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Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
That is only Christian dogma. It is not what the Bible says, it is how these Christians 'interpret' what the Bible says.

When I was a Christian, I was taught that faithful Christians would go immediately to heaven to be with Jesus after they died. I knew other Christians who believed that all believers in Jesus would be sleeping in their graves, waiting for a future rapture event. However, they couldn't agree on when this future rapture event was supposed to happen (pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation). It was always a contentious argument between them.

This situation is really sad, but I don't know what can be done about it, since Christians are so set in their beliefs, as you know. All you can do is what you can do by helping the few earthbound spirits you encounter, but I cannot imagine how many more of them there are wandering around lost and scared, or what will happen to them. :(

Yes, it can be a sad situation. It's even more distressing for me when I can't convince some of them to crossover. I know that they will continue to wander aimlessly, and there's nothing I can do about it. I've gone back to where some of these spirits are, but they still refuse to crossover. It breaks my heart.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
I still don't understand what you think that Bible verse means. Do you believe there are earthbound spirits?

I believe that this world will be much better in the future, but there will always be pain and suffering and physical death on earth since that is the nature of this physical world.

I don't understand why anyone would want to live forever on earth. According to my beliefs there are much better worlds waiting for us after we die.

“As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range. None can reckon or comprehend them except God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, pp. 151-152
“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329

Revelation 12:7-9

Play
7 And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el*a and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail,* nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragonb was hurled, the original serpent,c the one called Devild and Satan,e who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;f he was hurled down to the earth,g and his angels were hurled down with him.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Did you see the South park episode where some people arrive in Hell and get an orientation talk? I add that Satan is not so bad and nor is Hell. And heaven is ... well read on.

Anyway, the orientation guy (who has a clipboard) says "Welcome to Hell". One of the new arrivals says "Hey, I'm Christian, I shouldn't be here!". The guy says, "I'm sorry, you didn't get it right. The ones that got it right and are in heaven are ... [pause to consult clipboard] ... the Mormons!".

In a later episode we get a glimpse of Heaven, filled with Mormons who are so so nice and do family oriented things all the time.
Did you ever read the Baha'i jokes I posted about Heaven? In case you did not see them, here they are.

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.

"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"

"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!

"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"

"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Did you see the South park episode where some people arrive in Hell and get an orientation talk? I add that Satan is not so bad and nor is Hell. And heaven is ... well read on.

Anyway, the orientation guy (who has a clipboard) says "Welcome to Hell". One of the new arrivals says "Hey, I'm Christian, I shouldn't be here!". The guy says, "I'm sorry, you didn't get it right. The ones that got it right and are in heaven are ... [pause to consult clipboard] ... the Mormons!".

In a later episode we get a glimpse of Heaven, filled with Mormons who are so so nice and do family oriented things all the time.

No, I haven't seen it. It sounds funny, though.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Did you ever read the Baha'i jokes I posted about Heaven? In case you did not see them, here they are.

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.

"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"

"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!

"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"

"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."

I was just about to ask you to post these jokes in response to his post.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Revelation 12:7-9
Play
7 And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el*a and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail,* nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragonb was hurled, the original serpent,c the one called Devild and Satan,e who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;f he was hurled down to the earth,g and his angels were hurled down with him.
What do you think those verses mean and how are they related to what I said?
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Just because Jesus was speaking to His disciples that does not mean that the verse does not apply to everyone.
Much of the New Testament is Jesus speaking to His disciples, but they don't only apply to the disciples.

There are no Bible verses that say that anyone who dies will live on Earth forever.
Psalm 37:11
General
11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
;
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
john 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son,t so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Psalm 37:11
11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
Those Bible verses do not say that meek people who have died will rise from their graves and live on Earth forever.
Those verses are referring to the meek people who are LIVING on Earth after Christ returns and their progeny.
It is those people who will inherit the Earth.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Did you ever read the Baha'i jokes I posted about Heaven? In case you did not see them, here they are.

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.

"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"

"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!

"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"

"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."

:)

There's a line at the Pearly Gates and three men with their wives (don't ask me why, the joke needs it) are waiting. St Peter addresses the first man. "You can't come in, you spent your whole life pursuing money. You even married a woman called Penny". He turns to the second man. "You were a drunkard all your life. You even married a woman called Brandy. You can't come in." The third guy turns to his wife and says "Come on Fanny, let's get out of here!"
 

cataway

Well-Known Member

John 11:24-25

Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

John 5:29

And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." humm, odd that the evil ones also went to heaven
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
John 11:24-25
Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
That means that whoever believes in Jesus will never die. He will be raised as a spiritual body and live in heaven forever.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

John 5:29
And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." humm, odd that the evil ones also went to heaven
That's right. Those who have done good will be raised to eternal life, which mean nearness to God, but those who have done evil will be judged by God.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
That means that whoever believes in Jesus will never die. He will be raised as a spiritual body and live in heaven forever.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!


That's right. Those who have done good will be raised to eternal life, which mean nearness to God, but those who have done evil will be judged by God.
that's what you ''want'' to have happen. at best ,there is a resurrection , the dead live again here on earth . if they then prove worthy , living with out sin. they will continue to live. out of the billions of people that have lived or even will yet be born and live ,very few will be asked to serve in the kingdom seat of government. they are the ones that make up the 144,000.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
that's what you ''want'' to have happen.
No, it is what the Bible says will happen. That has nothing to do with what I want.
at best ,there is a resurrection , the dead live again here on earth . if they then prove worthy , living with out sin. they will continue to live. out of the billions of people that have lived or even will yet be born and live ,very few will be asked to serve in the kingdom seat of government. they are the ones that make up the 144,000.
There will be no resurrection of dead bodies back to physical life so they can continue to live on earth forever. These are JW doctrines and they are not supported by the Bible, which is why most Christians don't believe them. These beliefs came about by interpreting Bible verses to mean what they don't mean. Anyone can do that.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
No, it is what the Bible says will happen. That has nothing to do with what I want.

There will be no resurrection of dead bodies back to physical life so they can continue to live on earth forever. These are JW doctrines and they are not supported by the Bible, which is why most Christians don't believe them. These beliefs came about by interpreting Bible verses to mean what they don't mean. Anyone can do that.
i dont know how many you need so here's a bunch . have more if you need them unless you are a Sadducee

Luke 20:27

However, some of the Sadducees, those who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

SORT BYRelevanceBible Book

Search Results​

John 5:29

and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Hebrews 11:35

Women received their dead by resurrection, but other men were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection.

Acts 2:32

God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.

Matthew 22:23

On that day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

Mark 12:18

Now the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

Mark 12:23

In the resurrection, whose wife will she be? For the seven had her as a wife.”

1 Corinthians 15:13

If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised up.

1 Corinthians 15:42

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption.

Hebrews 6:2

the teaching on baptisms and the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and everlasting judgment.

Matthew 22:28

So in the resurrection, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her as a wife.”

Luke 20:33

Consequently, in the resurrection, whose wife will she become? For the seven had her as a wife.”

John 11:24

Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

Philippians 3:11

to see if at all possible I may attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.

Matthew 22:30

for in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but they are as angels in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:21

For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Matthew 22:31

Regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, who said:

Luke 20:36

In fact, neither can they die anymore, for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection.

Acts 23:8

For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all.

Revelation 20:5

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Luke 14:14

and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous ones.”

Acts 2:24

But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.

Acts 26:23

that the Christ was to suffer and that as the first to be resurrected from the dead, he was going to proclaim light both to this people and to the nations.”

2 Timothy 2:18

These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some.

Acts 4:2

These were annoyed because the apostles were teaching the people and were openly declaring the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

John 6:54

Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day;

Philippians 3:10

My aim is to know him and the power of his resurrection and to share in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his,

John 6:44

No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day.

Acts 2:31

he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption.

Acts 17:32

Now when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said: “We will hear you again about this.”

Acts 24:15

And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Romans 6:5

If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:12

Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

Luke 20:35

but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Acts 4:33

And with great power the apostles continued giving the witness about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and undeserved kindness was upon them all in large measure.

Romans 1:4

but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead—yes, Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
i dont know how many you need so here's a bunch . have more if you need them unless you are a Sadducee

Luke 20:27

However, some of the Sadducees, those who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

SORT BYRelevanceBible Book

Search Results​

John 5:29

and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Hebrews 11:35

Women received their dead by resurrection, but other men were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection.

Acts 2:32

God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.

Matthew 22:23

On that day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

Mark 12:18

Now the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

Mark 12:23

In the resurrection, whose wife will she be? For the seven had her as a wife.”

1 Corinthians 15:13

If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised up.

1 Corinthians 15:42

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption.

Hebrews 6:2

the teaching on baptisms and the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and everlasting judgment.

Matthew 22:28

So in the resurrection, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her as a wife.”

Luke 20:33

Consequently, in the resurrection, whose wife will she become? For the seven had her as a wife.”

John 11:24

Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

Philippians 3:11

to see if at all possible I may attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.

Matthew 22:30

for in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but they are as angels in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:21

For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Matthew 22:31

Regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, who said:

Luke 20:36

In fact, neither can they die anymore, for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection.

Acts 23:8

For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all.

Revelation 20:5

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Luke 14:14

and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous ones.”

Acts 2:24

But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.

Acts 26:23

that the Christ was to suffer and that as the first to be resurrected from the dead, he was going to proclaim light both to this people and to the nations.”

2 Timothy 2:18

These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some.

Acts 4:2

These were annoyed because the apostles were teaching the people and were openly declaring the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

John 6:54

Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day;

Philippians 3:10

My aim is to know him and the power of his resurrection and to share in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his,

John 6:44

No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day.

Acts 2:31

he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption.

Acts 17:32

Now when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said: “We will hear you again about this.”

Acts 24:15

And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Romans 6:5

If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:12

Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

Luke 20:35

but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Acts 4:33

And with great power the apostles continued giving the witness about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and undeserved kindness was upon them all in large measure.

Romans 1:4

but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead—yes, Jesus Christ our Lord.
What is the MEANING of resurrection?

Resurrection: resurrection› the act of bringing something that had disappeared or ended back into use or existence
resurrection

The Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of Decomposition. That belief came about because of a misinterpretation of scriptures.

God made the natural laws, and Decomposition is one of the natural laws. Bodies die and decompose and the soul (spirit) then passes from this world into another world. The man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought is what constitutes man.

The death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another and when the soul passes from this world into the spiritual world it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements.

The following quote explains what happens to our body and our spirit (soul) when we die. It's pretty straightforward and was written by a Christian.

The Resuscitation of Man from the Dead and His Entrance into Eternal Life​
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
These are JW doctrines and they are not supported by the Bible, which is why most Christians don't believe them. These beliefs came about by interpreting Bible verses to mean what they don't mean. Anyone can do that.

It's no surprise that Christians disagree on how to interpret the Bible and that they can never agree on what happens to people after they die.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (Jn. 11:14 KJV)

And saying this, he shouted loudly, "Lazarus! Here! Come out!" (Jn. 11:43 Pbro. Guillermo jünemann beckchaefer)

Jesus had the ability to resonate his voice at the frequency of those who had departed. The spirit of Lazarus lingered close to his body—typically, this occurs with most individuals. Many glimpse the true reality of the material world and move on, but others stay tethered to their traumas, bound to this realm.
(Mark 5:41, 42) 41Then, taking the hand of the child, he said to her: “Talʹi·tha cuʹmi,” which, when translated, means: “Little girl, I say to you, get up!” 42 And immediately the girl rose and began walking. (She was 12 years old.) . . .

(Luke 7:14, 15) 14 With that he approached and touched the bier, and the bearers stood still. Then he said: “Young man, I say to you, get up!” 15 And the dead man sat up and started to speak, and Jesus gave him to his mother.

You think Lazarus was maybe hard of hearing?
Why do you think Jesus "shouted loudly" to Lazarus, but on other occasions, he didn't?

Also, where did you get this - "The spirit of Lazarus lingered close to his body—typically, this occurs with most individuals. Many glimpse the true reality of the material world and move on, but others stay tethered to their traumas, bound to this realm."

I don't see it in scripture, so can you present your source please?
 
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