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Where would I *not* be considered a heretic?

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I hear you on that. I'm the heretic in most of my circles (not sure if I'm using it the same way you are?). I'm politically neutral, but I have friends on the Left who consider me Conservative, and ones on the Right who consider me Liberal. I'm the maverick at one of my jobs and the revolutionary at another. It's exhausting to have to represent the minority viewpoint all the time. I don't really have a place to rest. The best I get is to hang out here on RF with all the other heretics. ;)

As for your search, I'm not sure why you are seeking a religion if you are not willing to have a relationship with a spiritual Other.
Not with one that isn't impartial.
If you would really reject God if he came with a message, because it contradicted what you had already decided, then what kind of religion would you even accept?
How did Eve not know that the serpent wasn't a messenger from God? Someone claiming to be a messenger from God is gonna have to pass through some scutiny on my part.
Are you looking for a group that is just going to validate everything you already believe?
Nope, I'm looking for an impartial group.
 

Northern Lights

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
Sometimes our beliefs are our bedrock, our 'starting point', or 'intuitive'. .......And given the fact that 'angelic revelations' don't really occur (without the use of hallucinogenic drugs), it's unlikely that our faith will ever be proven in this life, by a higher power.

(Hey come on, those are the facts of it! ..... anyone who tells me that "Jesus told them to do such and such", I'll respect as long as they mean by metaphor or interpretation or a dream .... but if they're actually saying they heard a voice in their head - I'd refer them to the local psychiatric hospital).

So a 'starting point belief' such as God being impartial, not sexist, not sadist and not racist, is a valid belief, even going into a search for a religion to practice.

There are plenty of people who hold in their heart a fundamental belief that if there is a god, he's unlikely to discriminate on silly human divisional constructs like gender or race. When you look out at the stars on a beautiful clear night, at the wonder of the universe - it's difficult to believe that a creator of all this universal wonder would have views on the roles of each gender, on people 'having the right paperwork before living together', and that he'd be eternally homophobic. :)

So yeah, I think Crossfire is perfectly valid is saying that she's shopping around, but that she goes into that shopping mall with some starting point beliefs, such as that god is impartial and universal.

:)
 
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Satyrism

Gingembre Sans Frontières
Been reading this thread with interest.

I share Crossfire's religious wish list in many respects.

I feel the search for a spiritual or religious community is a natural urge for any human being. We have evolved and succeeded owing to our relationships and reliance on each other. Some might say it's encoded in our genes to seek out relationships and communities.

From what I have read of Crossfire she is also an advocate of self reflection and analysis. Having others to hold up mirrors and share their own reflections can be instrumental to that journey.

But back to the OP and some of the suggestions made so far;

First suggestion was certain forms of Buddhism and Taoism. I can only speak from an experience of Buddhism here, but I have not, as yet, found any school of Buddhism where there is a true equality between the sexes. Even some modern Buddhists movements maintain the necessity to divide the sexes and to have far more male leaders than they ever have female ones. I think this says a lot. I would like to hope that over time this will change.

Hinduism is very hard to detach from it's culture of origin and some of the gender and class biases inherent in that culture. I do think that the guru/student relationship has immense value though (which is also true of some Buddhist paths)

Liberal/Progressive Christianity from my experience of it, still requires belief in Jesus Christ, so only you could know if He calls to you or not. I do have some friends who are involved in the Forest Church movement. Which is essentially people who believe in Jesus and his teachings, but feel closest to the divine just sitting in nature. However, that doesn't necessitate being reclusive; as they do consider themselves a church and gather in groups. Some have a little light ritual or contemplation or prayer time, but it is pretty light on ritual. Personally, the religious texts of Christianity are still an obstacle for me, because the are not wholly egalitarian and I think we've moved on since the bronze age.

Jediism, I only discovered after reading a post in this thread that this was a serious religious movement. After involvement with the last UK census, I had been led to believe that the Jedi vote was a protest vote, but it appears it is actually a spiritual path, so i'm pleased to be more informed on that one! I don't know what the practice of Jediism involve so will have to leave that there for now.

Neopaganism not really a cohesive religion more of a movement really. And not egalitarian. It appears to be on the surface but scratch below the surface and it really, really isn't. I have a friend doing a PhD on gender imbalance and homophobia within Wicca for instance, and he makes a very strong academic argument. There are many branches of neopaganism that contain quite a lot of biased subtext, some more than others. Granted it's a new and evolving tradition, and you can pretty much make of it what you want but if you consider that many adherents to the movement are inspired by the extinct religions of tribes and nations that are considered by modern standards to be very unequal (keeping slaves, women as property etc) I think that is understandable. However, if you want community relationships, you will meet these issues and you won't be welcome to strongly object because the community is self governing (like a school playground) according to peer pressure and popularities. What I do like about the movement are the feminist aspects and consideration of the necessity to see the divine represented as female as well as male. And that nature should be revered (although, curiously, not all pagans revere nature either). Also their "wheel of the year" actually doesn't make sense and since an academic pointed that out to me, I can't think of neopaganism without thinking about some of those systemic flaws.

New age is hard to conceive of as a religion, there are a bazillion sects, groups and agenda's. My main problem with the movement is the commercialism. So many new age advocates give up their day job and seek to make a career from their beliefs. I think that this sadly, allows a lot of corruption within the movement.

Quaker

Some of the most enjoyable spiritual gatherings I have been to have been Quaker ones. Simple, peaceful and calming. Not sure about the theology for myself but the practice gets high recommendation from me.

UU's

A like what I see on paper, and will try attending some of their meetings at some point. I would say that they certainly meet your requirements. They do have rituals, but they are not highly elaborate or involved ones. Simple acts of worship and community gatherings it seems. And not compulsory.

Judaism

I spent quite a few years on the path to convert to Judaism (long story)! It was with a Progressive Synagogue and I had an amazing female rabbi. Nonetheless, I just don't believe that Yaweh is the only God (I have tried to believe) and I don't find the myth one that I can align myself to ultimately. I also always felt like an outsider, not being a biological Jew, and was treated very differently in Israel to the biologically Jewish friends I was with.

No one has mentioned Islam, so I will. But only enough to say that it is very difficult to distinguish the teachings of the Prophet from the cultures where Islam has existed and evolved (female circumcision is a good example of this). In its early days, Islam was incredibly progressive in comparison to its contemporary religions. And I think again, like all the Abrahamic faiths, it depends on how you feel about the God they follow, the books they revere and the laws those books dictate. Some interpret them more liberally than others, but the history and scriptural inequalities are there nonetheless.

That's my two penneth anyway for what it's worth.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Thank you for your recommendations, Satyrism. :)

Your recommendations do make sense, in that I'm a Zen Buddhist who came to it via Taoism (and a Sen-sei who trained me in Zen practice without my knowing at the time--but taught me none of the theory. {Classic!}) However, finding a group to meet with in my area is challenging, to say the least, especially since my Sen-sei has moved out of the area.

I've located a liberal Quaker group about 20 some odd miles away that I might try.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Actually, you can try to run away from yourself (be a heretic in that manner,) but would that be in line with my wish for impartiality?

Maybe I'm jumping into this without the proper preparation, but my gut feeling is that at some point you just have to face your emotional needs with honesty and admit that you won't always manage to be impartial.

If that makes sense.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Maybe I'm jumping into this without the proper preparation, but my gut feeling is that at some point you just have to face your emotional needs with honesty and admit that you won't always manage to be impartial.

If that makes sense.

Agreed.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Actually, you can try to run away from yourself (be a heretic in that manner,) but would that be in line with my wish for impartiality?

Impartiality, often times, is an incredible wish in itself. I find being at peace with oneself to be a much easier, also much more useful and prospective wish, compared to being at peace with another.
 
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