion upon another. Or try to use the material to impose guilt.

Thanks for confirming:

20, For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

To force and use guilt is evil.................. bad deeds!
As posted earlier if you feel guilty or condemned from the scriptures that are shared with you that are in disagreement with you that is between you and God. Jesus says in John 3:19-21 19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20, For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21, But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the dialogue.

You can believe as you like.

Completely different time periods. A whole bunch of differences between the books.

All words are man made...................

And the bible is made from a few different languages and a bunch of different writers.
Please forgive me but I do not believe you and have already shown why from the scriptures that have been shared with you. Thanks for sharing your view though.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
I personally appreciate torah far more than 'gospels' and in a coherence of both accept that jesus was reaffirming the wisdom of torah and the prophets. be nice, if christians realized that is what makes the bible work best.
Perhaps you have a misunderstanding. We should believe both the old and new testament scriptures. The new testament scriptures come from the old testament scriptures. Together they make up the Word of God which were written by man inspired by Gods Spirit to give to mankind as Gods inspired Word.

I like the Jewish Bible more than the NT as well .. way more fun to read. That the Christians decided to use the Jewish Bible as a backdrop on which to paste their stories doesn't mean the two books are connected .. or are referring to the same God(s) .. and certainly Judaism does not think so .. and certainly does not believe that their Bible is 100% inspired .. and certainly not by the same God.

The idea that the entire Bible is 100% inspired by some spirit is demonstrably false - not believed by any of the mainstream Christian denominations Orthodox - Catholic - Protestant .. only the fundamentalist cults hold this preposterously false Pagan ideology.

Angel will now demonstrate that the 100% inspired claim is false - by telling us whether to kill the child for the sins of the Father .. or to let the child live and let each be punished for their own sin.

Which action is directed by this mystery spirit sent from the God who's name you don't know Angel .. ?
 

Bthoth

*banned*
I like the Jewish Bible more than the NT as well .. way more fun to read.
I read the material to learn. Not much entertainment in the studying of material that affects so many people.
That the Christians decided to use the Jewish Bible as a backdrop on which to paste their stories doesn't mean the two books are connected .. or are referring to the same God(s)
I understand that point.
.. and certainly Judaism does not think so .
That line is suspect. A religion does not 'think' and the book most definitely does not think.
. and certainly does not believe that their Bible is 100% inspired .. and certainly not by the same God.
Best I can see, the bible was written by folk that observed the OT.
The idea that the entire Bible is 100% inspired by some spirit is demonstrably false -
Just like most religious material.
not believed by any of the mainstream Christian denominations Orthodox - Catholic - Protestant .. only the fundamentalist cults hold this preposterously false Pagan ideology.
Never observed bible's's's as pagan before.
Angel will now demonstrate that the 100% inspired claim is false - by telling us whether to kill the child for the sins of the Father .. or to let the child live and let each be punished for their own sin.
Which angel?
Which action is directed by this mystery spirit sent from the God who's name you don't know Angel .. ?

What?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I like the Jewish Bible more than the NT as well .. way more fun to read. That the Christians decided to use the Jewish Bible as a backdrop on which to paste their stories doesn't mean the two books are connected .. or are referring to the same God(s) .. and certainly Judaism does not think so .. and certainly does not believe that their Bible is 100% inspired .. and certainly not by the same God.

The idea that the entire Bible is 100% inspired by some spirit is demonstrably false - not believed by any of the mainstream Christian denominations Orthodox - Catholic - Protestant .. only the fundamentalist cults hold this preposterously false Pagan ideology.

Angel will now demonstrate that the 100% inspired claim is false - by telling us whether to kill the child for the sins of the Father .. or to let the child live and let each be punished for their own sin.

Which action is directed by this mystery spirit sent from the God who's name you don't know Angel .. ?
Yes the entire bible is inspired by God. 2 Timothy 3:16 16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Yes the new testament comes from the old testament scriptures. Yes there are many Christian religions in fulfillment of Matthew 24:24 that teach pagan traditions that lead their followers to break the commandments of God. The bible does not teach is to keep the children for the sins of the fathers.

EZEKIEL 18:20 [20] The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

I think this and other scriptures were already posted to you sometime ago. Did you forget?
 
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Sargonski

Well-Known Member
I read the material to learn. Not much entertainment in the studying of material that affects so many people.

I understand that point.

That line is suspect. A religion does not 'think' and the book most definitely does not think.

Best I can see, the bible was written by folk that observed the OT.

Just like most religious material.

Never observed bible's's's as pagan before.

Which angel?


What?

Angel is the other person in this 3 way convo :) Judaism believes portions are inspired.. but books like Chronicals .. Kings .. Proverbs .. Psalms .. are not meant to be inspired .. Psalms for example "Songs" .. were literally songs that were sung in the Temple .. the authors of which are often named .. David being credited with many. . The Wisdom of Solomon .. Chronicals is just listing genealogy for the most part .. Kings Chronicals the History of the Israelites. Now . interspersed in the stories in Kings you will have what Orthodox Jews might consider inspired .. but it is simply not believed that 100% of the Talmud was penned by God .. Judaism does not require this nonsensical belief to be true .. and it would be an insult to Jewish intelligence to make that claim generally .. None but the Fundamentalist Cults in Christianity believe 100% inerrancy .. and if we are talking on the theological/Academic level .. well . NO > no no no .. not in any of the "Serious circles"

Who said the Bible was Pagan ? -- and that was for Angel in any case. To believe that a God named Jealousy said Stone the Adultress and the Idolater - kill them and their Children . ("Exodus 34:14" ) that a God named YHWH said .. kill the Idolater but let the Children Live .. and that a God named Jesus said Let ye who is without sin cast the first rock .. is to believe in 3 different Gods.

Just as an aside on Paganism though .. the Israelites were raging Pagans .. so although I did not claim this previously .. we could certainly say that portions of the Bible are Pagan .. the definition of Pagan being the belief in the existence of more than one God.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Yes the entire bible is inspired by God. 2 Timothy 3:16 16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Yes the new testament comes from the old testament scriptures. Yes there are many Christian religions in fulfillment of Matthew 24:24 that teach pagan traditions that lead their followers to break the commandments of God. The bible does not teach is to keep the children for the sins of the fathers.

EZEKIEL 18:20 [20] The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

I think this and other scriptures were already posted to you sometime ago. Did you forget?
quoting from Psudepigrappha "Pious Fraud" a text that purports itself to be written by Paul but is not .. does not help your case.

You have failed to give the name of the God you are referring to ? and be sure to tell us what this God wants done with the Adulterer.

The God named Jealousy tells us to kill the child of the Idolater .. need a decision friend .. we have caught the offender and have his family in custody .. do we the deree of Lord Jealousy .. or do we follow the decree of this other other God .. presumably YHWH ..

Lord Jealousy says to kill the Adulterous whore - Lord YHWH concurs - Do we follow the advise of these Gods .. or would you like to follow another God .. by name Jesus .. and let the Girl live. Islam has made its choice .. Going with God YHWH ..

Which God do you chose ?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Angel is the other person in this 3 way convo :) Judaism believes portions are inspired.. but books like Chronicals .. Kings .. Proverbs .. Psalms .. are not meant to be inspired .. Psalms for example "Songs" .. were literally songs that were sung in the Temple .. the authors of which are often named .. David being credited with many. . The Wisdom of Solomon .. Chronicals is just listing genealogy for the most part .. Kings Chronicals the History of the Israelites. Now . interspersed in the stories in Kings you will have what Orthodox Jews might consider inspired .. but it is simply not believed that 100% of the Talmud was penned by God .. Judaism does not require this nonsensical belief to be true .. and it would be an insult to Jewish intelligence to make that claim generally .. None but the Fundamentalist Cults in Christianity believe 100% inerrancy .. and if we are talking on the theological/Academic level .. well . NO > no no no .. not in any of the "Serious circles"

Who said the Bible was Pagan ? -- and that was for Angel in any case. To believe that a God named Jealousy said Stone the Adultress and the Idolater - kill them and their Children . ("Exodus 34:14" ) that a God named YHWH said .. kill the Idolater but let the Children Live .. and that a God named Jesus said Let ye who is without sin cast the first rock .. is to believe in 3 different Gods.

Just as an aside on Paganism though .. the Israelites were raging Pagans .. so although I did not claim this previously .. we could certainly say that portions of the Bible are Pagan .. the definition of Pagan being the belief in the existence of more than one God.
Goodness this post is simply untruthful nonsense. So you are saying that the Hebrew bible is not scripture now and the Jews also got it wrong? Please forgive me but I do not believe the nonsense you post here.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
quoting from Psudepigrappha "Pious Fraud" a text that purports itself to be written by Paul but is not .. does not help your case.

You have failed to give the name of the God you are referring to ? and be sure to tell us what this God wants done with the Adulterer.

The God named Jealousy tells us to kill the child of the Idolater .. need a decision friend .. we have caught the offender and have his family in custody .. do we the deree of Lord Jealousy .. or do we follow the decree of this other other God .. presumably YHWH ..

Lord Jealousy says to kill the Adulterous whore - Lord YHWH concurs - Do we follow the advise of these Gods .. or would you like to follow another God .. by name Jesus .. and let the Girl live. Islam has made its choice .. Going with God YHWH ..

Which God do you chose ?
DITTO please see my previous response to you. I do not believe your nonsense. I prefer the scriptures that are in disagreement with you.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Goodness this post is simply untruthful nonsense. So you are saying that the Hebrew bible is not not scripture now and the Jews also got it wrong? Please forgive me but I do not believe the nonsense you post here.

I posted nothing untruthful - Did not say the Jewish Bible is not Sripture - Did not say the Jews got it wrong. Contratulations on 3 falsehoods .. putting words in the mouth of your debate opponent just like you put words in the mouth of our Lord.

I have seen the phenominon of "lying for Jesus" is common among fundamentalist cult adherents .. What is your excuse for these falsehoods ?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
DITTO please see my previous response to you. I do not believe your nonsense. I prefer the scriptures that are in disagreement with you.

You are welcome to call the word of God in the Bible nonsense if you like .. but why are you attributing this nonsense to me instead of the spirit who you claim is responsible for scripture ??. The scripture from Ezekiel you prefer does not disagree with me ? The scripture you prefer disagrees with the command of the God in the Bible named Jealousy.

You also failed to tell us the name of the God who's scripture you prefer in the case the Adulterous woman. Lord Jealousy says to kill the Adulterous woman - Lord YHWH concurs - Do we follow the advise of these Gods .. or would you like to follow another God .. by name Jesus .. and let the Girl live. Islam has made its choice .. Going with God YHWH ..

Which God do you chose and what is your rational for rejection of the commands of the other God's mentioned in the Bible.
 
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