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What Makes Jesus The Son Of God.The Son Of God Theory.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by bhakthi, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Before Lord Jesus was born, Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary to speak about His birth and told her like this, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the holy child to be born will be called the Son of God.” Mathew;1:35

    When Jesus came to be baptized by John the Baptist in Jordan, heaven opened and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove came down and stayed on Jesus and a voice was heard from heaven, ”This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased”Mark;1:10,11

    Lord Jesus did not pop up like any other religious or political leader.The world was waiting for him.When his star appeard in the sky wise men came from the east looking for the newborn king of Israel.They knew this was extra ordinary child.Many kings and prophets spoke about his coming and they wanted his coming happen in their days.John the baptist once sent his disciples and asked Jesus, 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another ?'" Luke;7:20 Martha confessed to Jesus saying, "Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world." John;11:27.When Philip met Lord Jesus he brought Nathanael to him saying,” We have found him,of whom Moses in the law,and the prophets, wrote." John;1:45 Abraham rejoiced that he would see his day and he saw it and was glad.Moses wrote about him.David called him Lord. Isaiah saw his glory.John the baptist saw him and testified publicly that Jesus was the Son of God.

    When Jesus was on the Mount with Peter James and John Elijah and Moses appeared to them and the same voice head at the time of baptism was heard from the cloud one more time saying,” This is My beloved Son; listen to Him!”.Mark ; 9:4-7

    Jesus himself spoke these words, ”God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved.”John;3:17

    While Lord Jesus was ministering in Jerusalem once he spoke like this,” For whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in the same way.”John;5:19

    No other man can make a claim like this.Lord Jesus said that he can do all things the Father[God] does No prophet, not even Moses or Elijah could ever say something like this.

    This makes Jesus equal with God.

    Another statement Jesus made shows that He is omnipresent like God.Lord Jesus said, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them." Mathew;18:20

    Only God can be present in many different places at the same time.If Jesus was only a man he could not have made this statement.

    Claiming to be the Son of God was the only reason the Jews found to hand Jesus over to Pilate. After Jesus was arrested The High Priest before the council asked him,

    “Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am." Luke;22:70

    When the Jews brought Jesus before the governor they accused him saying, "We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He made Himself the Son of God." John;19:7

    And Jesus did not deny the charge.

    Witnessing the earthquake and the darkness and all that happened at the time of the crucifixion, the Roman centurion said,”This was truly the Son of God.” Luke;23:47

    The Koran says Jesus is the Ruh or the Spirit of God.That makes him one with God. A man’s spirit is not something apart from him.The spirit of a man is that man himself.Just like that God’s Spirit is one with Him.

    Jesus was different from all other human beings for this reason because He came from God.It cannot be said about Adam that he was the the spirit of God.Adam was made out of dust.All other humans have descended from him and possess the Adamic nature.None of them can claim that he is the Spirit of God.Only Jesus was different.

    The first chapter of the gospel of John says,” In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.”John;1:1-3

    Before going to heaven Lord Jesus told his disciples,”I am with you always even to the end of the age.”Mathew ;28 .No man, how great or mighty, could ever say this before he leaves the world that he will be with his family or nation or property forever.Lord Jesus can be in heaven and on earth at the same time. Jesus Christ is Immanuel which means- God Is with us.

    THE SON OF GOD THEORY [MORE]

    “You are my Son.Today I have begotten You.”Psalm; 2 :7. This scripture, God speaks here, is about a Son,whom He has begotten.Threre are many who think,it is about King David,that God is speaking here,because David wrote this Psalm.It was Jesse,who begot David,not God.There is no reason to believe it is about David because,it doesn't make any difference in his life.David had a natural birth and he lived and died like any other Patriarch or Prophet.But like in many other Psalms[ 2,8,16,22,40,68,110 etc] David here, is prophetically speaking about,the Messiah.who is to be begotten of God.It is Jesus Christ who was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God, in the womb of a virgin, and later raised as God's first-born from the dead.

    Again the scripture says; “Unto us a child is born ,unto us a Son is given,……His name shall be called..Wonderful ‘Counselor’,’ Mighty God....”Isaiah;9:6.This child is the same as spoken by Isaiah previously in chapter 7 ”Behold, the the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son ,and shall call His name ‘Immanuel’.[which means God with us] ”Isaiah;7:14.How can a child born in the land of Israel be called ‘Mighty God and Immanuel’? Another scripture tells, ”But you Bethlehem,Ephratha,though you are little among the thousands of Judah ,yet out of you shall come forth,The One to be ruler in Israel. Whose goings forth have been from everlasting.” ”Micah;5:2 Everyone agrees this is a Messianic scripture.We read in the gospel of John, ”In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.And all things were made through Him.”And this is what Micah says “His goings forth are from everlasting.”The word became flesh and dwelt among us”John;1:14.

    All these prophetic words were fulfilled in Jesus Christ . He was born to a virgin by the name of Mary, when she got conceived by the Holy Spirit. When He grew up,He became a powerful Prophet in Israel,and did miracles and signs no one else has ever done.And He spoke the words no one could ever speak.What is written in Isaiah 61 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me because He has anointed Me………was fulfilled through Him.
    Another scripture says,”For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,nor will you allow your Holy One to see corruption” Psalm;16:10.It is clear that David who wrote this Psalm died and was buried,therefore saw corruption.But Jesus about whom this was written didn't see corruption,because when Jesus died, God raised Him from the dead, and seated Him at His right hand .This is what David spoke about in Psalm;110:1” The Lord said to my Lord Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your foot stool”. David foresaw this event in the Holy Spirit and he calls Him Lord, even though He is his son, according to the flesh. Who else is worthy to be seated at the right hand of God other than this Person whom God gave all authority in heaven and earth and who came according to the scriptures.Also see; http://www.gilead.ws
     
  2. propel

    propel New Member

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    I have heard that in the Arabic Bible, the term used for son is 'abd, which means slave or servant, and for father it is rabb, which means lord, or the one who sustains. So I dont think that the terms 'father' and 'son' should be taken lliterally.
     
  3. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Answer by Bhakthi,
    "A virgin shall conceive and bear a Son.His name shall be called Immanuel."Isaiah;7:14
    Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit of God.
    Now Psalm 2 says ."You are my Son today I have begotten you." Psalm;2:1.This is not about the Psalmist as many interpret this.Jesse was David's Father.
    Does that make sense?
     
  4. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 7:14 לָכֵן יִתֵּן אֲדֹנָי הוּא, לָכֶם--אוֹת: הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָאת שְׁמוֹ, עִמָּנוּ אֵל
    KJV: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Exodus 2:8 וַתֹּאמֶר-לָהּ בַּת-פַּרְעֹה, לֵכִי; וַתֵּלֶךְ, הָעַלְמָה, וַתִּקְרָא, אֶת-אֵם הַיָּלֶד
    KJV: And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother.

    You know, several maid's are married... :rolleyes:

    I could go on and point out some other locations where you translate the same word differently, but I don't want to crush the idea that the English translation is divinely inspired.
     
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  5. non-duality

    non-duality Member

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    If we consider God as a father, all men are God's sons and all women are God's daughters. So Jesus is a brother. And I think, Jesus would prefer to be a brother than a Lord. What is wrong to see in him an ordinary human being? Of course his life was extraordinary. But if we look like this on the ones who lived their lives as an example, we know that we, who are also ordinary can become extraordinary.

    To many times people saied, we adore him, so we become liberated. You adore someone else you don't. What has arisen from these attitude in past and in pressent? He/she who doesn't make any effort to love any emeny cannot call him/herselve a Christian.

    Greetings by Martin!
     
  6. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Jesus is God, and he is the Son of God, in I John it says ...the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
     
  7. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Isaaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a SIGN; Behold, a VIRGIN shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Mathew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, THAT IT MIGHT BE FULFILLED shich was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, behold a VIRGIN shall be with child, and shall bring forh a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is GOD WITH US.

    Some (per) versions try to say virgin is young woman, well now;

    The SIGN is that a VIRGIN would conceive, a young woman being pregnant is NOT a SIGN, that happens every day. A VIRGIN conceiving would be a miraculous SIGN.

    If you deny the virgin birth of Christ:

    you are saying that Christ was an illegitmate child , since Mary was not married when He was conceived. (you are calling him a bad name I won't print)

    you are saying that Mary was a fornicator

    you are calling God a liar in Mathew 1:22-23

    you are saying that Christ was not God. (If he had a phusical father, then he was human like you and me)

    you are saying that Christ was a SINNER, because he would have had to have a physical father. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

    Luke 1:34 KJV Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be seeing I KNOW NOT A MAN. Here God is declaring that Mary is a virgin.

    Luke 2:33 KJV And JOSEPH and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. Here God made it clear that Joseph was NOT Jesus' father.

    To deny the virgin birth is to call God a liar and Jesus a sinner and illegitimate child, dont do it!
     
  8. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    joeboonda: Before I respond line by line, tell me, who is Isaiah talking to? Okay, then tell me why he would tell that person that the L-rd would give that person a sign in 750 years?
     
  9. non-duality

    non-duality Member

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    Virgin birth or not. Why do you concentrate so much on such things? Rama also was a virgin birth and many others in Hinduism. Once again I say: you become a christian by following his teachings and not by scolding others. Look inside your heart! Is there loveinside of you for those who have doubt at the virgin birth. If not, don`t tell yourself a Christian!!!
     
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  10. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    I love all folks, sometimes, if one feels they know the truth, they must speak out and defend it. I just telling you what I know because I love you with the love of Christ. Isaiah was prophecying the coming of the messiah to the Jewish people, the sign was that a virgin would conceive, which I believe she did and am simply telling you what I believe to be the truth. You do not have to believe me and thats fine. Peace.
     
  11. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Non-duality;

    I do have an awful memory, so you might forgive me if yours is not a name that 'springs to mind'.

    Nevertheless
    is one of the truly Christian-like phrases I have seen on this forum.

    (Forgive me for changing one or two of your words - I think they may be more reflective of the spirit of the message you wanted to give).
     
  12. non-duality

    non-duality Member

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    The truth you won’t find in a holy book, but only in your heart.

    Hebrew 10:30 "... The revenge is my..." (?!) show clearly that something was been put in God’s mouth. God is unconditional love! Jesus is unconditional love! Jesus taught, forgive them 70 times 7 times. But of course he didn`t mean, after 490 times it`s finished. Believe in the Bible or not. More important is to believe in unconditional love. God doesn’t need a book to talk to us. He neither is unable to talk throught more than just one person to us. He or she can talk to each one of us at the same time. And I’m shure he/she does, but we don’t listen. We are to busy by scolding others who have the wrong believe.

    If at all this doubt means to call God a liar- so what? God doesn’t need our worship. God isn’t angry if we don‘t. God is love and forgiveness. And he/she loves everyone!
     
  13. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Let me know when you figure the person out. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't a hint to the Jewish people, it was a sign meant for one person. Let me know when you want to know who.
     
  14. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says the heart of man is black and wicked, so, I don't look into my heart for the answers, but into God's Holy Word. And though God is love, he is also just, and will judge the wicked and the righteous. Jesus said if you do not believe in him you will not inherit eternal life, but if you do believe and accept his payment for your sins on the cross, you have eternal life. If you believe the BIble, that says Jesus was sinless, he must be born of a virgin and the Holy Ghost or else he would be born of a man and a woman, thus the sin of Adam would pass on to him. So either God is a liar, or he is telling the truth. If you know the truth and don't believe it, there is nothing more that can be done for you. Accept Christ's payment for your sin or pay for it yourself.
     
  15. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Oh, please tell me, sounds very interesting. I have to work tomorrow, so I will try to check back. I believe that although it may have been to a specific person, too, it was really written to ALL of us, as Mathew chapter one says, ...fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. v.20b-23.

    Something interesting to me, is that Jesus, talking to the two disciples on the road to Emmaeus, and later the other apostles, all spoke many many times concerning Jesus that these things must happen that scripture be fulfilled, and they took people through the Old Testament scriptures and showed them all things concerning Jesus and how they were fulfilled. Yet there are those who are still blind to these prophecies even today. Look forward to hearing from you, peace.
     
  16. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    How about we stick just to Isaiah's scripture.

    Who was this sign directed toward - sticking to SCRIPTURE ONLY. Can you do that? Then once you figure that out, explain to me how this sign to one person was meant to show this person he no longer needed to fear the iminent attack that was going to happen against him. Then, explain how this sign was going to show him he was safe after he had been dead 700+ years.

    Thanks.
     
  17. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    I was asking you to tell me who it was to. In Isaiah it is directed to King Ahaz and the house of David, Judah. But I believe it was more than just that. I believe it was a prophecy of Christ's birth and kingdom. I find prophecies of Christ all throughout the old testament, and I believe in the new testament as inspired by God, too. But I can agree to disagree with you whatever that may be.
     
  18. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Oh okay, so here is the big difference.

    You believe, I'm glad you came up with your own contradicting prophecies. So knowing that this sign was meant for KING AHAZ, not the Children of Israel, again STICKING TO SCRIPTURE, how does this sign to King Ahaz happen 700 years after he is dead. Again, we're sticking to the scripture, not your half-baked, idiotic opinion.
     
  19. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    half-baked, idiotic opinion??? Man and they give ME the warnings, lol. This is not MY opinion that I just came up with out of the blue, it is in my Holy Scriptures, in the Bible. Those folks are who you have the beef with, and I am sorry you are angered by my beliefs. I trust in Jesus and his disciples, I believe they knew what they were talking about, you don't have to accept it, I just tell you what I believe, sorry to make you mad. bye.
     
  20. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, fine, then maybe you should learn to read Hebrew so you know when your translators decide to insert their opinion in the scriptures. But if you insist it to be talking about Yeshua, explain how a sign meant for Ahaz wasn't recieved for 700+ years. How can you honestly think this is a sign for Yeshua??? It's clearly for King Ahaz so explain how this sign proves Yeshua is G-d, when:
    1) If you take the appraoch you do, it leaves an unfullfilling prophecy to King Ahaz
    2) Why the word Almah now means virgin instead of young woman, also explain why you translate the word Almah as young woman or maiden instead of virgin in other places.
    3) Why Isaiah wouldn't have been killed for telling Ahaz he wont have to fear his enemies because the L-rd would give him a sign, a guy named Yeshua would be born in 700+ years to show him that his enemies would no longer be feared.
     
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