What Questions come to your mind when reading Quran 3:7?

[Apostle John]

Do you believe Satan literally and physically exists as a person?

Not as a person but definitely as an angel. I don’t think He’s made up of atoms.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Not as a person but definitely as an angel. I don’t think He’s made up of atoms.

Verse 3:7, is exactly about these things. It says, some of the verses of the Book of God are figurative, and their interpretation are unknown to all, except God and His chosen ones. And it brings an example, how only Joseph knew the interpretation of Seven Fat cows and Seven skinny cows.
Is it possible that there are many of such symbols in the verses, but people generally took them literally?
Could Satan be a symbol, and God Himself knows what He means by that exactly?

 

[Apostle John]

Verse 3:7, is exactly about these things. It says, some of the verses of the Book of God are figurative, and their interpretation are unknown to all, except God and His chosen ones. And it brings an example, how only Joseph knew the interpretation of Seven Fat cows and Seven skinny cows.
Is it possible that there are many of such symbols in the verses, but people generally took them literally?
Could Satan be a symbol, and God Himself knows what He means by that exactly?

As I believe it was Satan that communicated through Muhammad I don’t believe any of the Islamic texts are reliable and from God.
Angels are real and not symbols, they’re both good and bad and can manipulate anyone to believe anything. The Bible gives reliable information because of its content and how it came into being, not just through one man but many and written over 1.5 millennia.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

As I believe it was Satan that communicated through Muhammad I don’t believe any of the Islamic texts are reliable and from God.
......

I am wondering where your belief comes from. Isn't this what some priests or Christian leaders have said, and then many of their followers also took their opinions as truth?

 

[Apostle John]

I am wondering where your belief comes from. Isn't this what some priests or Christian leaders have said, and then many of their followers also took their opinions as truth?

My beliefs originate from being an atheist, illiterate of any scripture. I then had a Christian spiritual awakening where I believe the Christian God spoke to me. Purely as a result of that I read the Bible for the first time, so my beliefs weren’t influenced by any person. I’ve been lucky to experience more of the unseen world, including angels in human form and have since studied the Bible and view it authoritative doctrine of the spirit realms.

 

[John D. Brey]

Semantics and interpretations belong in the realm of the conscious mind, but NOT in the realm of the subconscious BRAIN. We must not forget that our subconscious BRAINS are mostly in charge of what we believe and how we behave.

The subconscious brain is interconnected with what Jung called the collective unconscious. This collective unconscious is filled with mythological symbols and universal archetypes collected from the very beginning of man. Those who are most in touch with this collective unconscious are the most open to religious ideas since they (religious ideas) arise precisely from this collective unconscious that our subconscious brain has access too.

The modern materialist lives mostly in his conscious, empirically perceptive mind. He tends to take conscious reality as the epitome of what is real and assumes religious ideas are not real since they're not concrete, material, visual or tactile elements of reality.

Plato stated that: `It is quite hard to realize that every soul possesses an organ better worth saving that a thousand eyes, because it is our only means of seeing the truth . . ..' Popper states that, `Bold ideas, unjustified anticipations, and speculative thought, are our only means for interpreting nature: our only organon, our only instrument, for grasping her' (The Logic of Scientific Discovery,, p. 280). Einstein concurred, `Concepts can never be regarded as logical derivatives of sense impression'. He further stated that, `. . .one cannot build a house or a bridge without the use of scaffolding which, of course, is not part of the structure' (Quoted from Michael Talbot's Mysticism and the New Physics, p. 52.).

With that said, the Quran is a brilliant piece of propaganda that has serious impacts on our subconscious BRAINS, no matter how hard our conscious MINDS huff and puff to work out helpful semantics and interpretations.

My opinion is that the so-called material world as experienced in the conscious mind is the propaganda. Our soul is propagandized by the design of our sense perceptions which, the sense perceptions, are liars through and through.

And again, do you think it at all strange if a man returning from divine contemplations to the petty miseries of men cuts a sorry figure and appears most ridiculous, if, while still blinking through the gloom, and before he has become sufficiently accustomed to the environing darkness, he is compelled in courtrooms or elsewhere [say Religious Forums] to contend about the shadows of justice or the images that cast the shadows and to wrangle in debate about the notions of these things in the minds of those who have never seen justice itself?​

​

Plato, Republic book vii, 517,d.​

John

 

[syo]

if you read verse 3:7 of the Quran, does it cause you to have questions on this verse?

No.

 

[icehorse]

The subconscious brain is interconnected with what Jung called the collective unconscious. This collective unconscious is filled with mythological symbols and universal archetypes collected from the very beginning of man. Those who are most in touch with this collective unconscious are the most open to religious ideas since they (religious ideas) arise precisely from this collective unconscious that our subconscious brain has access too.

The modern materialist lives mostly in his conscious, empirically perceptive mind. He tends to take conscious reality as the epitome of what is real and assumes religious ideas are not real since they're not concrete, material, visual or tactile elements of reality.

Jung (and Plato), did not have the benefit of modern cognitive science when he shaped his ideas. A good, accessible book on the role of the subconscious is "Incognito", by Eagleman. We ignore new findings at our peril.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am wondering what and how many questions come to your mind, when you read this verse.

It has a huge contradiction in itself. Let me quote the Quora translation:

"And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding."

When only Allah known the true interpretation, how can anyone be firm in knowledge? How can anyone believe that is is from any 'Lord'?
This is not a direct message from the so-called Allah. This, as I see, is in third person, something that Muhammad may have said.
Why was this included in Quran, which is supposed to be totally their God's word? You may kindly clear my doubts.

 

[John D. Brey]

Jung (and Plato), did not have the benefit of modern cognitive science when he shaped his ideas. A good, accessible book on the role of the subconscious is "Incognito", by Eagleman. We ignore new findings at our peril.

I'll take a look at it.



John

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It has a huge contradiction in itself. Let me quote the Quora translation:

"And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding."

When only Allah known the true interpretation, how can anyone be firm in knowledge? How can anyone believe that is is from any 'Lord'?
This is not a direct message from the so-called Allah. This, as I see, is in third person, something that Muhammad may have said.
Why was this included in Quran, which is supposed to be totally their God's word? You may kindly clear my doubts.

Very good observation.

This verse can be read and translated in different ways. The Shia, based on their Imams teachings, read it as this:

"He it is Who has sent down the Book upon thee; therein are signs determined; they are the Mother of the Book, and others symbolic. As for those whose hearts are given to swerving, they follow that of it which is symbolic, seeking temptation and seeking its interpretation. And none know its interpretation save God and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say, “We believe in it; all is from our Lord.” And none remember, save those who possess intellect" 3:7

Ayah al-Imran (The Family of Imran, The House of Imran) 3:7

www.islamawakened.com

 

[Aupmanyav]

"He it is Who has sent down the Book upon thee; therein are signs determined; they are the Mother of the Book, and others symbolic. As for those whose hearts are given to swerving, they follow that of it which is symbolic, seeking temptation and seeking its interpretation. And none know its interpretation save God and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say, “We believe in it; all is from our Lord.” And none remember, save those who possess intellect" 3:7

Gaping holes in the translation. First no evidence for Allah, no evidence that what Muhammad said was the word of God, 'Firmly tooted in knowledge'! What does it mean? Those who already have their nose cut and can see the Emperor's New Clothes, or belivers have the knowledge, who have already said yes to whatever the book contains. That is OK for you, but not OK for me, since I neither believe in God, nor in the book and nor too on what these aye-sayers say. 'And none remember, save those who possess intellect'. You mean, those who do not believe in what you believe have no intelligence, they are fools. Nice way to dismiss those who have views other than yours.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Gaping holes in the translation. First no evidence for Allah, no evidence that what Muhammad said was the word of God, 'Firmly tooted in knowledge'! What does it mean? Those who already have their nose cut and can see the Emperor's New Clothes, or belivers have the knowledge, who have already said yes to whatever the book contains. That is OK for you, but not OK for me, since I neither believe in God, nor in the book and nor too on what these aye-sayers say. 'And none remember, save those who possess intellect'. You mean, those who do not believe in what you believe have no intelligence, they are fools. Nice way to dismiss those who have views other than yours.

The idea is, just as God had revealed the Quran, likewise He had chosen some men, to reveal to them Only, the true interpretation of the Book. These are called "rooted in knowledge", and the 12 Imams of Shia, claimed to be the ones, God made them, rooted in knowledge, and thus, everyone else who wishes to know its true interpretation must learn it from them, in order to avoid misinterpretation of the Quran.

 

[Aupmanyav]

As I said, it may be OK for you, but for me God, soul and prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations, mahdis are false shamans.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

As I said, it may be OK for you, but for me God, soul and prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations, mahdis are false shamans.

That's understandable.