What's the story with Romney?

[tytlyf]

It was definitely a booboo, but "serious"?

You don't suppose that Brits would take sides in our election do you?

Have a source for that one?

Really, this whole flap just looks like Dems looking for confirmation that Romney is a less competent version of the Devil incarnate.
Will the same people who highly weight this gaffe apply the same standard to Obama's recent.....
[youtube]6j8XhQfvpW8[/youtube]
Obama: If You've Got a Business, You Didn't Build That ... - YouTube

Of course, Obama's apologists will be quick to give reasons for this duesy of a brain fart, but it is what it is....a major blunder.
Now, please people....stop putting me in the position of defending a guy who wears magic underwear, OK?

There's no such thing as "Obama apologists." Americans that can take information from multiple sources and form a sound conclusion aren't making things up, they're stating fact. Please continue adding to the conversation like you're the representative of all things Libertarian. Maybe you should run.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's no such thing as "Obama apologists."

Naw...I see Dems bending over backwards to explain away his every gaffe, while making as much as they can of Romney's.
I'm convinced that caring about one's party & it's chosen one creates illusions. I would not be immune either, but for my lack
of caring about Gary Johnson's win, since I know he won't.

Americans that can take information from multiple sources and form a sound conclusion aren't making things up, they're stating fact.

Hah! Facts? Politics doesn't use those, only smoke, mirrors, innuendo, cheer leading, snark & pandering.

Please continue adding to the conversation like you're the representative of all things Libertarian. Maybe you should run.

Even if I wanted a political role, I'm even more unelectable than most Libertarians.

 

[Revoltingest]

No need. I think the speech was taken horribly out of context by repugs... which is why Obama corrected them in his response.

That's too easy a dismissal of what Obama was up to. Sure, sure, it's clear that he mis-spoke in an brilliantly blunderful gaffe. But what I find so offensive about his speech (yes, I saw the whole thing) is not the accidental statement that someone else built my business. Rather, it's that he wants to give the false impression that there's a political dispute between Dems & Pubs about whether infrastructure is necessary for business. Also, he earlier also poo pooed the idea that entrepreneurs got where they did by hard work & smarts. So his gaffe did echo his intended message. Moreover, I've even heard some of Obama's fans (on NPR & in person) agree that those who built businesses don't really deserve their success because they're so dependent upon government. I see it as laying the emotional foundation to raise taxes upon people whom he portrays as not deserving the fruits of their business. Just why this offends so much might not be apparent to those who never created businesses.

What I find fascinating is that so many cannot even face the existence of his gaffe.

 

[tytlyf]

What I find fascinating is that so many cannot even face the existence of his gaffe.

I admitted it wasn't the best choice of words to get the point across, but it was blown out of proportion by the right-wing machine. I'd say the latest gaffe and flip-flop with Robme in London is a tad bit more important and relevant.

 

[Revoltingest]

I admitted it wasn't the best choice of words to get the point across, but it was blown out of proportion by the right-wing machine. I'd say the latest gaffe and flip-flop with Robme in London is a tad bit more important and relevant.

Of course!
I'll bet both of your big toes that every Pub says Obama's gaffe was worse, & every Dem says Romney's was.

 

[tytlyf]

Of course!
I'll bet both of your big toes that every Pub says Obama's gaffe was worse, & every Dem says Romney's was.

Exactly, and that's the problem. Obama's was a fabricated gaffe, Romney's was not. More reason people need to fact check where they get their information from. The only people calling Obama's a gaffe are Faux, Rushy and other right-wing sites.

 

[Revoltingest]

Exactly, and that's the problem. Obama's was a fabricated gaffe, Romney's was not. More reason people need to fact check where they get their information from. The only people calling Obama's a gaffe are Faux, Rushy and other right-wing sites.

I got my info from listening to Obama's speech.
Was that an unreliable source?

Really, it would be easier for you if you admitted that Obama is not the silver tongued genius claimed by MSNBC, NPR, NYT, WaPo, etc.
And Romney isn't Satan's spawn in magic underwear. Come on.....isn't it really about agenda? You pick whom you agree with. There's
no need to ignore your guy's faults & flubs, & attack the other guy for things which don't really matter to you. That distracts from
issues....which is playing their game.

 

[tytlyf]

I got my info from listening to Obama's speech.
Was that an unreliable source?

Interesting, because I didn't hear what the right-wing machine is harping on. I think any intelligent human could understand what he was referring to. If you buy a Chick-fil-A franchise restaurant, could you claim that "someone else didn't make that happen?"

Really, it would be easier for you if you admitted that Obama is not the silver tongued genius claimed by MSNBC, NPR, NYT, WaPo, etc.

Not sure where they say he's the silver tongued genius. Back it up.

 

[Apex]

They hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That's too easy a dismissal of what Obama was up to. Sure, sure, it's clear that he mis-spoke in an brilliantly blunderful gaffe. But what I find so offensive about his speech (yes, I saw the whole thing) is not the accidental statement that someone else built my business. Rather, it's that he wants to give the false impression that there's a political dispute between Dems & Pubs about whether infrastructure is necessary for business.

Oh come on now. Not only was it taken completely out of context but it's plain as the nose on your face the repugs fed off a one liner without actually putting what he said into context. The speech had nothing to do with small or big business owners not doing X. It had to do with them not doing it by themselves. In fact the entire speech he touched on making sure business owners continue doing what they do. Here's the speech in its original context....and none of it had to do with him demonizing business owners....

[youtube]192oEC5TX_Q[/youtube]
Obama: If you've been successful you didn't get there on your own - YouTube

And for all those rallying against him on this non issue....including the new (joe the plumber) in that TV add....that guys actually DID get help growing his business. He got it from the local government. In fact if you watched him on FAUX he actually agreed with the president...which seemed to be a 180 from that Romney TV add....

[youtube]4xuJiT2sHPs[/youtube]
Uh Oh: Romney's 'You Didn't Build That' Attack Ad... - YouTube

Moreover, I've even heard some of Obama's fans (on NPR & in person) agree that those who built businesses don't really deserve their success because they're so dependent upon government.

I agree that they deserve the success but it's also true that many of them in fact do rely or have relied on government (local and federal) to assist them in growing their business.

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh come on now. Not only was it taken completely out of context but it's plain as the nose on your face the repugs fed off a one liner without actually putting what he said into context.

I'm not addressing how others saw or spun the speech. I deal only with I personally see. And I see a gaffe. It's a fascinating one because I'm
sure he would rather have worded it differently, but the message of the single out of context sentence still resonates with the rest of his speech.
The gist of it was (as I see it) that entrepreneurs don't work harder & aren't smarter, but they're just luckier, & they depend upon government for
infrastructure to build a business. It all paints a picture that they don't much deserve their consequent wealth, setting the stage for raising taxes on them.
I'm not alone in this, nor is it a strictly partisan view, since I've heard similar sentiments from people who actually agree with the misinterpretation.

The speech had nothing to do with small or big business owners not doing X. It had to do with them not doing it by themselves. In fact the entire speech he touched on making sure business owners continue doing what they do. Here's the speech in its original context....and none of hit had to do with him demonizing business owners....

If one parses his words carefully, that makes sense. But I consider why he said what he said, & see the reasons stated above.
There's no argument about his wanting to raise taxes on the wealthier among us, but there will be opposition to it.
He's trying to bolster his position.

And for all those rallying against him on this non issue....including the new (joe the plumber) in that TV add....that guys actually DID get help growing his business. He got it from the local government. In fact if you watched him on FAUX he actually agreed with the president...which seemed to be a 180 from that Romney TV add....

I can't speak for them. But I agree that his gaffe is a non-issue, as are Romney's gaffes.
They're all human, so they all do it. I personally oppose Obama for agenda based reasons.
But then, that's why I won't vote for Romney either.

I agree that they deserve the success but it's also true that many of them in fact do or have relied on government (local and federal) to assist them in growing their business.

This is where I see dishonesty in Obama's speech...creating a controversy where there is none. Pubs are also big big spenders on public works.
You should be railing against us Librertarians, because we're the ones who would scale gov't back....not the party of Fox News.
BTW, I don't give significance to his dishonesty, since Romney has candor & honesty lapses too.
I don't even know how honest my guy (Gary Johnson) is. I care about what I think they'll accomplish in office.
It ain't like I'm going to marry any of them. (Not my type.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Interesting, because I didn't hear what the right-wing machine is harping on.

I haven't heard any commentary on it, other than from NPR.
So my views are my own lowly opinions.

Not sure where they say he's the silver tongued genius. Back it up.

I speak poetically, addressing the continual trumpeting of his intelligence, scholarship & brilliant speaking ability.
Those exact words are not used....that I know of.
How's that for backing it up?

 

[tytlyf]

I speak poetically, addressing the continual trumpeting of his intelligence, scholarship & brilliant speaking ability.

You act like those qualities are bad things.

Let's all remember Faux propaganda Technique #12

12. Disparaging Education.
"There is an emerging and disturbing lack of reverence for education and intellectualism in many mainstream media discourses. In fact, in some circles (e.g. Fox), higher education is often disparaged as elitist. Having a university credential is perceived by these folks as not a sign of credibility, but of a lack of it. In fact, among some commentators, evidence of intellectual prowess is treated snidely and as anti-American. Education and other evidence of being trained in critical thinking are direct threats to a hive-mind mentality, which is why they are so viscerally demeaned."

 

[Skeptisch]

Education and other evidence of being trained in critical thinking are direct threats to a hive-mind mentality, which is why they are so viscerally demeaned."

Seeing that Romney is a person of deep religious convictions he must have a special recipe that prevents reality from interfering with his faith.

Here is a comment from another one of those “wonderful” GOP presidential candidates.

"President Obama said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob! There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to the test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor trying to indoctrinate them. 62 percent of kids who enter college with some sort of faith commitment leave without it."

 

[Revoltingest]

You act like those qualities are bad things.

Geeze....you read that?
They're great qualities, but I just don't see them in Obama

Let's all remember Faux propaganda Technique #12
12. Disparaging Education.
"There is an emerging and disturbing lack of reverence for education and intellectualism in many mainstream media discourses. In fact, in some circles (e.g. Fox), higher education is often disparaged as elitist. Having a university credential is perceived by these folks as not a sign of credibility, but of a lack of it. In fact, among some commentators, evidence of intellectual prowess is treated snidely and as anti-American. Education and other evidence of being trained in critical thinking are direct threats to a hive-mind mentality, which is why they are so viscerally demeaned."

What is the obsession with Fox News? I don't even watch them.

MSNBC debate point #1:
Respond to criticism of Obama: Creating a straw man by mischievously misinterpreting the statement.

Is MSNBC debate point #2 (accuse his foes of racism) next?

 

[Cassiopia]

The degree to which education and critical thinking are looked down on and discouraged by the most popular media in America (and elsewhere) is indeed worrying.
Not quite as worrying as having another brain doner in the White-house though..

 

[Revoltingest]

Seeing that Romney is a person of deep religious convictions he must have a special recipe that prevents reality from interfering with his faith.

That pretty much sums up all faiths. If beliefs meshed with reality, they wouldn't be called "faith".
Remember that Obama believes that a Jewish zombie is God's spawn, & Biden drinks Jesus' blood.
I say that it's about time for some real diversity...how about an atheist for prez?

Note: Nothing against my fundie friends, but some posts just beg for a snarky unbeliever response.

 

[Skeptisch]

They're great qualities, but I just don't see them in Obama

That’s the problem, some of us do see them, others don’t!

 

[Skeptisch]

I say that it's about time for some real diversity...how about an atheist for prez?

Right on! But how do you know we don’t have one right now?

 

[Revoltingest]

Right on! But how do you know we don’t have one right now?

What a sinister suggestion!
But I don't think a real atheist could sit thru all those interminable Rev Wright sermons.