Saved by grace 2
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Are you still there, I can answer the question thru scripture if you are interested.
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WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hey go ahead dear friend. Welcome and nice to meet you. So far no one else has been able to provide any scripture in 57 pages and 1,122 posts so far to answer the question of this OP. So please go ahead and show me where is the scripture that says Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus?
Saved by grace 2
Member
Thank you, I will show thru scripture that we are not bound to the seventh (physical) day of the week as were the Israelites, and as you know were to be put to death by breaking it. But before I state what I have come to know as the reality and fulfillment of God's rest, I am not here to convince you as I am certain that you are convinced in what you believe. The apostle Paul said what is not done in Faith is sin. So I am certain you are sure that you believe we must obey the 4th commandment as was given to Moses and the Israelites and to do anything different is SIN. I do not atleast not as you and the Seventh day adventist believe it to be obeyed.
Saved by grace 2
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First, do you agree that Jesus broke the comandment when he walked on this earth, according to the Law as stated in the Mosaic covenant. After all this is why many of the religious leaders condemned him, and believed him to be a Lawbreaker. Thereby in their minds there was no way he could be the Promised Messiah. The Israelites were clearly commanded not to do any work period. Jesus and his disciples picking corn in the field was clearly breaking the Law.
Leviticus 23:3 For six days work shall be done, but the seventh day is a day of rest, a holy convocation. YOU SHALL DO NO WORK THEREIN. It is a sabbath of the Lord in all of your dwellings
Leviticus 23:3 For six days work shall be done, but the seventh day is a day of rest, a holy convocation. YOU SHALL DO NO WORK THEREIN. It is a sabbath of the Lord in all of your dwellings
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Lets be honest. You cannot separate Gods Sabbath commandments from Gods 10 commandments. Gods Sabbath commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments spoken by God and written with the finger of God on two tables of stone (see Exodus 20:3-17; Exodus 32:16 which lasts forever see Ecclesiastes 3:14; and being the direct spoken Word of God we are to live by them see Matthew 4:4) that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4). According to the scriptures everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament as the standard of Christian living for those who seek to believe and obey Gods Word through faith.
OLD COVENANT AND NEW COVENANT - GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS
- You shall have no other gods before Me. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)
- You shall make no idols (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)
- You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)
- Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today -Hebrews 4:9 (Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days) (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10
- Honor your father and mother. (Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)
- You shall not murder (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)
- You shall not commit adultery. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)
- You shall not steal. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)
- You shall not bear false witness. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)
- You shall not covet your neighbors possessions. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Timothy 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)
The same death penalty was given to anyone who was caught breaking the 1st Commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20); 2nd Commandment, Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any idols (Exodus 20:4; Deuteronomy 27: 15); 3rd Commandment, Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain (Exodus 20:7; Leviticus 24:16); 4th Commandment Sabbath Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; 5th commandment honor your father and mother (Exodus 20:12; Exodus 21:15-17); 6th commandment thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20: 13; Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33); 7th commandment thou shalt not commit Adultery (Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5); 8th Commandment thou shall not steal kidnapping (Exodus 21:16); 9th commandment thou shall not bear false witness (Deuteronomy 19:15-21) and the 10th commandments thou shall not covet (Joshua 7:21-25)
These were Gods laws to the nation of Israel to teach Gods people that the penalty or wages of known unrepentant sin in Gods eyes is death. These civil laws to old covenant Israel ceased in the new covenant during the time of Christ when Israel was under Roman law and at the death of Christ bringing in the NC. The death penalty for sin and breaking Gods commandments however is still death for those that do not repent of their sins and seek Gods forgiveness of sin before the time of judgement is finished and the second coming when God will bring His judgements to all the worlds (Romans 6:23; James 2:8-12; Revelation 22:11-12). The only difference today is that we are in the new covenant now so we no longer put people to open death and we are not in the nation of Israel under their civil laws. The death penalty for sin is still the the same, however for those who reject the gift of God's dear son *see Romans 6:23 but Jesus says Vengeance is mine and his reward will be with him at the 2nd coming *Romans 12:19-21; Revelation 22:12 when God will put an end to all sin and suffering in this world.
The purpose of Gods 10 commandments in both old and new covenants according to knew covenant scripture is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed) see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. Think your argument through. If there is no law we have no knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20); If we do not know what sin is then we have no knowledge of good and evil (the bible says we do through the law see Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4). If we do not know what sin is we do not know we are sinners (broken Gods Law) if we do not know we are sinners we have no need of a Savior from sin. If we have no Savior from sin we are all lost and will die in our sins (see Romans 2:12-13 and Matthew 9:12-13). The Sabbath is one of Gods 10 commandments dear friend. You cannot separate it from Gods 10 commandments without doing away with all of Gods 10 commandments. This is a problem for your belief. Now please lets not waste any time. You said you have scripture to answer the OP.
Lets continue a little further. I am happy to discuss in detail your claims about entering into Gods rest from Hebrews 3:9-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 but my argument here is that rather than support your claims here that these scriptures actually testify against all those who do not believe Gods Word and break His commandments. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 are warnings given to us stating that no one enters into Gods rest if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says and that this is the reason why Gods people in the wilderness did not enter into Gods rest. So by breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments my argument would be no one enters into Gods rest if they do not believe Gods Word and are breaking Gods commandments. What these scriptures clearly teach is that only those who believe and obey Gods Word are the ones who enter into Gods rest and that the Sabbath is left behind for the people of God to enter into by faith. This is also consistent with the teachings in the rest of the bible and the scripture test to help us to know if we know God or do not know God in 1 John 2:3-4.
Again please answer the question of the OP. Where is the scripture that says Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus? Lets be honest here. There is none is there.
Take Care.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
No dear friend I do not agree. Jesus did not break anyone of Gods 10 commandments. If He did he would be a sinner and we would all be lost and have no hope. Jesus was the Lord and creator of the Sabbath and taught us how to correctly keep the Sabbath and it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath. see Matthew 12:1-12. The Pharisees interpretation of how to keep the Sabbath commandment was not according to how it was ever meant to be kept that was why they were accusing Him of breaking the Sabbath. By the way Leviticus 23 is about the annual Feast days. There are many ceremonial sabbaths in this chapter that can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle the Feast falls on. Now please answer the question of the OP. Where is the scripture that says Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus? Lets be honest here. There is none. We have all been taught lies from Sunday school.
Take Care.
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A forked tongue falsehood this deception in an effort at deflection, from the posted scripture which was Deut 13 12-15 .. not 13-15.. and not Deut 8 - which was obviously a mistake but the quote itself correct. The command from your God from which you are desperately trying to run, hide and avoid.
Deut 13
12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock.
"The meaning and application of these scriptures is that open rebellious sin for Gods people under the civil laws of Israel was the death penalty"
Wrong .. as the death penalty is not for every sin. Correct in that it is the death penalty for those worshiping other Gods .. and wrong for the sin of omission ... omission of the point in disingenuous oblivion .. that the death penalty is also given to those who have not worshiped other Gods .. The Children babies and fetuses being punished for the sins of the Father.
It is this Sin .. Children punished not for their own sin .. but for the sins of others which you, in desperate d disingenuous oblivion have intentionaly omitted.
So Friend - should we follow God's command, and kill children for the sins of their parents ..
Deut 5-9 - Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me.
should we follow Gods command and punish the Children for the sins of the parents down 3 or 4 generations ?
answer the question - and address the contradiction - where God commands Children are not to be put to death for sins of parent .. that Each is punished for his own sin.
When a Father is found worshiping other Gods -- Do we put all the children, babies, and fetuses in the home to Death ? I want to know how to avoid sin and be put right with God.. Sounds like you are suggesting we build the funeral pire high .. let the child sacrifice begin ... a favorite of Lord YHWH ?
Is Death of the babies and fetuses the command of Lord YHWH the command that you wish to follow and would have others do the same .. to be put right with God .. Child Sacrifice. because that is what Lord YHWH - by your own admission commands.
Lord YHWH commands that we engage in the Child Sacrifice -- what does your God command and what is the name of that God ?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
You sound confused dear friend. This is why according to the scriptures. According to the scriptures in both the old and new testament the penalty for known unrepentant sin is still death for breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments in both the old covenant and the new covenant for all those who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says.
As posted earlier the scriptures you quoted were not from Deuteronomy 8:12-15 they are from Deuteronomy 13:13-15. The meaning and application of these scriptures is that open rebellious sin for Gods people under the civil laws of Israel was the death penalty. These laws were applied to all of Gods 10 commandments to teach Gods people that the wages or penalty of sin is death to those who continue practicing it. Nothing has changed dear friend and there is no contradiction, only in your understanding of the scriptures. The only difference now is that we are in the new covenant now not the old, and yes the wages of any known unrepentant sin according to the bible is DEATH! (see Ezekiel 18:4; Romans 6:23). You claim that known unrepentant sin is not death only proves you do not know God and His Word and that you do not believe Gods Word.
Lets continue, so we leave you with no wiggle room. The same death penalty was given to anyone who was caught breaking the 1st Commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20); 2nd Commandment, Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any idols (Exodus 20:4; Deuteronomy 27: 15); 3rd Commandment, Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain (Exodus 20:7; Leviticus 24:16); 4th Commandment Sabbath Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; 5th commandment honor your father and mother (Exodus 20:12; Exodus 21:15-17); 6th commandment thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20: 13; Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33); 7th commandment thou shalt not commit Adultery (Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5); 8th Commandment thou shall not steal kidnapping (Exodus 21:16); 9th commandment thou shall not bear false witness (Deuteronomy 19:15-21) and the 10th commandments thou shall not covet (Joshua 7:21-25)
These were Gods laws to the nation of Israel to teach Gods people that the penalty or wages of known unrepentant sin in Gods eyes is death. These civil laws to old covenant Israel ceased in the new covenant during the time of Christ when Israel was under Roman law and at the death of Christ bringing in the NC. The death penalty for sin and breaking Gods commandments however is still death for those that do not repent of their sins and seek Gods forgiveness of sin before the time of judgement is finished and the second coming when God will bring His judgements to all the worlds (Romans 6:23; James 2:8-12; Revelation 22:11-12). The only difference today is that we are in the new covenant now so we no longer put people to open death and we are not in the nation of Israel under their civil laws. The death penalty for sin is still the the same, however for those who reject the gift of God's dear son *see Romans 6:23 but Jesus says Vengeance is mine and his reward will be with him at the 2nd coming *Romans 12:19-21; Revelation 22:12 when God will put an end to all sin and suffering in this world.
So as proven above, from the scriptures there is no contradiction in the scriptures as you claim. Gods Word does not contradict itself. The contradiction is in your lack of understanding of the scriptures as demonstrated above. Receive Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear. They become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. According to the scriptures if we continue in known unrepentant sin we are in danger of the judgement and will die in our sins (see Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23).
Take Care.
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s
Who is confused .. We agree that the punishment for anyone breaking God's commands is death .. but this is not what is being discussed .. as the child is being punished not for its own sin .. the child has not broken Gods command .. yet Lord YHWH commands a punishment of Death.
so once again now that the confusion has been resolved.. Lord YHWH commands we engage in child sacrifice .. to appease the sins of the Parents .. down to the 3rd and 4th generation. Does your God also command we engage in Child Sacrifice to appease the sins of the Parents and what is the name of that God ?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Here dear friend, let me show you why it is your understanding of the scriptures that is in error if it might be helpful to you. You are trying to read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures leading you to not understand what the scriptures are saying. Here let me prove this claim to you by comparing what you are saying above to what the scriptures are saying that you posted. Notice that I am adding the completed context around these scriptures you quoted earlier that you were already corrected on from Deuteronomy 13:13-15.
- Deuteronomy 13:6-18 6, If your (Israel believers) brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, you, nor your fathers; 7, Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, near to you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth; 8, You shall not consent to him, nor listen to him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him: 9, But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first on him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10, And you shall stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the 11, And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. 12, If you shall hear say in one of your cities, which the LORD your God has given you to dwell there, saying, 13, Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known; 14, Then shall you inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is worked among you; 15, You shall surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16, And you shall gather all the spoil of it into the middle of the street thereof, and shall burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD your God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17, And there shall stick nothing of the cursed thing to your hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show you mercy, and have compassion on you, and multiply you, as he has sworn to your fathers; 18, When you shall listen to the voice of the LORD your God, to keep all his commandments which I command you this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD your God.
- These are Gods command to His people Israel for those Israelite's who seek to turn the people away from God to idolatry (Deut 13:6-18)
- It includes anyone from your own family or friends that entices a believer into idolatry (Deut 13:6-7)
- The believer should not listen or go with these people to practice idolatry (Deut 13:8)
- The believer will be the first to put them to death and then the rest of Israel by stoning (Deut 13:9-11)
- It punishment of idolatry included all of the cities of Israel that practiced idolatry should be put to death (Deut 13:12-15)
- This included utterly destroying all the belongings of this people (Deut 13:16-17)
- Gods mercy and favor was conditional on Gods people not practicing sin and keeping His commandments (Deut 13:18).
- 1st Commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20);
- 2nd Commandment, Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any idols (Exodus 20:4; Deuteronomy 27: 15);
- 3rd Commandment, Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain (Exodus 20:7; Leviticus 24:16);
- 4th Commandment Sabbath Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2;
- 5th Commandment honor your father and mother (Exodus 20:12; Exodus 21:15-17);
- 6th Commandment thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20: 13; Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33);
- 7th Commandment thou shalt not commit Adultery (Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5);
- 8th Commandment thou shall not steal kidnapping (Exodus 21:16);
- 9th Commandment thou shall not bear false witness (Deuteronomy 19:15-21) and the
- 10th Commandments thou shall not covet (Joshua 7:21-25)
So as proven above, from the scriptures there is no contradiction in the scriptures as you claim. Gods Word does not contradict itself. The contradiction is in your lack of understanding of the scriptures as demonstrated above. The penalty of sin is death according to the scriptures. Receive Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear. They become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. According to the scriptures if we continue in known unrepentant sin we are in danger of the judgement and will die in our sins (see Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23).
Take Care.
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Saved by grace 2
Member
Ok, So I stated what Paul said about what is not done in Faith is Sin, because the two specific reasons he gave, as I am certain you are aware were, eating and Certain days that some observe and that some don't. I already know your answer but maybe for the sake of others, Romans 14 verse 5 and 6 deal specifically with a Day, you will of course say it is not referring to the 7th sabbath day of the week according to the 4th commandment but that is your interpretation not mine and millions of Christians. Also, Colossians says very much the same thing, also below
Romans 14
1. Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
And at Verse 17 thru 23 the emphasis is not outwardly things but of the heart.
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Clossians 2:13-17
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
We are no longer bound by Specific Days including the 7th Sabbath day. You argue it does not the mean 7th Sabbath day, but I sincerely disagree. And Hebrews 3 and 4 as you have also taken and given a general vague meaning about what it means, is the VERY SCRIPTURE that identifies the New Covenant SABBATH DAY. And it is very specifically addressing Faith ( Belief ) in Jesus Christ as the eternal Sacrifice for our Sins. The Israelites were brought into the conversation as a means to show that we too will NOT ENTER God's REST if we DO NOT BELIEVE and Obey God's Word "TODAY". And what day is He emphasizing? Is it the seventh Sabbath that we are told we need to find our Rest? NO, it is in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross.
Jesus said before he gave up the Ghost "IT IS FINISHED". And we know that what he established (finished) was the means by which we are restored to fellowship and peace with God. WE NOW REST IN THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. Jesus is our REST, not just for a (Sabbath day) but every single day. TODAY If you will hear his voice and believe in Jesus our High Priest, and the one time sacrifice for all sin , we shall cease from our own WORKS ( Trying to earn our righteousness with God which is hopeless). And we can enter into God's REST. Therefore every single day we LABOR, we diligently seek to live in the finished work of Jesus Christ. We know this by actually living and experiencing the Righteousness, peace and joy of the Holy Spirit, not just for one day but every "DAY"
Hebrews 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his (JESUS) rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, (And What is the gospel other than Faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of Sins) as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (When do we enter into this rest? It is the moment, The Day we believe in the gospel of JC)
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
So my answer to your question "where is the Sabbath day changed in Scripture". It is in Chapter 4 of Hebrews, but it was never changed to only Sunday, and we are no longer to live only one rest day out the week but Every SINGLE DAY. There is true freedom in serving and living and resting in the finished works of Christ to where we no longer strive to live for and obey the Commandments of God in our own strength, but we cease from our Own Works and live by the Power of the Holy Spirit living in us, made available thru the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, putting all of our hope and trust in HIM.
Romans 14
1. Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
And at Verse 17 thru 23 the emphasis is not outwardly things but of the heart.
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Clossians 2:13-17
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
We are no longer bound by Specific Days including the 7th Sabbath day. You argue it does not the mean 7th Sabbath day, but I sincerely disagree. And Hebrews 3 and 4 as you have also taken and given a general vague meaning about what it means, is the VERY SCRIPTURE that identifies the New Covenant SABBATH DAY. And it is very specifically addressing Faith ( Belief ) in Jesus Christ as the eternal Sacrifice for our Sins. The Israelites were brought into the conversation as a means to show that we too will NOT ENTER God's REST if we DO NOT BELIEVE and Obey God's Word "TODAY". And what day is He emphasizing? Is it the seventh Sabbath that we are told we need to find our Rest? NO, it is in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross.
Jesus said before he gave up the Ghost "IT IS FINISHED". And we know that what he established (finished) was the means by which we are restored to fellowship and peace with God. WE NOW REST IN THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. Jesus is our REST, not just for a (Sabbath day) but every single day. TODAY If you will hear his voice and believe in Jesus our High Priest, and the one time sacrifice for all sin , we shall cease from our own WORKS ( Trying to earn our righteousness with God which is hopeless). And we can enter into God's REST. Therefore every single day we LABOR, we diligently seek to live in the finished work of Jesus Christ. We know this by actually living and experiencing the Righteousness, peace and joy of the Holy Spirit, not just for one day but every "DAY"
Hebrews 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his (JESUS) rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, (And What is the gospel other than Faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of Sins) as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (When do we enter into this rest? It is the moment, The Day we believe in the gospel of JC)
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
So my answer to your question "where is the Sabbath day changed in Scripture". It is in Chapter 4 of Hebrews, but it was never changed to only Sunday, and we are no longer to live only one rest day out the week but Every SINGLE DAY. There is true freedom in serving and living and resting in the finished works of Christ to where we no longer strive to live for and obey the Commandments of God in our own strength, but we cease from our Own Works and live by the Power of the Holy Spirit living in us, made available thru the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, putting all of our hope and trust in HIM.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hello @Saved by grace 2, thanks for your posts but just a couple of points I want to make before addressing your post here.
- You simply ignored my last 2-3 posts to you and did not address anything in these posts to you. Also...
- Everything you have posted in you post above does not state anywhere that Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Also, what you have posted has already been addressed with detailed scripture responses throughout this OP proving once context is added that none of the scriptures you have posted support claims that the bible teaches that Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:8-11 has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. So this post does not even address anything in the OP so far.
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT ROMANS 14:5 IS TALKING ABOUT THE SABBATH (linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT COLOSSIANS 2:13-17 IS TALKING ABOUT GOD'S SEVENTH DAY SABBATH 1 (short version linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT COLOSSIANS 2:13-17 IS TALKING ABOUT GOD'S SEVENTH DAY SABBATH 2 (linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT COLOSSIANS 2:13-17 IS TALKING ABOUT GOD'S SEVENTH DAY SABBATH 3 (linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT HEBREWS 4 IS CHANGING THE SABBATH 1 (linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT HEBREWS 4 IS CHANGING THE SABBATH 2 (linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT HEBREWS 4 IS CHANGING THE SABBATH 3 (linked)
Have a read through the responses above to all your claims that have already been addressed in this OP. If you disagree with anything I have posted already in the linked posts then respond to them and prove from the scriptures why you are in disagreement and lets discuss. You need to study Gods Word for yourself dear friend, not just simply parrot off scriptures pulled out of context to make up false teachings that lead others into sin and unbelief and away from God and His Word. We have all been taught lies in Sunday school. God is calling us all back to worship Him in Spirit and in truth and is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God. Our God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). God is calling us all where ever we are to return to His Word.
If you disagree with anything I have posted lets discuss the detail please. Now back to the OP. Where is the scripture that teaches Gods 4th commandment or seventh day Sabbath commandment of Gods 10 commandments found in Exodus 20:8-11 that teaches Gods seventh day Sabbath has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? There is none is there. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and Hebrews 3:9-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11.
Take Care.
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Saved by grace 2
Member
I have not intentionally ignored your questions, I came to the last one and answered it, and sorry I am not the theologian you seem to be. I only know a few things, but I am very confident in whom and what I believe. NO I don't have the knowledge you have, but I know this., I have been born again thru Faith in Jesus Christ, I was once filled with anger, lust, etc. and Jesus has transformed my life. These are facts that neither yuo nor anyone else can deny. And I live in his PERFECT REST each and every day. If I said anything else I would be lying.
I did answer your question on where does it say in scripture and restated it below. And I do agree the day was never changed to Sunday, and I did not ever believe it was. As for Jesus breaking the 4th commandment, you are correct and so is the WORD, JESUS NEVER BROKE THE COMMANDMENT. He is God, even though what he did, i.e. healing and eating the corn, etc., seems to be the case, he gave us the law. He can and did what he established the Law to mean, and there is noone who is in disagreement to his understanding be anything but a liar and are deceived. He also stated that the Sabbath was made for us, not the other way around. That matters, I believe because many today still do not understand this.
As I stated in the previous statement, my answer to your question "where is the Sabbath day changed in Scripture". It is in Chapter 4 of Hebrews, but it was never changed to only Sunday, but fulfilled in Christ as he is now our Rest, and the emphasis is that we are no longer bound by a Day, and we are no longer to live only one rest day out the week but Every SINGLE DAY. There is true freedom in serving and living and resting in the finished works of Christ to where we no longer strive to live for and obey the Commandments of God in our own strength, but we cease from our Own Works and live by the Power of the Holy Spirit living in us, made available thru the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, putting all of our hope and trust in HIM.
By the way I have not read the other posts, SO As for me parroting, as you said, what others have said,.........Thank you! This means we Christians are believing the same Freedom we have in Christ Jesus truths. To live in disobedience but to live in Christ!
You take Care!
I did answer your question on where does it say in scripture and restated it below. And I do agree the day was never changed to Sunday, and I did not ever believe it was. As for Jesus breaking the 4th commandment, you are correct and so is the WORD, JESUS NEVER BROKE THE COMMANDMENT. He is God, even though what he did, i.e. healing and eating the corn, etc., seems to be the case, he gave us the law. He can and did what he established the Law to mean, and there is noone who is in disagreement to his understanding be anything but a liar and are deceived. He also stated that the Sabbath was made for us, not the other way around. That matters, I believe because many today still do not understand this.
As I stated in the previous statement, my answer to your question "where is the Sabbath day changed in Scripture". It is in Chapter 4 of Hebrews, but it was never changed to only Sunday, but fulfilled in Christ as he is now our Rest, and the emphasis is that we are no longer bound by a Day, and we are no longer to live only one rest day out the week but Every SINGLE DAY. There is true freedom in serving and living and resting in the finished works of Christ to where we no longer strive to live for and obey the Commandments of God in our own strength, but we cease from our Own Works and live by the Power of the Holy Spirit living in us, made available thru the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, putting all of our hope and trust in HIM.
By the way I have not read the other posts, SO As for me parroting, as you said, what others have said,.........Thank you! This means we Christians are believing the same Freedom we have in Christ Jesus truths. To live in disobedience but to live in Christ!
You take Care!
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hey that is ok my friend. That said as shown above your last post does not answer or address anything in this OP which is asking for scripture that tells us that Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. If you study the bible for yourself you will find no scripture for this teachings. It is simply a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from Gods and His Word against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and Hebrews 3:8-10 and Hebrews 4:1-11.
Do not be sorry my friend. I am just like you although I read the bible for myself and ask God to be my guide and teacher claiming His promises in John 7:17; John 14:26 and John 16:13. You can too.
AMEN! Me too praise God who can change our lives right? As posted earlier and throughout this OP and elsewhere I believe that the scriptures teach that God has His people in every Church in John 10:16 living up to all the knowledge that He has revealed to them. Sadly I believe the mainstream Church's of the world have fallen away from God and His Word and are leading Gods people away from God and His Word into following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. I also believe the teachings of Jesus where He says the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth according to what His Word says. The only definition of truth in the bible is Gods Word according to John 17:17. God is calling us all to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God back to His Word and it is written Gods sheep will hear His voice (the Word of God) and follow Him (see John 10:26-27; Revelation 18:1-5).
According to the scriptures in times of ignorance when we do not know any better, God winks at but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word He expects us to believe and obey what His Word says (see James 4:17 and compare Acts 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-31). If you read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4, they are warnings to Gods people telling us that no one enters into Gods rest if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. So none of us can claim to enter into Gods rest if we do not believe and obey what Gods Word says and have known unrepentant sin in our lives. This is the warning of Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking Gods law and any one of Gods 10 commandments including Gods 4th commandment or seventh day Sabbath which is one of Gods 10 commandments and not believing and obeying what Gods Word says (see Exodus 20:8-11; 1 John 3:4 compare James 2:10-11; John 3:36; Romans 14:23). So we cannot claim to have entered into Gods rest if we have known unrepentant sin in our lives. According to the scriptures just like breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments if we break Gods Sabbath commandment it is sin according to the scriptures.
Yes good points. I agree with you @Saved by grace 2
Well your claim here that the Sabbath was changed in Hebrews 4 is not true at all as shown with full scripture context here..
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT HEBREWS 4 IS CHANGING THE SABBATH 1 (linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT HEBREWS 4 IS CHANGING THE SABBATH 2 (linked)
- FALSE CLAIMS THAT HEBREWS 4 IS CHANGING THE SABBATH 3 (linked)
Actually it does not at all. It only means you are copying what other false teachers are saying to support sin and unbelief and do not study Gods Word for yourself. Lets see if these claims are true? After all according to the scripture "the many that are called are not the few that are Gods chosen." The many that are called are those who are lost according to Matthew 7:13-23. Lets pray we do not find ourselves in this group. Better to find out before our time is over if we are worshiping God in Spirit and truth or if we are following man-made teachings and traditions that have led us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God into sin and unbelief.
Take Care.
Saved by grace 2
Member
Saved by grace 2
Member
You keep saying I am breaking God's commandments (plural) because I don't believe your interpretation to the adherence to the 4th Comandment, but I keep telling you I do. I do rest in God on Saturday and I also do it every other day. Every day I rest in the Grace, love and provision of God. Every day I seek him first, and commune with God, thru prayer and meditation in his Word. I dont do that simply to obey God, but to spend time with him, to mature in Christ and be more like him. To love and to worship him. You keep claiming that because I don't believe like you do, that I am deceived, you and I both know we will be judged by God......I am ready to stand before God based on what Christ did for me, not based on what I did for God. Whether you think I am or not.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Actually if you read the scriptures provided with my posts, I posted scripture that states word for word that sin is the transgression of Gods law in 1 John 3:4 and that Gods Sabbath commandment or 4th commandment in my bible, is one of Gods 10 commandments as shown in Exodus 20:8-11. The scriptures also say word for word without interpretation Gods law give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken as stated in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11 and 1 John 3:4. Once again this is Gods Word not my words. According to these scriptures (word for word) in Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 no one rests in God on any day of the week if they do not believe and do not obey what Gods Word says (see Hebrews 3:12). Sin is the transgression of Gods law and breaking Gods Sabbath commandment is defined as sin according to Gods Word (word for word) and if you break it by working, buying and selling, shopping and not keeping it holy from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday our time then according to Gods Word or breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments then you are not resting in God or His grace but stand guilty before God of sin and death see Romans 3:19 and are only a part of the many that are called and not among the few that are Gods chosen who Jesus will say depart from me you who work iniquity I never knew you. (see Matthew 7:13-23 compare 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9 and Revelation 14:12). Read all the scriptures provided with this post and see for yourself that these are Gods Word (word for word) that are not my words that disagree with your words. Now if you choose not to believe and obey Gods Word and practice sin then that does not place you in a very good standing with God now does it (see why in Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:13-23; Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11).
Take Care.
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Look Friend - your claim that there is no contradiction - is self deception. Your proof consists of claiming that the contradiction is somehow void on the basis God's collective punishment - killing everyone in a town for sin of Idolatry .. and thus killing children for the sins of others or killing one person for the sin of another ... a Rule of Law violation .. and as said by God .. each is to be punished for their own sin -- and in fact you posted this scripture - which contradicts your ridiculously nonsensical claim that there is no contradiction due to collective punishment .. killing one person for the sin of another.
Further .. this is not the only place where God commands killing of one person for the sin of another ... killing innocent children, babies and fetuses for the sins of others .. contradicting the command not to slaughter innocent children and babies for the sins of others.
People are not to be killed for ths sins of others .. which you state over and over --- contradicts Gods Command to kill people for the sins of others .. down to the 3rd and 4th generation.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hello again @Sargonski
As posted above in the post and scriptures you did not respond to and ignored, earlier according to the scriptures, you are trying to read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures leading you to not understand what the scriptures are saying. Here let me prove this claim to you by comparing what you are saying above to what the scriptures are saying that you posted. Notice that I am adding the completed context around these scriptures you quoted earlier that you were already corrected on from Deuteronomy 13:13-15.
- Deuteronomy 13:6-18 6, If your (Israel believers) brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, you, nor your fathers; 7, Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, near to you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth; 8, You shall not consent to him, nor listen to him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him: 9, But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first on him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10, And you shall stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the 11, And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. 12, If you shall hear say in one of your cities, which the LORD your God has given you to dwell there, saying, 13, Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known; 14, Then shall you inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is worked among you; 15, You shall surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16, And you shall gather all the spoil of it into the middle of the street thereof, and shall burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD your God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17, And there shall stick nothing of the cursed thing to your hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show you mercy, and have compassion on you, and multiply you, as he has sworn to your fathers; 18, When you shall listen to the voice of the LORD your God, to keep all his commandments which I command you this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD your God.
- These are Gods command to His people Israel for those Israelite's who seek to turn the people away from God to idolatry (Deut 13:6-18)
- It includes anyone from your own family or friends that entices a believer into idolatry (Deut 13:6-7)
- The believer should not listen or go with these people to practice idolatry (Deut 13:8)
- The believer will be the first to put them to death and then the rest of Israel by stoning (Deut 13:9-11)
- It punishment of idolatry included all of the cities of Israel that practiced idolatry should be put to death (Deut 13:12-15)
- This included utterly destroying all the belongings of this people (Deut 13:16-17)
- Gods mercy and favor was conditional on Gods people not practicing sin and keeping His commandments (Deut 13:18).
- 1st Commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20);
- 2nd Commandment, Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any idols (Exodus 20:4; Deuteronomy 27: 15);
- 3rd Commandment, Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain (Exodus 20:7; Leviticus 24:16);
- 4th Commandment Sabbath Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2;
- 5th Commandment honor your father and mother (Exodus 20:12; Exodus 21:15-17);
- 6th Commandment thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20: 13; Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33);
- 7th Commandment thou shalt not commit Adultery (Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5);
- 8th Commandment thou shall not steal kidnapping (Exodus 21:16);
- 9th Commandment thou shall not bear false witness (Deuteronomy 19:15-21) and the
- 10th Commandments thou shall not covet (Joshua 7:21-25)
So as proven above, from the scriptures there is no contradiction in the scriptures as you claim. Gods Word does not contradict itself. The contradiction is in your lack of understanding of the scriptures as demonstrated above. The penalty of sin is death according to the scriptures. Receive Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear. They become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. According to the scriptures if we continue in known unrepentant sin we are in danger of the judgement and will die in our sins (see Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23). Receive Gods Words and correction and be blessed ignoring them does not make them disappear. According to the scriptures, the words of God we choose to accept or reject become our judge come judgement day see John 12:47-48
Take Care.
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