WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[3rdAngel]

You are the one making the claim that Gen 2;2-3 includes a command to rest on the Sabbath. All I need to prove my point is to post those verses so that everyone can see that they include NO COMMAND. This is a no brainer.

No not really, I simply posted scripture showing that God blessed the seventh day and made the seventh day a holy day of rest as a memorial of creation for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3 and Mark 2:27. It is you however that is trying to argue that God did not have laws and commandments until Exodus 20 and Mt Sinai. Your mistake here shown to you by quoting Genesis 26:5 where God says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Go do your homework look up the Hebrew word meaning for laws in Genesis 26:5. Do you really think that Gods people pre-Exodus 20 did not know Gods laws and were living their lives in known unrepentant sin and in doing so were Gods people? Think your argument through next time. If there was no knowledge of what sin was pre-Exodus God would not have destroyed the world with a flood because people would not have any knowledge of what sin was and there would be no difference between those following God and those who did not.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No not really, I simply posted scripture showing that God blessed the seventh day and made the seventh day a holy day of rest as a memorial of creation

And blessing the seventh day is NOT the same as commanding anyone to rest on it. Case closed.

 

[3rdAngel]

And blessing the seventh day is NOT the same as commanding anyone to rest on it. Case closed.

God making the seventh day a holy day and setting it aside as a holy day of rest for all mankind is though according to the scriptures. (Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27). Think your argument through. Who did God bless the seventh day Sabbath for, himself or man? Who did God make the Sabbath a holy day of rest for, himself or man? Read the scriptures; Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was made for man... Case is closed on you dear friend. Think your argument through. You are clearly not.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

God making the seventh day a holy day and setting it aside as a holy day of rest for all mankind is though according to the scriptures. (Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27).

But that's not what happens in Gen 2:2-3. The first part happens, where the seventh day is set aside to be holy. But the second part about commanding anyone else to rest is NOT THERE.

Forget Mark. Mark is not in question. We are discussing Gen 2:2-3. Stay focused.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But that's not what happens in Gen 2:2-3. The first part happens, where the seventh day is set aside to be holy. But the second part about commanding anyone else to rest is NOT THERE.

Forget Mark. Mark is not in question. We are discussing Gen 2:2-3. Stay focused.

It is ordered in Exodus 34. But that chapter is rather problematical because the Ten Commandments it lists are quite different from the earlier ones. But those were also supposed to be the Commandments kept in the Ark of the Covenant. The Bible is rather confusing at times if one tries to take it literally.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

But that's not what happens in Gen 2:2-3. The first part happens, where the seventh day is set aside to be holy. But the second part about commanding anyone else to rest is NOT THERE.

Forget Mark. Mark is not in question. We are discussing Gen 2:2-3. Stay focused.

Hi and good evening IndigoChild5559. Hello again. Surely you are not suggesting that the Sabbath was made for Adam and Eve, and not any of their descendants?

 

[paarsurrey]

According to the scripture Genesis 2:1-3 says 1, ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and made it holy: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Who did God bless the Sabbath day for and make it holy?

According to Jesus in Mark 2:27 the Sabbath was made for mankind. Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day of the creation week according to Genesis 1:26-31. See also Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Take Care.

" Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. "

What are the things that Abraham "obeyed, kept charge and G-d's commandment/statures and laws, please?

I get :
" The text of the Ten Commandments appears twice in the Hebrew Bible: at Exodus 20:2–17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21.

According to the Book of Exodus in the Torah, the Ten Commandments were revealed to Moses at Mount Sinai, told by Moses to the Israelites in Exodus 19:25 and inscribed by the finger of God on two tablets of stone kept in the Ark of the Covenant.[1] "

Ten Commandments - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It reflects that ten commandments pertain to Moses, and these cannot be attributed to Abraham, please, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is ordered in Exodus 34. But that chapter is rather problematical because the Ten Commandments it lists are quite different from the earlier ones. But those were also supposed to be the Commandments kept in the Ark of the Covenant. The Bible is rather confusing at times if one tries to take it literally.

Oh, I agree. The People of Israel are ordered to rest on the Sabbath in Exodus. The question we were discussing was whether there were any time God commanded the nations (not Israel) to observe the Sabbath. His reply was in Gen 2:2-3, but that is not the case -- no commandment exists in those verses.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hi and good evening IndigoChild5559. Hello again. Surely you are not suggesting that the Sabbath was made for Adam and Eve, and not any of their descendants?

What I have said, OVER AND OVER, is that Gen 2:2-3 does not include ANY COMMAND to any person, Jew or gentile.

 

[Kenny]

Hey guys

Just wondering where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus?

May God bless you as you seek to know Him through His Word.

Fulfilled. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbaoth and we have entered into complete rest. He is our eternal year of Jubilee.

 

[3rdAngel]

What I have said, OVER AND OVER, is that Gen 2:2-3 does not include ANY COMMAND to any person, Jew or gentile.

Not exactly. What you were claiming over and over is that Gods people prior to Exodus did not know Gods laws. This is an unbiblical teaching unsupported by scripture made by arguments of silence and is not biblical. What Gods Word (not mine) says is that Gods people knew Gods laws pre-Exodus as shown in Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham (1) obeyed my voice, and (2) kept my charge, (3) my commandments, (4) my statutes, and (5) my laws. Go look up the Hebrew word meaning for laws used here. To make claims that Adam and Eve did not obey the Sabbath whey it is written in the scriptures that God made the Sabbath for all mankind is not biblical as shown in the words of Jesus in Mark 2:27. Even God tells us in the Torah that Adam and Eve had the knowledge of good and evil after they sinned in the garden of Eden in Genesis 3:22 and again this is also again stated in Genesis 26:5 in regards to offspring who believed Gods Word.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

Oh, I agree. The People of Israel are ordered to rest on the Sabbath in Exodus. The question we were discussing was whether there were any time God commanded the nations (not Israel) to observe the Sabbath. His reply was in Gen 2:2-3, but that is not the case -- no commandment exists in those verses.

Actually your response is not truthful. As posted earlier. I shared with you from the scriptures in the new covenant that Gods Israel is no longer all those who have been born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who have been born again to walk in the Spirit of Messiah and that the name Israel is only a name given by God to all those who through faith in Gods Word choose to follow God. So Gods Israel in the new covenant are now all those who through faith believe and follow what Gods Word says. Gentile believers are now grafted in. See Romans 11:13-26.

This is what the scriptures teach in ..

ROMANS 9:6-8[/URL] [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.​

EPHESIANS 2:11-13[/URL] [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.​

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GALATIANS 3:28-29[/URL] [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.​

​

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL... God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...​

​

ROMANS 2:28-29[/URL] [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.​

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11[/URL] [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.​

​

ROMANS 10:11-13[/URL] [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.​

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27[/URL] [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.​

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34[/URL] [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

​

Paul proclaims it here...​

​

HEBREWS 8:10-12[/URL] [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.​

​

So very simply Gods written Words are indeed for Gods Israel but Gods Israel now according to the new testament scriptures are all those who choose by faith to believe and follow what Gods Word says. This of course includes Gods 10 commandments. Trying to pretend that Gods 10 commandments did not exist prior to Exodus 20 is not what the bible teaches (e.g. Genesis 26:5; Exodus 16). Before the written recorded words of God given at Mt Sinai there was the spoken Word of God. As posted earlier, Genesis 2:1-3 is the making of the Sabbath. Genesis 2:1-3 is where the Sabbath came from that God blessed and made a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27). They are Gods Words not mine. What you believe is between you and God. So your argument is with God not me. Trying to make an argument that no one kept Gods laws before Exodus 20 is simply an argument founded in lies as already demonstrated in the scriptures in Genesis 26:5 and the very words of Jesus in Mark 2:27 where he says that the Sabbath was made for mankind not the Jews. God did not bless the seventh day Sabbath and make it a holy day of rest for himself. The Sabbath day is a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as our creator of heaven and earth being made for all mankind (Mark 2:27) including Adam and Eve created on the 6th day according to Genesis 1:26-31 before the fall *Genesis 3:1-5.

 

[3rdAngel]

" Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. "

What are the things that Abraham "obeyed, kept charge and G-d's commandment/statures and laws, please?

I get :
" The text of the Ten Commandments appears twice in the Hebrew Bible: at Exodus 20:2–17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21.

According to the Book of Exodus in the Torah, the Ten Commandments were revealed to Moses at Mount Sinai, told by Moses to the Israelites in Exodus 19:25 and inscribed by the finger of God on two tablets of stone kept in the Ark of the Covenant.[1] "

Ten Commandments - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It reflects that ten commandments pertain to Moses, and these cannot be attributed to Abraham, please, right?

Regards

No not at all. According to the scriptures before the spoken and written words of God given at Mt Sinai Gods people where given the spoken words of God through direct revelation by God. When God says in Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham (1) obeyed my voice, and (2) kept my charge, (3) my commandments, (4) my statutes, and (5) my laws. (look up the Hebrew word meaning for laws). Gods people not only had the knowledge of good and evil and knew what sin was but also had and practiced the laws of atonement of animal sacrifices and sin offerings of the old testament.

So we are not talking about the written Word of God here but the spoken Words of God revealed directly by God to those who believed and followed God. According to the scriptures, Gods 10 commandments give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD (moral right doing when obeyed) and EVIL (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); SIN (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); and RIGHTEOUSNESS (moral right doing when obeyed) - see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. According to the scriptures, this knowledge of good and evil was given to Adam and Eve at the fall (see Genesis 3:1-5 compare Genesis 3:22). So according to the scriptures God revealed His laws to His people prior to Exodus 20 and Mt Sinai. So the purpose of Gods law according to the scriptures is to give us the knowledge of right doing (righteousness) when obeyed and sin when disobeyed. Gods 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness.

To further support the scriptures shared about do a bible word search on sin in the old testament pre-Exodus in Genesis and you will see that Gods people had this knowledge of good and evil and what sin was as defined in the scriptures. If sin is defined in the scriptures as the transgression of Gods law and not believing and following what Gods Word says in 1 John 3:4 and Romans 14:23 then it is nonsense to believe that God's people prior to Exodus 20 did not know what sin was and were all living in known unrepentant sin and that there was no difference between them and the wicked that God destroyed by a flood because they were sinning.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

But that's not what happens in Gen 2:2-3. The first part happens, where the seventh day is set aside to be holy. But the second part about commanding anyone else to rest is NOT THERE.
Forget Mark. Mark is not in question. We are discussing Gen 2:2-3. Stay focused.

Think your argument through dear friend. You are clearly not. Are you still wanting to argue that none of Gods people had Gods spoken laws prior to Mt Sinai when God himself disagrees with you in Genesis 26:5? I can understand why you want to forget Mark 2:27. It is because they are the very words of our promised Messiah in Jesus who you reject but to us they are Gods Words God and Jesus as God's promised Messiah of the old testament scriptures written in the law and the prophets.

 

[3rdAngel]

Fulfilled. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbaoth and we have entered into complete rest. He is our eternal year of Jubilee.

According to the scriptures no one enters into Gods rest if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. This is what Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 is talking about. We only enter into Gods rest by believing and obeying what Gods Word says. This is what Matthew 11:28-30 is talking about. According to the scriptures Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath as defined in the scriptures is the seventh day of the week and it is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (see James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Exodus 20:10)

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not exactly. What you were claiming over and over is that Gods people prior to Exodus did not know Gods laws.

Oh that's an entirely DIFFERENT issue. You have made up this thing that "believers" are the People of Israel. Nothing like that exists in hte Tanakh. But THAT is another topic. The topic that I want you to stay focused on like a lazer beam, is that nowhere in the torah is anyone other than the People of Israel commanded to rest on the sabbath. Your response has been to say, Gen 2:2-3, and I have repeatedly pointed out that Gen 2:2-3 says nothing about ANY command to rest on the sabbath.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Actually your response is not truthful.

If you are going to accuse me of lying, I'm not even going to bother reading your post. If you want a conversation with me, you are going to have to treat me with respect.

 

[paarsurrey]

No not at all. According to the scriptures before the spoken and written words of God given at Mt Sinai Gods people where given the spoken words of God through direct revelation by God. When God says in Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham (1) obeyed my voice, and (2) kept my charge, (3) my commandments, (4) my statutes, and (5) my laws. (look up the Hebrew word meaning for laws). Gods people not only had the knowledge of good and evil and knew what sin was but also had and practiced the laws of atonement of animal sacrifices and sin offerings of the old testament.

So we are not talking about the written Word of God here but the spoken Words of God revealed directly by God to those who believed and followed God. According to the scriptures, Gods 10 commandments give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD (moral right doing when obeyed) and EVIL (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); SIN (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); and RIGHTEOUSNESS (moral right doing when obeyed) - see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. According to the scriptures, this knowledge of good and evil was given to Adam and Eve at the fall (see Genesis 3:1-5 compare Genesis 3:22). So according to the scriptures God revealed His laws to His people prior to Exodus 20 and Mt Sinai. So the purpose of Gods law according to the scriptures is to give us the knowledge of right doing (righteousness) when obeyed and sin when disobeyed. Gods 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness.

To further support the scriptures shared about do a bible word search on sin in the old testament pre-Exodus in Genesis and you will see that Gods people had this knowledge of good and evil and what sin was as defined in the scriptures. If sin is defined in the scriptures as the transgression of Gods law and not believing and following what Gods Word says in 1 John 3:4 and Romans 14:23 then it is nonsense to believe that God's people prior to Exodus 20 did not know what sin was and were all living in known unrepentant sin and that there was no difference between them and the wicked that God destroyed by a flood because they were sinning.

Take Care.

" people where given the spoken words of God through direct revelation by God "

And what is one's source of knowing that exactly, please, right?
And how does one know that it were 10 commandments revealed on Moses, please?

Regards

 

[3rdAngel]

Oh that's an entirely DIFFERENT issue. You have made up this thing that "believers" are the People of Israel. Nothing like that exists in hte Tanakh. But THAT is another topic. The topic that I want you to stay focused on like a lazer beam, is that nowhere in the torah is anyone other than the People of Israel commanded to rest on the sabbath. Your response has been to say, Gen 2:2-3, and I have repeatedly pointed out that Gen 2:2-3 says nothing about ANY command to rest on the sabbath.

You are not being truthful now. Making things up and denying the scriptures that are in disagreement with you is what you do to make excuses for sin. It is you making arguments in silence as proven already through the scriptures you deny stating that Gods people before My Sinai did not know what Gods laws where dispite God stating the direct opposite in Genesis 26:5..

Look at all the scriptures that disagree with your claims here. According to the scriptures it is written that...

1. God made the Sabbath on the seventh day of the creation week for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27
2. The purpose of Gods law is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172
3. God gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil after the fall and before Mt Sinai as shown in Genesis 3:22
4. Before the written Word of God in Exodus 20 there was the direct spoken word in Genesis to Gods people (Genesis).
5. Gods people knew Gods laws before Exodus 20 as shown in what God says about Abraham in Genesis 26:5
6. Gods people knew what sin (defined as breaking Gods law) was before Exodus 20 as shown in Genesis 4:7; 18:20; 20:9; 31:36; 39:9; 42:22; 50:17
7. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their sins (Genesis 18:20
8. The world was destroyed because of its it was evil Genesis 6:5

So to make arguments in silence and try and make claims that Gods people before Exodus and Mt Sinai did not know what sin was or did not have Gods moral laws and laws of atonement for sin is simply unbiblical. As already demonstrated in the scriptures you deny and did not respond to. Gods Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to walk in Gods Word. To claim that no one had Gods laws before Mt Sinai is simply a false teaching and places no difference between the wicked and Gods righteous people who believed and obeyed God. Think your argument through. If the wicked did not know what sin was why did God destroy them? If Gods people did not know what sin was and were also sinning why did God not destroy them? Your understanding of the scriptures make no sense. This should be a red flag for you. Receive Gods correction and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

If you are going to accuse me of lying, I'm not even going to bother reading your post. If you want a conversation with me, you are going to have to treat me with respect.

Post the rest of my post and respond to it. I never accused you of lying. I said you were not being truthful in the post of yours I was responding to and outlined why in the rest of the post you left out here and ignored showing why. There is no difference friend. You are ignoring my posts and not reading them now are you? If you were you would respond to the content of my posts and scriptures that are in disagreement with you.