Where's the Separation of Religion and State?

[Faithofchristian]

What? Which laws do you think are based on "Gods laws?"

Go read the laws of the United States and then read the laws of God. It's not to figure out which laws of God the laws of the United States are base on.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What is that, that a woman is to cover their head with?

Maybe a veil. I don't know.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Go read the laws of the United States and then read the laws of God. It's not to figure out which laws of God the laws of the United States are base on.

I have read them.

That's not an answer to the question.

Please give your example(s).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Go read the laws of the United States and then read the laws of God. It's not to figure out which laws of God the laws of the United States are base on.

Yes, let's. Compare and contrast:

Romans 13:1-5:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. 2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment 3 (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation, 4 for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be in fear, for it does not bear the sword in vain. It is God’s servant to administer retribution on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience.

US Constitution, Article 2, Section 4:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

How do you get from the Bible's "all authorities are instituted by God and we should be in subjection to them no matter what" to the Constitution's "if the authorities are bad enough, we should refuse to be in subjection to them?"

 

[Faithofchristian]

Maybe a veil. I don't know.

As for Christian women, Christ Jesus is the covering over their heads.

1 Corinthians 11:1-10--"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 because the woman to have power on her head because of the angels"

If you notice in verse 10, because of the angels, These angels are not the angels of God.
If they were, then why would a woman need to cover her head to protect herself from the angels of God.
These angels are the angels of Satan's.

And the cover which is over the woman's head is Christ Jesus. That gives the woman the power of Christ Jesus, because of the angels of Satans.


As well as the man is to have Christ Jesus in Remembrance over their heads

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As for Christian women, Christ Jesus is the covering over their heads.

Then Jesus is a hat! ... and therefore not allowed in the House.

Checkmate, anti-secularists!

 

[Faithofchristian]

Then Jesus is a hat! ... and therefore not allowed in the House.

Checkmate, anti-secularists!

That's because you do not know how to spiritually discerned the things that be of God
As it is written
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14

How's it feel knowing your fulfilling Prophecy that was given a little
over 2000 years ago.

You probably never thought you would see the day that Prophecy would come around to be fulfilled in your life time and not knowing that you would be one to fulfil Prophecy that was given a little over 2000 years ago.
Now isn't that amazing.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's because you do not know how to spiritually discerned the things that be of God
As it is written
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14

How's it feel knowing your fulfilling Prophecy that was given a little
over 2000 years ago.

You probably never thought you would see the day that Prophecy would come around to be fulfilled in your life time and not knowing that you would be one to fulfil Prophecy that was given a little over 2000 years ago.
Now isn't that amazing.

Was your failure to get the joke also prophesied?

 

[wandering peacefully]

Then maybe you should explain that to the Congress Muslim woman, who seeks to change the rule/law in Congress.

Seems shes the one that can not tell the difference between a hat and the hijab

Hijab is referred to by various names, some of the most common of which are a veil or a headscarf. Most Muslims who wear the covering call it a hijab (حجاب), an Arabic word meaning “cover.” However, there are various forms of hijab that are referred to by different names. While hijab is commonly associated with women, Muslim men also sometimes wear a head covering as a means of showing modesty. Additionally, Christian and Jewish women in some traditions wear a headscarf as a cultural practice or commitment to modesty or piety.https://arabsinamerica.unc.edu/identity/veiling/hijab/


She is merely showing piety and respect for God. You really shouldn't have a problem with that. Do you have any idea how many other rules have been changed.

Most importantly, a hijab is not a hat. It does not conceal any part of the face like a hat does. I assume that was the original intent of the "hat rule". Or was it in reverence to God? Do you know? Also, you keep calling her a "Muslim wanting to come here and change "our rules". She is a United States citizen with the same exact rights you have. She is one of us. That's what people just don't understand. There is no I, or them and us, there is only "we".

 

[Faithofchristian]

Hijab is referred to by various names, some of the most common of which are a veil or a headscarf. Most Muslims who wear the covering call it a hijab (حجاب), an Arabic word meaning “cover.” However, there are various forms of hijab that are referred to by different names. While hijab is commonly associated with women, Muslim men also sometimes wear a head covering as a means of showing modesty. Additionally, Christian and Jewish women in some traditions wear a headscarf as a cultural practice or commitment to modesty or piety.Women > Veiling > What is the Hijab and Why do Women Wear it? - Arabs in America


She is merely showing piety and respect for God. You really shouldn't have a problem with that. Do you have any idea how many other rules have been changed.

Most importantly, a hijab is not a hat. It does not conceal any part of the face like a hat does. I assume that was the original intent of the "hat rule". Or was it in reverence to God? Do you know? Also, you keep calling her a "Muslim wanting to come here and change "our rules". She is a United States citizen with the same exact rights you have. She is one of us. That's what people just don't understand. There is no I, or them and us, there is only "we".

If she was one of us, as you say, then she would have no problem conforming to our way of life, as does many other people who come here, had no problem conforming to our way of life.

You don't hear Germans or Russians or Mexicans or Japanese or Chinese and many other people that came from other countries to be here, you don't see them seeking to change our laws just to accommodate themselves.

So what's so special about her. Just because she's a Muslim she gets special attention. Is that it.

Many people here in the United States do not trust Muslims, after they had taken Americans as hostages and cut off their heads and destroyed New York City twin towers and afterwards Muslims went out in the streets of New York rejoicing the destruction of the twin towers,
And how about muslims yelling death to America.
And wonder why people here don't trust Muslims.
can't be serious.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Heaven IS religion and state.

 

[wandering peacefully]

If she was one of us, as you say, then she would have no problem conforming to our way of life, as does many other people who come here, had no problem conforming to our way of life.

You don't hear Germans or Russians or Mexicans or Japanese or Chinese and many other people that came from other countries to be here, you don't see them seeking to change our laws just to accommodate themselves.

So what's so special about her. Just because she's a Muslim she gets special attention. Is that it.

Many people here in the United States do not trust Muslims, after they had taken Americans as hostages and cut off their heads and destroyed New York City twin towers and afterwards Muslims went out in the streets of New York rejoicing the destruction of the twin towers,
And how about muslims yelling death to America.
And wonder why people here don't trust Muslims.
can't be serious.

All I can say about this is your projected way of life and morals and thinking is definitely not mine. Nor does it have any place in the "we" senererio.

There are bad people and those who cannot be trusted. By that is on a case by case basis and very rare in the US Muslim community and Muslim US citizens.

I believe you're anger and hate and mistrust is misplaced.

 

[Faithofchristian]

All I can say about this is your projected way of life and morals and thinking is definitely not mine. Nor does it have any place in the "we" senererio.

There are bad people and those who cannot be trusted. By that is on a case by case basis and very rare in the US Muslim community and Muslim US citizens.

I believe you're anger and hate and mistrust is misplaced.

Where did I ever say I was anger, Muslims have a long way to, to prove they can be trusted.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where did I ever say I was anger, Muslims have a long way to, to prove they can be trusted.

What?!

 

[Milton Platt]

I would prefer that you tell me how having a Christmas tree is not simply accomodating the beliefs of those who believe. No one said anyone would refuse to enter a building that does not have a tree.

Although I am an atheist, and I support the separation of church and state, I don’t get tied into knots over Christmas trees. I recognize that the trees are one of the many pagan rituals Christains have incorporated into the holiday, so it is amusing, if anything.

That being said, would those advocating for Christmas trees in public buildings also advocate for symbols of other religions being displayed in public buildings on their holidays? I only hear people advocating for Christian symbols, not religious symbols in general.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Although I am an atheist, and I support the separation of church and state, I don’t get tied into knots over Christmas trees. I recognize that the trees are one of the many pagan rituals Christains have incorporated into the holiday, so it is amusing, if anything.

That being said, would those advocating for Christmas trees in public buildings also advocate for symbols of other religions being displayed in public buildings on their holidays? I only hear people advocating for Christian symbols, not religious symbols in general.

I cannotspeak for others but I have no objection to other religious symbols being displayed. I believe "separation of church and state" means that the government should not endorse any one particular religion and there should not be an official state religion like there is in many other countries. It does not mean that religious symbols cannot be displayed on government property as long as all religions are treated equally.

 

[Milton Platt]

I cannotspeak for others but I have no objection to other religious symbols being displayed. I believe "separation of church and state" means that the government should not endorse any one particular religion and there should not be an official state religion like there is in many other countries. It does not mean that religious symbols cannot be displayed on government property as long as all religions are treated equally.

We essentially agree. I worry about the “slippery slope” concept. I think it better to simply avoid any entanglememt of government and religion at all. It just makes it easier going forward. What if a religion wishes to display somerhing another religion finds offensive?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

We essentially agree. I worry about the “slippery slope” concept. I think it better to simply avoid any entanglememt of government and religion at all. It just makes it easier going forward. What if a religion wishes to display somerhing another religion finds offensive?

Yes I agree except for one thing. When we ban all religions only the atheists win. And how is that fair?

 

[Milton Platt]

Yes I agree except for one thing. When we ban all religions only the atheists win. And how is that fair?

I did not say anything about banning religions. I only suggested they not display their symbols in public buildings. And I indicated that I wasn't personally too worked up over it anyway. Why would you deliberately twist my words?
And not all atheists insist on that, either. They generally insist on things like separation of church and state, oppose teaching religious concepts in science classes, among other things. You will find Atheists at rallies for freedom of religion, because that concept includes freedom from religion.
But not all atheists agree on any or all of those things.

To be an atheist, you need only have a lack of belief in a deity. Everything else is something else.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I did not say anything about banning religions. I only suggested they not display their symbols in public buildings. And I indicated that I wasn't personally too worked up over it anyway. Why would you deliberately twist my words?
And not all atheists insist on that, either. They generally insist on things like separation of church and state, oppose teaching religious concepts in science classes, among other things. You will find Atheists at rallies for freedom of religion, because that concept includes freedom from religion.
But not all atheists agree on any or all of those things.

To be an atheist, you need only have a lack of belief in a deity. Everything else is something else.

Did not mean to twist your words. I am saying only that separation of church and state means no official state religion. I am 100% for that. But separation does not mean that a few symbols cannot be displayed. No one is forced to accept any religion because of a Christmas tree or Star of David on a government building. And putting the 10 commandments on a court house wall is not saying there is a state religion that everyone must follow.