Which day?

[wmam]

So what your telling me is that everything that is said in the Bible isn't meant for anyone other than those it was said to?

I disagree with that.........

I also disagree with us not following the Feast and Holy Day's as set forth by Yahweh. I pretty much believe that we are still needing to do the Law with the exception of the sacrificial laws. Look at the Disciples of Yahshua as well as Paul and those that He spoke to. Most if not all of them followed the Law still and observed the Feast and Holy Day's. I beginning to think that this pretty much was the norm up until the Greek and Roman beliefs somehow got intertwined with the original thought or at least as it is shown to us through the scriptures.

 

[Aqualung]

So what your telling me is that everything that is said in the Bible isn't meant for anyone other than those it was said to?

Not everything, no. But if a prophet of the Lord says that I no longer need to follow those sorts of rituals, I think I should do what he says.

Are you a desciple of yeshua?

 

[wmam]

Not everything, no. But if a prophet of the Lord says that I no longer need to follow those sorts of rituals, I think I should do what he says.

Can you give me scripture as to where it is said that we are not to do what was commanded to all for ever and ever?

Are you a desciple of yeshua?

No.

 

[Aqualung]

Well, Paul frequently speaks that we don't need to worry about whether or not we are circumcised, because by accepting christ our hearts get "circumsised." Acts 15 speaks of this, as does 1 Cor. 7:19, just to name a couple. These are instances of, to quote you, "where it is said that we are not to do what was commanded to all for ever and ever?" Galatians Chpt 2:16 says we are not justified by the law anymore, but are now justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

 

[wmam]

Well, Paul frequently speaks that we don't need to worry about whether or not we are circumcised, because by accepting christ our hearts get "circumsised." Acts 15 speaks of this, as does 1 Cor. 7:19, just to name a couple.

I guess I would rather stick to what Yahweh commanded. Until He says otherwise it would be better than to take the word or words of others many years later. Specifically Gen. 17:10-14 . I kinda have trouble at this point and time with a lot of what Paul is supposed to have written. I am not sure if it is him personally I have a problem with or the translation. I am in research on this at this point and time. I am where you might say that I find it hard to take heed to someone that seem to differ with what was either commanded by Yahweh or was taught by Yahshua. Let alone what the Disciples followed after the Resurrection.

Galatians Chpt 2:16 says we are not justified by the law anymore, but are now justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

O.k. ......... And where does this tell me that we are not to keep the Law anymore? I believe that if you are truly saved and have the spirit then you would be doing the works of the Law anyway. For Faith without Works is dead. We still are to obey Yahweh with His Commandments, Statutes and Judgements. This shows our Faith more than anything. It shows we love Him back that we would obey Him. To just say that we believe and do nothing wouldn't show much in my own opinion. How can we abide by what mere mortal man has written in trying to explain when in reality it was to ease the pain of obedience. Anything to make it easy on one's self and or to subvert its meaning into something that would be of some gain to that one. Again ........ only my own personal beliefs and or opinions.

I mean no disrespect to you or anyone here by what I type. It is just the way that I view things and respect fully the ideas and beliefs of others. I mean not to pick any fights or to argue any facts or fictions but rather discern the information at hand through this portal to gain better understandings and wisdoms. I thank you Aqualung and others for furthering me towards that goal.

 

[Aqualung]

I guess I would rather stick to what Yahweh commanded.

So you won't be following the ordinances (like following the passoever) that Moses commanded? Or do you just pick and choose which prophets to follow?

Until He says otherwise it would be better than to take the word or words of others many years later.

Ummm... he did say otherwise. that's what prophets are for.

Specifically Gen. 17:10-14 .

I'm not a jew. I"m not a "man child amoung [them]" why should I follow that commandemt?

O.k. ......... And where does this tell me that we are not to keep the Law anymore?

The OT law was to justify/save the jews. I don't need that nayumore, because I have christ.

I believe that if you are truly saved and have the spirit then you would be doing the works of the Law anyway. For Faith without Works is dead.

We are called to higher works now. We are called to preach the gospel, baptise, love your neighbor, keep the sabbath day holy, fellowship in a godly manner, etc. Not just make sacrifices.

I mean no disrespect to you or anyone here by what I type. It is just the way that I view things and respect fully the ideas and beliefs of others. I mean not to pick any fights or to argue any facts or fictions but rather discern the information at hand through this portal to gain better understandings and wisdoms. I thank you Aqualung and others for furthering me towards that goal.

Oh don't worry. I didn't take offense. this is a rather interesting and difficult converstaion. It really makes me think.

 

[wmam]

So you won't be following the ordinances (like following the passoever) that Moses commanded? Or do you just pick and choose which prophets to follow?

Yes I believe we should follow them and I choose to follow the Commandments of Yahweh and the Teachings of Yahshua. I always am looking out for false prophets that twist and subvert the Word. I believe that we have that right of choice to pick and believe on that which we choose as long as it is in the True and Inspired Word of Yahweh.

Ummm... he did say otherwise. that's what prophets are for.

Where did Yahweh say anything about Paul and him being a true and perfect prophet? Again I say that I am not sure whether I have the problem with Paul personaly or that of the translations. One thing is sure is that I have a problem with some of what seems to have been written by him as it is read today. It doesn't seem to match up with the Word of Yahweh. Yahweh gave us the Law and man cannot take it away.

I'm not a jew. I"m not a "man child amoung [them]" why should I follow that commandemt?

The best way I know to explain this is by saying that if you have converted your thoughts, feelings and beliefs over to that which is in line with the correct way of being as far as being as much as Yahweh as possible, then you are no longer considered a Gentile. You would be then "with" them but still be considered a stranger to them because you might not be of the blood with them but only in thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

The OT law was to justify/save the jews. I don't need that nayumore, because I have christ.

We are called to higher works now. We are called to preach the gospel, baptise, love your neighbor, keep the sabbath day holy, fellowship in a godly manner, etc. Not just make sacrifices.

I disagree......... The OT Law was meant for all that believed on Yahweh as a guide to live and a way to worship. These higher works you claim are in the OT Law. Animal sacrifices were done away with by Yahweh through the sacrifice of his Son, Yahshua, the Annointed. You are correct by the scripture that states that Faith is what Justify's us but to say that you just have Faith, again, is not enough. You must do the Law to show thy works to uphold thy Faith.

Oh don't worry. I didn't take offense. this is a rather interesting and difficult converstaion. It really makes me think.

Thats what it is meant to do. Make us think and study in the Word.

 

[Aqualung]

Yes I believe we should follow them and I choose to follow the Commandments of Yahweh and the Teachings of Yahshua. I always am looking out for false prophets that twist and subvert the Word. I believe that we have that right of choice to pick and believe on that which we choose as long as it is in the True and Inspired Word of Yahweh.

Ah. At first you said, "what Yahweh says." Now you're changing that include, "what Yahweh says to his prophets, unless that prophet happens to be Paul." You are picking and choosing.

Where did Yahweh say anything about Paul and him being a true and perfect prophet?

No prophet is completely true and perfect. But they all speak God's word.

Again I say that I am not sure whether I have the problem with Paul personaly or that of the translations. One thing is sure is that I have a problem with some of what seems to have been written by him as it is read today. It doesn't seem to match up with the Word of Yahweh. Yahweh gave us the Law and man cannot take it away.

We should discuss this. It sounds interesting.

The best way I know to explain this is by saying that if you have converted your thoughts, feelings and beliefs over to that which is in line with the correct way of being as far as being as much as Yahweh as possible, then you are no longer considered a Gentile. You would be then "with" them but still be considered a stranger to them because you might not be of the blood with them but only in thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

See though, now you're changing the commandment. That was a commandment given specificallyto man children of Jews or foreigners living in their lands. I am neither. You CANNOT change God's word like that.

I disagree......... The OT Law was meant for all that believed on Yahweh as a guide to live and a way to worship. These higher works you claim are in the OT Law. Animal sacrifices were done away with by Yahweh through the sacrifice of his Son, Yahshua, the Annointed. You are correct by the scripture that states that Faith is what Justify's us but to say that you just have Faith, again, is not enough. You must do the Law to show thy works to uphold thy Faith.

the OT law was meant for all who beleived in Yahweh but could not follow the higher law that people like Abraham or Adam followed. If the OT law was really the way to God, don't you think he would have given that law to Abraham, instead of waiting until the Jews had heardened their hearts too much to follow that higher law?

 

[wmam]

Ah. At first you said, "what Yahweh says." Now you're changing that include, "what Yahweh says to his prophets, unless that prophet happens to be Paul." You are picking and choosing.

Yes maybe but I do have that right. Though I did say I was still looking into it through study.

No prophet is completely true and perfect. But they all speak God's word.

I disagree again..... Their are false prophets. They may speak YAHweh's words but in twisted fashion.

We should discuss this. It sounds interesting.

I am now looking that we need both the Law and Faith. Look at James 2:14-26.

See though, now you're changing the commandment. That was a commandment given specificallyto man children of Jews or foreigners living in their lands. I am neither. You CANNOT change God's word like that.

Oh so you don't see the significance of Romans 11:17?

the OT law was meant for all who beleived in Yahweh but could not follow the higher law that people like Abraham or Adam followed. If the OT law was really the way to God, don't you think he would have given that law to Abraham, instead of waiting until the Jews had heardened their hearts too much to follow that higher law?

You will have to explain where you are coming up with this "Higher Law". The Law is the Law and has been and always will be the Law as far as I can see.

 

[Aqualung]

I disagree again..... Their are false prophets. They may speak YAHweh's words but in twisted fashion.

Yes, true. Do you then think that Paul was a false prophet?

I am now looking that we need both the Law and Faith. Look at James 2:14-26.

That talks about works, not the Law. It mentions giving food to the poor. IT doesn't mention making sure you still follow the passover.

Oh so you don't see the significance of Romans 11:17?

I see it as us being able to recieve the blessings that God has for his chosen people. But I still see Christ as a fulfillment of the lower law, and that therefore we don't need to follow it.

You will have to explain where you are coming up with this "Higher Law". The Law is the Law and has been and always will be the Law as far as I can see.

REad Hebrews, epecially chapters 7-10. This talks about how christ supercedes the mosaic law. He is the new covenant. His blood was shed for us. We don't need the ordinances of the old covenant he made with the jews, because Jesus made a new covenant with us.

 

[wmam]

O.k. ....... I see we are becoming full circle here to one point.

Quickly though I will say that I am still not sure about my feelings on Paul and I will have to leave that as it is for now until I recieve further guidence.

As for the Law.............

I do have to say that I disagree with you completely as to the fact that we need both the Law and Faith. I also disagree with you on what the true meaning of the word "works" entails. Works is the doing of the Law. That is very plain and simple through out the NT. Yes we are to give to the poor and treat everyone as we would want them to treat us but that again is part of the Law.

We have to have Faith because we cannot be perfect in the Law but we need to do the Law to perfect thy Faith.

Question.......... What is a Saint to you?

 

[Aqualung]

A saint is pretty much a follow of christ.

 

[wmam]

Sorry almost forgot............ Hebrews chapter 7-10 has to do with which Laws were either changed or were done away with by YAHshua. He didn't do away with all of them but He did, through His Sacrifice, do away with or change some of them.

 

[wmam]

A saint is pretty much a follow of christ.

Just a follower?

 

[Aqualung]

yes. an actual follower. Not just someone who claims to follow Him but obviously doesn't.

 

[wmam]

yes. an actual follower. Not just someone who claims to follow Him but obviously doesn't.

So can we discuss this verse in Rev.?
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Aqualung]

Yeah, if you want. You'll have to state your position first, though, because that seems to go right along with what I said with saints are just followers of christ.

 

[wmam]

It also goes right along with what I said about also following the Law as well.

 

[Aqualung]

no it doesn't. Because it is no longer a commandement that I follow the mosaic law. OR else Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would not be saints, and I think they were better than the average follower of Mosaic Law.

 

[wmam]

I just looked up a link that shows the 613 Laws. Now if you take out those laws to do with sacrifice and offerings as well as those laws pertaining to the priesthood because there is only one Priest now and all law pertaing to the Temple because it is destroyed. ummmmmmmmm ........ have I left anything out? ........... other than those laws which through scripture it is plainly shown that YAHshua, or His sacrifice, either did away with them or changed them. Or maybe they are sort of put on hold until lets say the Temple is rebuilt and the Priesthood is re-established, i.e. the Levitical Priesthood as in the Kohanim, as well as Tithes cause there are no Levites to recieve them. As stated if you take those Laws out and look at the rest. What Law is so distastefull unless you are just not wanting to obey thy Father?

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htmhttp://http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm