Where does the star in Judaism came from?

[Bishadi]

The Messiah is not the morning star.

Check out Isaiah 14:11. The phrase "morning star" is used in a negative context, to refer to the king of babylon.

because the last chapter (the revealing) will unfold just as the war of babylon (selfishness of combined people/ the many head of the beast/capitalistic regimes that secularize the 'first and last' of mankind/ the cities will be destroyed)

the morning star; line of david; is what was mentioned brings in the last chapter; as well, when the truth is known amongst the people; the religions will end as the path to human compassion or the lead in the rearing of out children.

THE TRUTH; removes the religious powers of secularization; the people wil be equal in knowledge and never again with the religions control this globe again....

as God promised (the covenant)

 

[Yid613]

I think when it uses the word 'orient' it is in contrast to 'occident', thus as pointed out by Said, 'The Orient' is anywhere to the east of Europe. Personally I use Levant for the mid-east.

I think that he specifically uses Oriental to mean Levantine Jews (i.e. Yemen, Bilad as Sham, Iraqi etc) as Opposed to Sephardim and Ashkanasim.

Iraqi and Syrian (Bilad al-Sham) Jews are Sephardim.

Yemenite Jews are very different from Sephardim as they have different traditions.

Most of the Kabbalists where Sephardim, although Oriental Kabbalistic Writings is a very strange way to refer to them. In any case I have not seen the star anywhere in these writings. If you do know of a place it shows up please post a reference.

It’s a Pomegranate, found a pic have a look.
outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2566945810029319295TRxdYj

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yemenite Jews are very different from Sephardim as they have different traditions.

The Yemenite Shabbat service is more than a little interesting. (And the oneg is outstanding!)

 

[Nehustan]

Iraqi and Syrian (Bilad al-Sham) Jews are Sephardim.

Yemenite Jews are very different from Sephardim as they have different traditions.

Most of the Kabbalists where Sephardim, although Oriental Kabbalistic Writings is a very strange way to refer to them. In any case I have not seen the star anywhere in these writings. If you do know of a place it shows up please post a reference.

It’s a Pomegranate, found a pic have a look.
outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2566945810029319295TRxdYj

I thought Sephardim meant an association with Spain and adjoining regions, i.e. North Africa? I was actually going to that, in reply to you pointing out that kabbalah is/was an oral tradition, that it was first codified in Spain, but as you point out 'most of the Kabbalists where Sephardim'. I'm not actually sure when the symbols came about i.e. the tree of life etc. Most of the 'real' kabbalah I have read only uses the alphabet and metaphor, i.e. Zohar,

While we're on the subject of the tree tho', the top six sephira (kether to tipareth) would also seem to mark out a hexagram. I read a paper that traced the tree of life back to Assyria, so it could be a symbol that has been around since Abraham.

 

[Nehustan]

I know wiki is a poor source, but it delineates the differences I had come to understand, and why the term 'oriental' was used by the poster, and why Sephardim is used also...

Mizrahi Jews

 

[Yid613]

I thought Sephardim meant an association with Spain and adjoining regions, i.e. North Africa?

Yes they are Sephardic also. In general those Jews living under Islamic rule where Sephardic and those living under xianity where Ashkenazi.

I was actually going to that, in reply to you pointing out that kabbalah is/was an oral tradition, that it was first codified in Spain, but as you point out 'most of the Kabbalists where Sephardim'.

Not codified as Jewish Law was codified, but they wrote books and pamphlets as an aid for their students. It was not until around the 1700’s or so that it was taught openly. At that time there was an explosion of isms, cults, and movements that corrupted many of these and other Jewish symbols and ideas.

I'm not actually sure when the symbols came about i.e. the tree of life etc. Most of the 'real' kabbalah I have read only uses the alphabet and metaphor, i.e. Zohar,

The Sefiros were seen by the Kabbalists in prophetic visions as archetypal images. The Tree was an image that showed the governmental order of the Sefiros as opposed to concentric circles that show the developmental order.

By the way, which translation of the Zohar are you reading?

While we're on the subject of the tree tho', the top six sephira (kether to tipareth) would also seem to mark out a hexagram.

But is the Star or hexagram an archetypal image seen in a prophetic vision or does it just relate the six leaves of a pomegranate to the six Sefiros of Zeir Anpin (Chesed, Gevurah, Tiferet, Netzach, Hod, and Yesod, the middle six a complete partzuf)? Does it relate a pomegranate’s 613 seeds, mitzos (commandments, good deeds), to Zeir Anpin. There is also a Medrash that says that it was a pomegranate that Adam sinned with not an apple. So is it related to both the decent and the repair? Something I’ll have to look into.

I read a paper that traced the tree of life back to Assyria, so it could be a symbol that has been around since Abraham.

"Ten Sefiros of Nothingness . . . " - Sefer Yetzirah 1:2, Traditionally attributed to Abraham.

 

[Nehustan]

By the way, which translation of the Zohar are you reading?

Well I think the best one I've laid my hands on was via an academic library I'm a member of, the school is in London and called SOAS. Its a well known school which teaches Hebrew and related studies....

I've read a few 'versions' but this has been the best so far...

Lachower, F, and Tisby, I., (1989) translated by Goldstein, D., The wisdom of the zohar: an anthology of texts volume 1, 2 & 3, Littman Library, Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK.

The link is to the paperback, but the copy I access is a nicely bound hardback edition, I think if I was to buy a copy I'd have to find a hardback version. Somehow it wouldn't seem right in paperback.

 

[Nehustan]

"Ten Sefiros of Nothingness . . . " - Sefer Yetzirah 1:2, Traditionally attributed to Abraham.

OOOhhhh, good quote. That's going in my Masters dissertation. Which version (i.e. which book) did you glean that from? I'll check if the library has a copy.

 

[Yid613]

Its a well known school which teaches Hebrew and related studies....

Nice, if you know Hebrew then Aramaic is not that far off. Most of these types of writings are in Aramaic.

I've read a few 'versions' but this has been the best so far...
Lachower, F, and Tisby, I., (1989) translated by Goldstein, D., The wisdom of the zohar: an anthology of texts volume 1, 2 & 3, Littman Library, Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK.

That an anthology not a translation of the text itself. "All translation is commentary" - Aryeh Kaplan, but I still prefer read the text itself, even a translation of it.

OOOhhhh, good quote. That's going in my Masters dissertation. Which version (i.e. which book) did you glean that from? I'll check if the library has a copy.

Aryeh Kaplan , Sefer Yetzirah, The Book of Creation in theory and practice.
http://www.mysefer.com/product.asp?...=cat&strKeywords=&strSearchCriteria=&PT_ID=99

 

[Nehustan]

I'm actually off to the library today. They have three versions, the Kaplan you mention, one by Akiba ben Joseph, and another by Westcott. Do you recommend a version of the Zohar??

 

[Yid613]

I'm actually off to the library today.

Let us know how it goes.

Do you recommend a version of the Zohar??

I started a new thread for my reply
Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions / Abrahamic Religions / Judaism / Do you recommend a version of the Zohar?
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/judaism/67924-do-you-recommend-version-zohar.html#post1215095

 

[Nehustan]

I picked up a couple of version, the one you suggested and another. They'll be of great help in my dissertation. I also picked up another book on the Zohar, but will look for the books you recommend in the other thread.

There's a book I'm waiting for which specifically lloks at cultural diffusion within medicine in Al Andalus between the three faiths therein. It costs £85, so not one I'll be buying any time soon. :no: