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"What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."

John1.12

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That's beside the point. How many verses do I have to quote before you simply accept what it says? You have said that you rely not on what other people believe and have said but what the Bible itself says. I've just posted for you what the Bible says. But since you don't like isolated verses that don't support your theology, here are both complete chapters:

Acts.17
[1] Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
[2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
[4] And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
[5] But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
[6] And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;
[7] Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
[8] And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.
[9] And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.
[10] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[12] Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
[13] But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.
[14] And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still.
[15] And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.
[16] Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
[17] Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
[18] Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
[19] And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
[20] For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
[21] (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
[22] Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
[23] For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
[24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
[25] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
[26] And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
[27] That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
[28] For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
[29] Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

[30] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
[31] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
[32] And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
[33] So Paul departed from among them.
[34] Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

Heb.12
[1] Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
[3] For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
[4] Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.
[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
[12] Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
[13] And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
[14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
[15] Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
[16] Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
[17] For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
[18] For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
[19] And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
[20] (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
[21] And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
[22] But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
[25] See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
[26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
[27] And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
[28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.
Just highlighting a verse doesn't tell me how your interpreting it ?? Please tell me your interpretation? I already interpreted this verse by Saying Jesus created Lucifer because Jesus created ALL things. Then I cited the verse in Col 1 .This is how discussing the bible works .
6For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
//That is absolute BS. // Nice. is that Christ like ?
It's as Christlike as calling someone an "anti-Christian." Whenever you post, I am reminded of what Jesus said to John in Mark 9: 36-41.

And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them, Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

John apparently thought Jesus was going to be quite pleased with him for forbidding someone who was not part of their group from performing a miracle in His name. Jesus, however, responded by reminding John that "he that is not against us is on our part" and "shall not lose his reward." To refer to someone as "anti-Christian" is just downright malicious. If you think for one minute that the Man who redeemed your soul is pleased to hear you make that kind of an accusation against someone else, you'd better think again.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Then why does no Christian denomination accept Mormonism as 'Christian ' . Why do no Christian denominations accept Mormonism as Christian? Its not Just me . I'm not the only Christian here that believes this .
For your information, not all other Christians are as hostile towards Mormonism as you are. Many Christians do accept Mormonism as Christian. In the end, though, nobody's opinion of us really matters. It's what God thinks of us that counts. Your opinion of us holds no weight whatsoever.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Just highlighting a verse doesn't tell me how your interpreting it ?? Please tell me your interpretation? I already interpreted this verse by Saying Jesus created Lucifer because Jesus created ALL things. Then I cited the verse in Col 1 .This is how discussing the bible works .
6For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Well, if He created "ALL things," then I guess He created His own Father. Sometimes you just have do use the brain God gave you, Barry.
 

John1.12

Free gift
It's as Christlike as calling someone an "anti-Christian." Whenever you post, I am reminded of what Jesus said to John in Mark 9: 36-41.

And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them, Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

John apparently thought Jesus was going to be quite pleased with him for forbidding someone who was not part of their group from performing a miracle in His name. Jesus, however, responded by reminding John that "he that is not against us is on our part" and "shall not lose his reward." To refer to someone as "anti-Christian" is just downright malicious. If you think for one minute that the Man who redeemed your soul is pleased to hear you make that kind of an accusation against someone else, you'd better think again.
// It's as Christlike as calling someone an "anti-Christian// I said Mormonism is not Christianity.
 

John1.12

Free gift
For your information, not all other Christians are as hostile towards Mormonism as you are. Many Christians do accept Mormonism as Christian. In the end, though, nobody's opinion of us really matters. It's what God thinks of us that counts. Your opinion of us holds no weight whatsoever.
Many Christians do not understand what Mormonism teaches thats why . On the surface Mormonism sounds Christian because it uses similar words .
 

John1.12

Free gift
Well, if He created "ALL things," then I guess He created His own Father. Sometimes you just have do use the brain God gave you, Barry.
' THINGS ' all ' things ' . All ' created ' things . Lucifer was created .By Jesus. God is not a created 'thing ' .
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
' THINGS ' all ' things ' . All ' created ' things . Lucifer was created .By Jesus. God is not a created 'thing ' .
I'm not a "thing" either. I'm a daughter of God. I am His offspring, and He is the Father of my spirit -- just as the Bible says.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
//No, I can't. // Exactly my point.
Duh. Your point is that I believe something that is not found in the Bible. Well, congratulations, Einstein. I could have told you that. And you have told me that it doesn't matter in the slightest to you that the Bible itself says that Jesus said and did many, many things that were never recorded. You continue to ignore that and insist that if something is not in the Bible, it's merely an "invention."
 

John1.12

Free gift
I'm not a "thing" either. I'm a daughter of God. I am His offspring, and He is the Father of my spirit -- just as the Bible says.
The bible does not say this : ( From Lds website )
God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335).

Every person who was ever born on earth is our spirit brother or sister. Because we are the spirit children of God, we have inherited the potential to develop His divine qualities. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can become like our Heavenly Father and receive a fulness of joy.

We were not all alike in heaven. We know, for example, that we were sons and daughters of heavenly parents—males and females. We possessed different talents and abilities, and we were called to do different things on earth.

A veil covers our memories of our premortal life, but our Father in Heaven knows who we are and what we did before we came here. He has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.
 

John1.12

Free gift
Duh. Your point is that I believe something that is not found in the Bible. Well, congratulations, Einstein. I could have told you that. And you have told me that it doesn't matter in the slightest to you that the Bible itself says that Jesus said and did many, many things that were never recorded. You continue to ignore that and insist that if something is not in the Bible, it's merely an "invention."
What the bible doesn't say, we don't ' make up ' . This is bible 101 .
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Did God used to be a man ? simple question?
@Jane.Doe already answered that, Barry. Do you think she was lying? Do you think she doesn't know her religion? About all I can do is say essentially the same thing she already did. And then you'll just continue to repeat what you've been saying all along.

The Church of Jesus Christ has no official doctrine concerning God's beginnings, despite what you may want to believe. There are two non-canonical mentions of this "possibility" that I am aware of. Do you know what "non-canonical" means? There are hundreds upon hundreds of writings by Latter-day Saints. Just because someone (even someone holding a position of some authority) said something at some time, this does not mean that it is LDS doctrine. In 2007, the Church issued the following statement. I have highlighted sentences which I believe to be pertinent to our discussion.
  • Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.
  • Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.
  • Because different times present different challenges, modern-day prophets receive revelation relevant to the circumstances of their day. This follows the biblical pattern (Amos 3:7), in which God communicated messages and warnings to His people through prophets in order to secure their well-being. In our day, President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910-2008) has repeatedly emphasized the importance of the family in our increasingly fractional society. In addition, the Church does not preclude future additions or changes to its teachings or practices. This living, dynamic aspect of the Church provides flexibility in meeting those challenges. According to the Articles of Faith, “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.”
  • Latter-day Saints place heavy emphasis on the application of their faith in daily life. For example, the active participation of Latter-day Saints in their community and worldwide humanitarian programs reflects concern for other people. As Jesus Christ declared, “By their fruits ye shall know them."
  • Individual members are encouraged to independently strive to receive their own spiritual confirmation of the truthfulness of Church doctrine. Moreover, the Church exhorts all people to approach the gospel not only intellectually but with the intellect and the spirit, a process in which reason and faith work together.
  • Those writing or commenting on Latter-day Saint doctrine also need to understand that certain words in the Mormon vocabulary have slightly different meanings and connotations than those same words have in other religions. For example, Latter-day Saints generally view being born again as a process of conversion, whereas many other Christian denominations often view it as a conversion that happens in one defining moment. Sometimes what some may consider an argument or dispute over doctrine is really a misunderstanding of simple differences in terminology.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The bible does not say this : ( From Lds website )
God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335).

Every person who was ever born on earth is our spirit brother or sister. Because we are the spirit children of God, we have inherited the potential to develop His divine qualities. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can become like our Heavenly Father and receive a fulness of joy.

We were not all alike in heaven. We know, for example, that we were sons and daughters of heavenly parents—males and females. We possessed different talents and abilities, and we were called to do different things on earth.

A veil covers our memories of our premortal life, but our Father in Heaven knows who we are and what we did before we came here. He has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.
So what? This doesn't contradict anything the Bible does say. The fact that the Bible doesn't say something doesn't mean that it's false. You just don't seem to be able to get that through your head. And until you can, I'm afraid we are simply going to continue to go around in circles.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
What the bible doesn't say, we don't ' make up ' . This is bible 101 .
And the LDS perspective is that if God speaks, we listen. We don't try to impose a gag order on Him. He never said He's through talking to us, whether you believe that to be the case or not. Bible 102.
 
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