Where does psychology end and neurology begin?

[Stevicus]

If someone is said to have some kind of "mental illness," and especially if they take some form of psychotropic medication, does that mean that there's something physically wrong with their brain?

However, when it comes to the physical brain itself, isn't that primarily the domain of neurologists? If brain surgery is required, then a neurosurgeon would perform that task. I don't know if they still do lobotomies, but was that something done by a psychiatrist in the past? Ever since I saw One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, I never could understand the purpose of a lobotomy anyway.

If it's a physical problem, then wouldn't it be better to approach it on that level? Say, if I had severe stomach pain, I might go to the doctor, and they might send me to a specialist, like a gastroenterologist for further examination and tests. They wouldn't send me to a psychologist to discuss my feelings. That may sound nice, but it wouldn't do a thing to fix the physical problem at hand.

If it's not a physical, biological problem that can be discerned or diagnosed through current technology, then what exactly are we dealing with here? Is the human mind and the human brain the same thing? If not, then what exactly is "the mind," if it's not some physical organism?

 

[HonestJoe]

If it's not a physical, biological problem that can be discerned or diagnosed through current technology, then what exactly are we dealing with here? Is the human mind and the human brain the same thing? If not, then what exactly is "the mind," if it's not some physical organism?

While I'm cautious with the brain=computer metaphor is because it's often taken too literally, it does work here. Neurology works on the hardware, psychology works on the software.

 

[Stanyon]

I don't know if they still do lobotomies, but was that something done by a psychiatrist in the past?

Thorazine replaced lobotomies as a temporary chemical lobotomy and was also used to treat people who were having a "bad trip" ( also known as not being able to handle their drugs) from LSD. I think they quit administering thorazine a number of years ago but not sure.
I have a funny and true story about a friend of mine, what he thought was thorazine, and a lot of LSD. I could fill the details in later but it appears that an M&M I found on the floor worked just as well and when the shell melted and the chocolate liquified under his tongue his brain told him (with my encouragement) that the thorazine was working, instant calm. Lol
It was all in his head

 

[syo]

If someone is said to have some kind of "mental illness," and especially if they take some form of psychotropic medication, does that mean that there's something physically wrong with their brain?

I have a mental illness and I'm on medication. My brain works kinda 'strange' (I don't know if that's the proper word) and there are things to me that are 'red flag'.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

If someone is said to have some kind of "mental illness," and especially if they take some form of psychotropic medication, does that mean that there's something physically wrong with their brain?

That's an extremely tough question.

For example, I was prescribed anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medicine.

However what I personally, consider wrong, well one of the things, is that I have a brain like the people from Big Bang Theory. Poor at social skills, great at mathematics. And this brain worked fast and like a battleship. One of the things that may have led me into needing medicine is that I was taking in way too much caffeine and had a bit of a mind crash. If a mind like I had can make calculations like a midrange Personal Computer already, then adding caffeine is much like overclocking it beyond its limits, I suppose.

 

[Valjean]

Neurology and psychology are inextricably intertwined.

 

[tayla]

Is the human mind and the human brain the same thing? If not, then what exactly is "the mind," if it's not some physical organism?

I think the distinction between brain and mind is:

1. The brain is the physical organ having complex circuits and "programs".
2. The mind is a higher level abstract information processing system, using the brain as its substrate.

Both are physical, just as a running computer program and a computer are both physical.

 

[tayla]

If someone is said to have some kind of "mental illness," and especially if they take some form of psychotropic medication, does that mean that there's something physically wrong with their brain?

Some are caused by defects in the brain itself; some are caused by faulty programming of brain structures. For example, a bad attitude can be improved through cognitive training.

 

[tayla]

If it's a physical problem, then wouldn't it be better to approach it on that level? Say, if I had severe stomach pain, I might go to the doctor, and they might send me to a specialist, like a gastroenterologist for further examination and tests. They wouldn't send me to a psychologist to discuss my feelings. That may sound nice, but it wouldn't do a thing to fix the physical problem at hand.

I think modern psychology understands that some psychological problems have a physical cause; something malfunctioning in the brain itself.

 

[Heyo]

Your distinction is correct and HonestJoe's analogy is also apt. The brain is the hardware and the mind is the software. What is special with the brain is that the structure of the brain represents it's function and that the usage of the brain can alter it's structure.
So a physical intervention, like brain surgery or a drug, can alter the mind (mood, alertness, mental health) and a mental intervention (training, talk therapy, hypnosis) can alter the brain.

 

[sealchan]

If someone is said to have some kind of "mental illness," and especially if they take some form of psychotropic medication, does that mean that there's something physically wrong with their brain?

However, when it comes to the physical brain itself, isn't that primarily the domain of neurologists? If brain surgery is required, then a neurosurgeon would perform that task. I don't know if they still do lobotomies, but was that something done by a psychiatrist in the past? Ever since I saw One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, I never could understand the purpose of a lobotomy anyway.

If it's a physical problem, then wouldn't it be better to approach it on that level? Say, if I had severe stomach pain, I might go to the doctor, and they might send me to a specialist, like a gastroenterologist for further examination and tests. They wouldn't send me to a psychologist to discuss my feelings. That may sound nice, but it wouldn't do a thing to fix the physical problem at hand.

If it's not a physical, biological problem that can be discerned or diagnosed through current technology, then what exactly are we dealing with here? Is the human mind and the human brain the same thing? If not, then what exactly is "the mind," if it's not some physical organism?

From my point of view a person can self-diagnose through recognizing where they have an unusual level of maladaptive emotionality above that of most others in a specific context. But even here it cannot be said immediately whether the problem is genetic, disease and/or experiential. And as with many physical problems the problem can also be a defining feature in ones life, even becoming super-adaptive and granting special recognition and status.

 

[sealchan]

If someone is said to have some kind of "mental illness," and especially if they take some form of psychotropic medication, does that mean that there's something physically wrong with their brain?

However, when it comes to the physical brain itself, isn't that primarily the domain of neurologists? If brain surgery is required, then a neurosurgeon would perform that task. I don't know if they still do lobotomies, but was that something done by a psychiatrist in the past? Ever since I saw One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, I never could understand the purpose of a lobotomy anyway.

If it's a physical problem, then wouldn't it be better to approach it on that level? Say, if I had severe stomach pain, I might go to the doctor, and they might send me to a specialist, like a gastroenterologist for further examination and tests. They wouldn't send me to a psychologist to discuss my feelings. That may sound nice, but it wouldn't do a thing to fix the physical problem at hand.

If it's not a physical, biological problem that can be discerned or diagnosed through current technology, then what exactly are we dealing with here? Is the human mind and the human brain the same thing? If not, then what exactly is "the mind," if it's not some physical organism?

The mind is a complex, adaptive system composed of the brain as it resides in a body as it interconnects with other brain bodies via a sensory world using language and culture to intercommunicate.

 

[sealchan]

While I'm cautious with the brain=computer metaphor is because it's often taken too literally, it does work here. Neurology works on the hardware, psychology works on the software.

I think one can go a long ways with this if one sees the neuron and its ability to form sympathetic mutually inhibitory or excitatory circuits as neurology at its "highest" level. Self-awareness of conscious states reported by an individual would be the lowest form of psychology such as color perception.

 

[sealchan]

That's an extremely tough question.

For example, I was prescribed anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medicine.

However what I personally, consider wrong, well one of the things, is that I have a brain like the people from Big Bang Theory. Poor at social skills, great at mathematics. And this brain worked fast and like a battleship. One of the things that may have led me into needing medicine is that I was taking in way too much caffeine and had a bit of a mind crash. If a mind like I had can make calculations like a midrange Personal Computer already, then adding caffeine is much like overclocking it beyond its limits, I suppose.

We all have to second guess doctors when they prescribe long term medication even for such things as simple digestive issues. Diet is often a greatly ignored factor. Food is, after all, a form of medication.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

We all have to second guess doctors when they prescribe long term medication even for such things as simple digestive issues. Diet is often a greatly ignored factor. Food is, after all, a form of medication.

Well, I do have an update on this thread.

I came out as transgender, which has boosted my mood, outlook, etc. I hope to eventually look passing. Now I'm not saying it's for everyone, it isn't. But it's something I had to figure out on my own pretty much.

 

[ChristineM]

Neurology works on the physical brain
Psychology works with the mind.

Tough distinction, without the brain there is no mind, without the mine the brain is broken.

@HonestJoe expressed it well with

Neurology works on the hardware, psychology works on the software.

 

[sealchan]

Well, I do have an update on this thread.

I came out as transgender, which has boosted my mood, outlook, etc. I hope to eventually look passing. Now I'm not saying it's for everyone, it isn't. But it's something I had to figure out on my own pretty much.

One thing that was extremely helpful and psychologically liberating for me was discovering the term introverted vs extroverted. Being introverted was much, much better than being shy. Taking my first Myers-Briggs Type test helped me to understand how my peculiarities were shared with many others.