Already covered this point . Its pointless repeating the question because Mormonism teaches God the Father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. These preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth, and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. No Christian in any writings in the entire history of Christianity ever believed this .
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"What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."
- Thread starter John1.12
- Start date
Your particular beliefs seem very Protestant to me. If you have a disagreement with Protestant beliefs, please give me an example of this.
Again, this whole thing isn't even accurate as to actual LDS Christian beliefs!
Again, the above is NOT actually accurate as to LDS Christian beliefs.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Are you kidding? Have you never read nor recited the "Lord's Prayer"? You want that in context? Okay...
Matthew 6:9-13 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
And in John 20:14-17, Jesus reminded Mary that our Father in Heaven is also His Father in Heaven. And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Then correct me if I'm wrong please .
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
So it's not Christian doctrine that we are God's offspring and that He is the Father of our spirits? I'm afraid you are very, very wrong about that.
Acts 17:28-29 states: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Hebrews 12:7-9 states: If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*st*rds, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
If you think this is purely Mormon doctrine and not Christian doctrine, then you need to go back and repeat Remedial Christianity, Barry.
Again Jesus NEVER prayed " OUR father "
After this manner therefore pray YE : Our Father which art in heaven,
Jesus is telling those Jewish Diciples how to pray ..For THEM to say OUR father. ' OUR father ' is how a Jew would address God . Corporately. Its not the ' LORDS prayer ' He never prayed it . He taught THEM to pray that way . A Jewish prayer .
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I can vouch for that. But then what would you or I know, Jane?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
What? Man, you really do have a unique take on Christianity, Barry. It's hard for any rational person to even respond to such idiocy.
Are you seriously saying that God is not our Father in Heaven? That God is not the individual Jesus referred to as "my Father and your Father" in John 20? Jesus was telling Mary that He and she had the same Father in Heaven. Period.
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You are very wrong.
1) LDS Christians don't have any firm doctrinal stance on the Father's past. There's two speculative statements on the matter, which aren't remotely "thus saith the Lord", nor actually talked about in LDS Christian church, and interpretations vary widely on. Zero of those interpretations are what you're thinking with a Creedal background (LDS Christians don't follow the Creeds). Trying to make this a center point argument shows incredible ignorance and isn't remotely an essential topic.
2) LDS Christians believe that Christ and the Father have always existed there's no difference there. We could go into different interpretations of creation, but that's a different topic (and non-essential).
3) Salvation comes through faith in Christ. This is real faith-- the type where you give your heart, might, mind, and soul to Him. Not a whimsical "oh yeah I believe". And this is essential.
4) Having a denominational specific view on some subjects doesn't make one not a Christian.
4)
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Well obviously nothing-- we haven't studied things for decades, attended LDS Christian churches, attended other churches, studied other perspectives, intensely read scripture cover to cover, or anything like that
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
For crying out loud, how many times must we correct you, Barry? You don't pay a damned bit of attention to anything we say. Is there some magic number of times we have to repeat ourselves before you actually acknowledge what we've said?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Then what are you? Don't just say "Christian" because that's not specific enough. There are 2 billion people in the world who profess to be Christians today, Barry. They don't all believe as you do. So, do you belong to a group of which you are the sole member, or what?
Again your quoting a verse . Now please cite where any Christian denomination interprets that verse in Acts 17 the way Mormonism does ? " Remedial Christianity," ok back that up with any Christian denomination that interprets that verse the way Mormons do .?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Why do you think it's appropriate, Barry, to tell either Jane or me what we "mean" when we have not said many of the things you are attributing to us? Do you think that's fair? If you do, then perhaps you won't mind if we start telling you what you mean when you say something.
I'm a bible believing Christian, who approaches the bible as from God . That it is true ,and God cannot lie . Thats all 66 books of the bible. I believe the KJV is the most reliable English translation there is .
Which part is not true in that post ?
Yes you keep saying what I post is not exactly Mormon doctrine. But thats all you say . You don't actually tell me which part of what I post is not true . Its just bluster.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
That's beside the point. How many verses do I have to quote before you simply accept what it says? You have said that you rely not on what other people believe and have said but what the Bible itself says. I've just posted for you what the Bible says. But since you don't like isolated verses that don't support your theology, here are both complete chapters:
Acts.17
[1] Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
[2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
[4] And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
[5] But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
[6] And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;
[7] Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
[8] And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.
[9] And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.
[10] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[12] Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
[13] But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.
[14] And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still.
[15] And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.
[16] Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
[17] Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
[18] Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
[19] And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
[20] For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
[21] (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
[22] Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
[23] For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
[24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
[25] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
[26] And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
[27] That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
[28] For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
[29] Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
[30] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
[31] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
[32] And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
[33] So Paul departed from among them.
[34] Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Heb.12
[1] Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
[3] For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
[4] Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.
[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
[12] Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
[13] And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
[14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
[15] Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
[16] Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
[17] For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
[18] For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
[19] And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
[20] (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
[21] And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
[22] But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
[25] See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
[26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
[27] And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
[28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Telling someone that what they believe is unbiblical is not the same thing as telling them they're "anti-Christian."
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
That's crazy! Jesus never claimed to be our Father! He told us we have the same Father in Heaven as He does.