Which prophets do Baha'I's recognize?

[Ori]

I would like a list, if possible.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings, Orich!

There is no "short list" of Divine Messengers. Who are basically those who found the great religions. And as we recognize all the great religions as legitimate and of God, all these Founders are definitely on the list!

So a partial list--those we're sure of--would include Abraham, Krishna, Noah, Hud, Salih, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah. The Founder of the Sabaean Faith also belongs on the list, but His name has already been forgotten.

And the Baha'i scriptures also assert that there have been many other Messengers in the past, now also lost to history.

There will always be more Messengers, (IOW, Divine Revelation will never end), and our scriptures also state that the next won't come until after at least a thousand years (500-1,000 years being the typical interval between Messengers).

I hope this helps!

Best,

Bruce

 

[john313]

Lao Tzu?

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi!

Lao Tzu?

As I understand it, no. He would either be considered a secular philosopher like Confucius, or derivative of another religion (probably Buddhism).

Regards!

Bruce

 

[Lloyd]

Sadly Lao Tzu is merely considered to just be a really wise philosopher. I'm a big fan of him so I was kind of hoping for a fairly high position for him within the Baha'i faith. Nonetheless, I understand why he doesn't quite meet the criteria to be a manifestation of God.

I'm pretty sure that John the Baptist was the founder of the Sabeans and I know that he's definitely recognized by Baha'is.

 

[Ezzedean]

Your scriptures recognize Muhammed as a prophet, and Muhammed said there will be no other prophets after him, and anyone who claims to be a prophet after him is false. I dont think you can follow Bahai faith if you believe Muhammed was a prophet, because it goes against what was said during his time.

Just my opinion
Salam
Ezzedean Fadel

 

[mankind_iz_one]

I dont think you can follow Bahai faith if you believe Muhammed was a prophet

Okay, but our earliest members were Shi'i and Sunni Muslim, and a large number of them, including many who were full-time students of Islamic religious thought, were able to meet the Bab and Baha'u'llah in Person. They did not see any conflict in Islamic teaching about the meaning of "the Seal of the Prophets" and belief in a new religion. On the contrary, it would seem they found overwhelming evidence that the Babi-Baha'i Faith was, in fact, from God.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Your scriptures recognize Muhammed as a prophet, and Muhammed said there will be no other prophets after him, and anyone who claims to be a prophet after him is false. I dont think you can follow Bahai faith if you believe Muhammed was a prophet..../QUOTE]

Sorry, Ezzedean, but you're very mistaken!

We accept what Muhammad said, and we are very much Baha'is! No conflict whatever.

What you're overlooking is that there are TWO Arabic words both of which translate into "prophet" in English.

The first is "nabi," which means a minor prophet such as Ezekiel or Micah.

And the second is "Ras'ul"; this means a major Divine Messenger who founds a new stage in religion.

And in the Qur'an, Muhammad's statement says He is the Seal of the nabi, NOT of the Ras'ul. Thus, He's the Seal of the minor prophets and does not end the succession of Divine Messengers!

Also, from a different tack, the Baha'i scriptures point out that spiritually, EVERY Messenger is both the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, and the Seal. So this is just one of many titles that apply to all of Them but which shouldn't be taken literally as their symbolism is spiritual.

Best!

Bruce

 

[Ezzedean]

"What you're overlooking is that there are TWO Arabic words both of which translate into "prophet" in English.

The first is "nabi," which means a minor prophet such as Ezekiel or Micah.

And the second is "Ras'ul"; this means a major Divine Messenger who founds a new stage in religion."


When we pray there is a specific point in prayer where we say " Ashedu ilahi la ilallah- Ashadu a Muhammed a RASUL allah. (Allah is one and and Muhammed is his messanger) This is the way God taught us to pray, and how he wants it said. From my understanding, Nabi is when God has become a part of you... for example Jesus/Moses. Rasul is used for Muhammed five times a day in prayer.

"Also, from a different tack, the Baha'i scriptures point out that spiritually, EVERY Messenger is both the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, and the Seal. So this is just one of many titles that apply to all of Them but which shouldn't be taken literally as their symbolism is spiritual."

Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where it states that Jesus, or Moses or any other prophet is the last and final prophet? Can you show me anywhere in the Quran where it makes such statements of other prophets also? Your scriptures might say that this is the case, but no other scriptures before this can clarify this statement.

I was friends with a follower of the Bahai faith in highschool, and he was a very good guy, humble and polite, so even though I dont agree with some of the teachings, I respect the way you carry yourselves in public and in private.

Salam
Ezzedean Fadel

 

[Lloyd]

"Also, from a different tack, the Baha'i scriptures point out that spiritually, EVERY Messenger is both the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, and the Seal. So this is just one of many titles that apply to all of Them but which shouldn't be taken literally as their symbolism is spiritual."

Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where it states that Jesus, or Moses or any other prophet is the last and final prophet? Can you show me anywhere in the Quran where it makes such statements of other prophets also? Your scriptures might say that this is the case, but no other scriptures before this can clarify this statement.

With progressive revelation, things will be reiterated and clarified, but other times certain teachings will be entirely new. The passage being referred to is from the Book of Certitude, which is full of concepts and interpretations of scripture unique to the Baha'i faith. For example, nobody will ever find a passage in the Bible or the Qur'an that says the manifestations of God are "perfectly polished mirrors" reflecting the light of God, but most Baha'is would agree that the Gospels make a whole lot more sense after learning that.

Anyway, the point I originally wanted to make was that Baha'u'llah was explaining why revelation is never final, that God will always send prophets to educate humanity. For Jesus to say that he was the Alpha and the Omega was a statement of spiritual not necessarily temporal significance. What exactly it means to be the first and the last is a mystery to me.

I don't know if I'm getting at what you're trying to point out. I'm just writing what I think is pertinent.

 

[andyjamal]

Revelation 22:13 - "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

Surah 2:136 - "Say: We believe in Allah and that which had been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and that which was given to Musa and Isa, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit."

 

[Ezzedean]

The surah you have showed doesnt state the fact that these prophets were the last prophets of God. I know the Quran talks about these prophets, I want to see where it makes mention to them being the final prophets or the seal. As for Revelations 22:13..... So when Jesus says he is the first and the last, does this mean Moses or anyone before him never existed? Jesus is the king of the Jews, the first.... and he will come back down and prove this to the world, the last. When he came to the Jews it was the beginning, and when he comes back it will be the end for all of us.

Salam
Ezzedean Fadel

 

[Ezzedean]

Also I realize earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there were two kinds of prophets, nabi and rasul, but yet in this verse you show me from the Quran it clealry states there is no difference between them wheater it be Musa (Moses) or Isa (Jesus) or even Ishmail. You've proven my point for me.

Salam
Ezzedean

 

[andyjamal]

The surah you have showed doesnt state the fact that these prophets were the last prophets of God. I know the Quran talks about these prophets, I want to see where it makes mention to them being the final prophets or the seal. As for Revelations 22:13..... So when Jesus says he is the first and the last, does this mean Moses or anyone before him never existed? Jesus is the king of the Jews, the first.... and he will come back down and prove this to the world, the last. When he came to the Jews it was the beginning, and when he comes back it will be the end for all of us.

We know that Jesus was not saying that He is the "only", because He refers to the Greek alphabet which contains many letters. Therefore, we can conclude that He is telling us that the Spirit manifested in Him is the same Spirit that is manifested in all the Prophets; they are one. Thus He is the last Prophet and the first as are all the Prophets, but this does not mean that His Appearance at that time was the first or will be the last.

Muhhamed makes no distinction between His revelation and Christ's and therefore affirms that all the Prophets are one, the first and the last. Yet the Appearance of the divine Spirit manifested in Muhhamed is not necessarily the first or the last.

 

[andyjamal]

Also I realize earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there were two kinds of prophets, nabi and rasul, but yet in this verse you show me from the Quran it clealry states there is no difference between them wheater it be Musa (Moses) or Isa (Jesus) or even Ishmail. You've proven my point for me.

Muhhamed clearly states that there is no distinction between what was revealed to the prophets. Yet each prophet has been assigned only a certain measure to be revealed to mankind according to the Will of God and mankind's capacity to recieve it. Some have come with the Book and the Law, these we refer to as the major Prophets; and, others have come to reiterate what was previously revealed and strengthen the hearts of men in their obedience, these we refer to as the minor prophets.

 

[arthra]

There's an article of "progessive revelation" that may help explain the Baha'i concept:

http://bahai-library.com/encyclopedia/revelation.html

There's also an article about the Ages and Cycles we Baha'is recognize:

http://bahai-library.com/encyclopedia/agescycl.html

The only addition to the list of Prophets is that of Adam... The Qur'an also recognized Adam.

 

[Popeyesays]

Muhammed referred to Himself as the "Seal of the Prophets". He used the word Khataam which best means "signet" as a ring seal or a seal on a document. This does not mean "Khatim" or "final".
A signet seal autthenticates, guarantees, warrants or affirms, and this is exactly what Muhammed did He authenticated all the Prophets before Him, He warranted Their authority, He guarantees Their Message, He affirms Their truth.

None of that means "no more Prophets".

Regards,
Scott

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

I realize earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there were two kinds of prophets, nabi and rasul, but yet in this verse you show me from the Quran it clealry states there is no difference between them wheater it be Musa (Moses) or Isa (Jesus) or even Ishmail.

What you should remember is that BOTH are true because Divine Messengers have a dual station!

In one sense, They are indeed all One and the same!

But in the other, each is unique and different, and shines with a greater or lesser light.

So the fact that They are both the same and different is no problem whatever for us.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Yaqinud Din]

In Arabic literature, 'Khatama' is used to indicate 'completion', 'conclusion', 'finality' or to put it simply - termination of an affair/event/object/verb. This is the meaning in which renowned Arabic scholars/litterateurs have used this word.

The views of famous Arabic litterateurs on this word are quoted below:

A. In his famous work 'Qamoos-e-Arabi', among the best and reliable lexicons of the Arabic language, Adrodalin says:

1. Khatama - 'He sealed, sign or stamp, to design, to make a sign. For example Khatama Shahadatan - He sealed the witness.
   
   Or as the Quran says - 'Allah has set a seal upon their hearts…' (Surah Baqarah, verse 7).
2. Khaatama. For instance, 'Khaatama Shai'in' means 'the end of thing' or Khaatama Quran - 'He completed the Quran'
3. Khataama - A seal made up of sticky mud which is impressed upon a writing or a thing.
4. Khaatim - Khaatam - The last one in a gathering/assembly of people E.g. Khaatimun Nabi'een - Last one of the Prophets or Khateemul Anbiya - Last one of the Prophets i.e. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.).
   
   (Please not that the above examples have been advanced by the author of Qamoos and not by me.)
5. Khatam also refers to the ring which is employed for sealing and for signing.
6. Makhtum - Sealed one or signed one
   (Qamoos-e-Arabi - English, page 702 - 703)

B. Likewise, another leading authority in Arabic literature - Allamah Ibne Manzur in his magnum opus - Lisanul Arab unravels the meaning of Khatama.

1. Khatama - Seal
2. Makhtum - Sealed or locked

From the viewpoint of Arabic literature - Khatama and Tab'a share the same meaning i.e. sealed and there is no room for anything new to enter it.

For e.g. 'Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the prophets.' (Surah Ahzab, verse 40)

Allamah Ibne Manzur sheds light on the evolution of the word Khaatam into 'ring', a meaning that finds greater acceptance among the Bahais and Qadianis. In the past, the seal (khaatam) was employed to emboss an authority's acknowledgement of official documents. Since this 'embossing' was done through an imprint of the ring, which was often found on the finger of the official/authority, the embossing came to mean 'a ring' or 'an adornment'.

C. Raghib Isfahani, another noted litterateur, in his celebrated work - 'Al-Mufradaat' outlines the meaning of this word.

1. Khaatam - For e.g. Khaatamal Quran intehaayatan ilaa akherehi. 'Completing a reading of the Quran till its end.'
2. Khaatamun Nabiyyin - Last of the Prophets.

D. Leading Arabic litterateur, Fakhruddin Turaihi in 'Majmaul Bahrain' explains the meaning of Khaatamun Nabiyyin in Surah Ahzab, verse 40:

'Muhammad (s.a.w.) is the last prophet and there is prophet after him.'

For e.g. - Man khaatamun lahu beqiyaamil lail summa maata falahul jannat
'One who stands in worship till the end of the night and then passes away, then Paradise is for him.'

The references I have cited above have been compiled by litterateurs across different centuries. So the meaning of 'Khatama' hasn't really evolved to come to mean 'an adornment'. These references have been drawn from a mix of Ahle Sunnah and Shia sources, so there is unanimity across the primary Islamic sects about the meaning of 'Khatme Nabuwwat', which is that Muhammad (s.a.w.) is the last Prophet to be raised by Allah.

To adopt an interpretation of a word different from its oft-used meaning begs a deep insight in the language, an intelligent rationale and an endorsement from the Sunnah. Lets take the first premise - when Bahais talk of a different interpretation for 'Khatama' from the literal one, are they saying it is based on a study or research into Arabic literature that suggests that adopting the metaphorical meaning of Khatama (i.e. adornment) is a preferable option to taking the more common and obvious literal interpretation of seal, final, last? If they are, then I eagerly await to see a piece of research that rivals the works of Ibne Manzur and Raghib.

As a matter of fact 'Khatam' means final in Persian, Urdu and even Hindi. These languages have undoubtedly borrowed the word from Arabic, but chose the more popular and widely prevalent literal meaning over its vague and uncommon metaphorical counterpart. This is expected, because when words transcend across languages, then it is the most commonly employed meaning that gains currency and not its metaphorical implication. From the perspective of our discussion, it only serves to reinforce that Khatama's most popular interpretations are seal, final, last and not adornment.

In terms of a rationale, there is no reason to suggest that Allah meant it in a meaning different than seal, final, last. Even if for argument's sake one adopts the metaphorical meaning of adornment, it does not close the door on adopting the literal meaning of seal, final, last. In terms of an endorsement from the Sunnah, this metaphorical interpretation is conspicuous by its absence, unless one goes about interpreting the scores of traditions that assert Khatamiyyat in a manner to support one's conclusion, in this case, adornment. If anything, the Quran and Sunnah have eulogised Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) as the best of Prophets, Islam as the best of nations and Muslims as the best of people. And if Allah has saved the best for the last, then you do have the last Prophet and the 'adornment' of Prophets in the persona of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). In my view, the Muslims have reason to thank the Bahais and Qadianis for giving 'Khatamun Nabiyyin' a totally new dimension!

 

[Smoke]

I'm pretty sure that John the Baptist was the founder of the Sabeans and I know that he's definitely recognized by Baha'is.

I'm not so sure he was the founder of the Sabeans, but I'm pretty sure the Sabeans think he was.