What is your religious narrative?

[Penumbra]

Most (but not all) religions have a narrative.

The narrative, generally, speaking, can be thought of as three parts:

1) The Problem- a description of the world as being in a less than ideal state
2) The Goal- a description of a paradise or bliss that is preferable
3) The Method- the proposed way to move from the problem to the goal

In other words, most religions propose that there is something fundamentally less than ideal about the universe, and that all or part of it can move to a more ideal state. Sometimes this problem is proposed to exist even if there is an omnipotent deity in the cosmology of that religion.

Examples:

In many Dharmic religions, it is proposed that an infinite number of beings are trapped in ignorance in a potentially endless cycle of death and rebirth/reincarnation (the problem). The ideal state is thought of as Nirvana or Moksha- a blissful state described in various ways (the goal). The method varies, but can be things like eliminating desire, or through insight meditation, or through devotion to a god to eventually merge with it, etc.

In Christianity, it is proposed that there is an omnipotent deity, but that another being caused the world to fall into sin, along with all humanity. Everyone is born with origin sin, and can't do anything about it (the problem). The goal is heaven. The method is that God can forgive sin because of the sacrifice of Jesus for those that believe in this religion.

In Islam, life is a test by God (the problem), to see who gets to go to paradise (the goal), or who will get tortured forever in hell. The method generally involves following the five pillars of Islam and following other guides for behavior.

In some other beliefs, life is like a learning experience, and so there are happy lives and sad lives, and everything in between, for souls to learn various lessons, and then reflect on them between lives, or after several lives.

Various believers or people of various subsets of those religions would tend to phrase things differently, but those are the broad overviews. Some problems are unintended or unexplained, while others are intended (like life is a test, or life is a learning experience).

So the thread question is- what is your religious narrative? If you were to give an elevator pitch to someone about your religious views of the world, and the benefits of your religion for people, what would this be?

 

[1137]

The problem - humanity is not at all what it could be. We think of ourselves as so advanced intellectually when really were barely less emotional amd irrational than other animals, in some cases other animals work together and care more than we do!

The goal - a better humanity. One that can work as a whole to increase our knowledge, our happiness, our comfort, our success, etc. A simpler world where we are free of over invasive leader ship and able to work together as a species for a greater existence.

The method - occult psychology / symbolism and True Will. Helping individuals to see the world as it is, to truly look in the mirror and see who they really are and the power to manipulate your own mind. Then bringing this to a wider and wider scale we can put aside our horribly meaningless differences over money and fictional entities and create a better, freer world.

 

[danieldemol]

Most (but not all) religions have a narrative.

The narrative, generally, speaking, can be thought of as three parts:

1) The Problem- a description of the world as being in a less than ideal state
2) The Goal- a description of a paradise or bliss that is preferable
3) The Method- the proposed way to move from the problem to the goal

1) The problem: Extreme divisions within humanity and the associated conflict
2) The Goal: The establishment of the oneness of humanity.
3) The Method: Investigating reality as a means of wiping away inherited prejudices.

 

[Quintessence]

Contemporary Paganism is one of those religious demographics that generally doesn't suppose there's something "wrong" with the world. There is nothing wrong with the world. The narrative is that the world/nature/universe/gods are beautiful and amazing, therefore we worship and celebrate them. But if I had to spin narratives in the negative as the OP does (not something I like to do in this context, because I feel the central message of any religion should be POSITIVE!), there are two I would tell (in very brief terms):

The First Tale
1) The Problem: people thinking there are problems.
2) The Goal: accept reality for what it is.
3) The Method: quit being an arrogant, judgmental egomaniac.

The Second Tale
1) The Problem: anthropocentrism
2) The Goal: ecocentrism/holism
3) The Method: religious naturalism

 

[Penumbra]

1) The problem: Extreme divisions within humanity and the associated conflict
2) The Goal: The establishment of the oneness of humanity.
3) The Method: Investigating reality as a means of wiping away inherited prejudices.

Since the Baha'i Faith specifically disbelieves in reincarnation and instead believes that people only experience one life in this world before experiencing an afterlife in other worlds, can you elaborate on why the idea of oneness in this world is considered particularly important in the Baha'i Faith?

 

[Ablaze]

The "problem-goal-method" narrative scheme corresponds roughly to the "condition-diagnosis-prognosis-treatment" formula given by the Four Noble Truths in Buddhism:

The Problem: 1) Suffering and 2) the Cause of Suffering: craving and ultimately ignorance

The Goal: 3) Freedom from Suffering: liberation from craving through the elimination of ignorance

The Method: 4) The Eightfold Path: perfection of wisdom (view, intention), cultivation of virtue (speech, action, livelihood), and practice of meditation (effort, mindfulness, concentration)

 

[Penumbra]

Contemporary Paganism is one of those religious demographics that generally doesn't suppose there's something "wrong" with the world. There is nothing wrong with the world. The narrative is that the world/nature/universe/gods are beautiful and amazing, therefore we worship and celebrate them. But if I had to spin narratives in the negative as the OP does (not something I like to do in this context, because I feel the central message of any religion should be POSITIVE!), there are two I would tell (in very brief terms):

The First Tale
1) The Problem: people thinking there are problems.
2) The Goal: accept reality for what it is.
3) The Method: quit being an arrogant, judgmental egomaniac.

The Second Tale
1) The Problem: anthropocentrism
2) The Goal: ecocentrism/holism
3) The Method: religious naturalism

I was also raised primarily in one of the religions that proposes that there is no problem. There's still a narrative, but the problem is considered intentional and important rather than unintentional and something to be resolved.

To clarify, when you say nothing is wrong with the world, what do you make of things like childhood cancer that leads to death, deformities that cause unresolved sadness, and people that suffer terrible fates in one way or another? Is their life beautiful and amazing, or would you say there is something unfortunate about their lives?

 

[Penumbra]

The "problem-goal-method" narrative scheme corresponds roughly to the "condition-diagnosis-prognosis-treatment" formula given by the Four Noble Truths in Buddhism:

The Problem: 1) Suffering and 2) the Cause of Suffering: craving and ultimately ignorance

The Goal: 3) Freedom from Suffering: liberation from craving through the elimination of ignorance

The Method: 4) The Eightfold Path: perfection of wisdom (view, intention), cultivation of virtue (speech, action, livelihood), and practice of meditation (effort, mindfulness, concentration)

In Buddhism, can you elaborate on why you believe the problem exists in the first place?

Why is existence not already perfect?

 

[Ablaze]

In Buddhism, can you elaborate on why you believe the problem exists in the first place?

Why is existence not already perfect?

As already accounted for by the second of the noble truths listed above, the cause of the "suffering" that characterizes this imperfect state is craving and ultimately ignorance.

In the Buddhist paradigm, craving and clinging are inextricably linked. We may thirst after sensual pleasures, further existence (immortality), or non-existence (annihilation), depending on our inclinations. Yet any satisfaction that comes from sensual pleasures, as one example, is fleeting. It will not last. The thirst is never fully quenched. Out of ignorance, beings often expect that indulging in the senses will bring forth happiness, when in actuality, such cravings will not deliver ultimate peace.

Does that answer the question?

 

[Penumbra]

As already accounted for by the second of the noble truths listed above, the cause of the "suffering" that characterizes this imperfect state is craving and ultimately ignorance.

In the Buddhist paradigm, craving and clinging are inextricably linked. We may thirst after sensual pleasures, further existence (immortality), or non-existence (annihilation), depending on our inclinations. Yet any satisfaction that comes from sensual pleasures, as one example, is fleeting. It will not last. The thirst is never fully quenched. Out of ignorance, beings often expect that indulging in the senses will bring forth happiness, when in actuality, such cravings will not deliver ultimate peace.

I'm aware of all of that.

Does that answer the question?

No.

Why does Samsara exist at all? In the Buddhist view, why are there an infinite number of beings stuck in ignorance? Why does the universe not already exist in nirvana/peace?

 

[Ablaze]

Questions on the metaphysical origins of this existence were deemed impractical by the Buddha, who considered "wandering on" in this cycle of suffering (saṃsāra) to be "without discernible beginning" and instead emphasized the quenching of suffering.

Our chasing after cravings is the cause of dissatisfaction in life. We tend to make them the very purpose of life, but when they are unmet, suffering is sure to follow. The Buddha did not deny that there is anything worthwhile to live for, but simply pointed in another direction.

One thing is clear, according to the Buddha: Expecting a definitive answer to metaphysical questions is a major cause for suffering.

 

[danieldemol]

Since the Baha'i Faith specifically disbelieves in reincarnation and instead believes that people only experience one life in this world before experiencing an afterlife in other worlds, can you elaborate on why the idea of oneness in this world is considered particularly important in the Baha'i Faith?

I don't believe that a different afterlife belief should inhibit the one-ness of humanity.

Having said that, there have been some re-incarnation believers (not all), who supposed that since the social status we are born into is a result of the karmic consequences of our actions in a prior life, we should not endeavor to interfere with the operation of justice by improving the material well-being of the down-trodden.

So I would have to say that a different afterlife concept does not necessarily inhibit the one-ness of humanity (that I know of), however certain beliefs about how re-incarnation and karmic consequences should affect our actions (or lack of actions) can potentially inhibit the one-ness of humanity.

As I understand it, the rejection of re-incarnation in Baha'i faith is related to the perceived line of reasoning of whether it is possible for a bad tree to bear good fruits, rather than being specifically tied to the one-ness of humanity.

So I would think it doesn't actually effect the one-ness of humanity.

Do you personally think we have to believe in re- incarnation for the one-ness of humanity to occur?

 

[Penumbra]

Questions on the metaphysical origins of this existence were deemed impractical by the Buddha, who considered "wandering on" in this cycle of suffering (saṃsāra) to be "without discernible beginning" and instead emphasized the quenching of suffering.

Our chasing after cravings is the cause of dissatisfaction in life. We tend to make them the very purpose of life, but when they are unmet, suffering is sure to follow. The Buddha did not deny that there is anything worthwhile to live for, but simply pointed in another direction.

One thing is clear, according to the Buddha: Expecting a definitive answer to metaphysical questions is a major cause for suffering.

I'm aware that the Buddha said that too.

I think perceiving a problem but not being able to explain where that problem comes from is a significant red flag that maybe their proposal about that problem should be reconsidered and that their solution does not fundamentally address the core issue. I tend to view detachment as escapism rather than an ideal solution to life, but people are free to try what they will.

 

[Vouthon]

Since you have outlined my religion's view quite simply already in your OP, this is more a "personal" philosophy, if that's alright, but its also religious because its heavily influenced by my favourite book of the Bible

1. The Problem - Life on earth appears to be empty of ultimate meaning. It is fleeting and changeable. We can't repeat the past or foresee the unpredictability of the future. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. Human life is haunted by disease, death of loved ones, our own impending death and other evils outwith our control. Everyone strives for something more but when that "more" comes and passes, it is often never enough to satisfy us completely and we look for something else. Pleasure, frivolity, wise living, wealth, friendship and so on all provide distractions from the inevitable impermanence of the world and everything in it, however none of them has absolute value. We all go to the same place - the rich, the wise, the good, the evil, the footloose, the prim and proper - and so in the end no one seemingly has advantage over anyone else as far as our ultimate destiny is concerned. You cannot take your money with you when you go, nor your friends or wisdom or anything else. This can lead to despair and unhappiness over the seeming vanity of human existence. It seems like we are all like fish caught in a cruel net, victims of time and chance, helpless in the face of the circumstances which move our lives.

2. The goal - The search for a life that matters, how to live happily and wisely in the midst of so much uncertainty and insecurity without overindulging in unsatisfying and obsessive pleasures on the one hand and needless despair on the other, in a world where nothing lasts and justice is at times arbitrary; a world at times wedded to unrestrained greed for wealth, pleasure and information that can leave you drowning in anxiety and suffering.

3. The Method - Live in the present moment. Take life as it comes. Don't ever be tempted to say, "the old days were better" or dream of a future that you'll never see fulfilled because it exists only in your own imagination. Keep yourself occupied with what gives you joy and brings joy to other people. Live simply. Don't be filled with craving for unsatisfying fleeting pleasures but accept whatever your lot is at any given time with thankfulness and patiently aim to better yourself every day, as a person, at your job or study. Learn to be non-attached to non-essential things and live free from slavery to anything and everything. Recognize and accept that everything is impermanent and empty but live well all the same because it is the only life you or anyone else will ever get and its precious therefore. Understand and accept that while we are not given the ability to choose the outcome of our life (who knows what may happen to us or when our time might be up) we do have power over what we put into the time/destiny that fortune dishes us. That is the most important thing.

 

[Ablaze]

I'm aware that the Buddha said that too.

I think perceiving a problem but not being able to explain where that problem comes from is a significant red flag that maybe their proposal about that problem should be reconsidered and that their solution does not fundamentally address the core issue. I tend to view detachment as escapism rather than an ideal solution to life, but people are free to try what they will.

It's a common misunderstanding that the Buddha taught detachment or escapism. He taught non-attachment, which is neither attachment nor a detached, unemotional state. The difference is subtle, but a through reading of the traditional texts in their original language helps clarify the matter, in addition to practicing with a Buddhist community.

The Buddha explained, in clear and practical terms, the cause of suffering in our very lives, here and now, and his guidance led countless of people to the complete liberation from suffering. Yet to expect some cosmological explanation was deemed by him to be unrelated to the path leading to the cessation of suffering and therefore unworthy of speculation.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't believe that a different afterlife belief should inhibit the one-ness of humanity.

Having said that, there have been some re-incarnation believers (not all), who supposed that since the social status we are born into is a result of the karmic consequences of our actions in a prior life, we should not endeavor to interfere with the operation of justice by improving the material well-being of the down-trodden.

So I would have to say that a different afterlife concept does not necessarily inhibit the one-ness of humanity (that I know of), however certain beliefs about how re-incarnation and karmic consequences should affect our actions (or lack of actions) can potentially inhibit the one-ness of humanity.

Most reincarnation-based religions tend to view escape from the cycle of reincarnation as the main goal.

A smaller share of reincarnation-based religions view the reincarnation cycle as a positive thing for experiencing different things in a number of different worlds, so optimizing any one world may be useful but is not the biggest goal.

As I understand it, the rejection of re-incarnation in Baha'i faith is related to the perceived line of reasoning of whether it is possible for a bad tree to bear good fruits, rather than being specifically tied to the one-ness of humanity.

So I would think it doesn't actually effect the one-ness of humanity.

Can you elaborate on why the Baha'i faith rejects reincarnation?

Do you personally think we have to believe in re- incarnation for the one-ness of humanity to occur?

No.

But it seems that it's a minor goal compared to a larger scope as far as the religion is concerned. People live for how long, 80 years? A soul exists for how long in the religion, indefinitely? So it would be hard to see how oneness of this life is the big goal.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Personally,

1) There is no problem save for a perception that there is one.
2) The goal is goal-less.
3) The method is just a raft entailing observation and reflection to cessation.

 

[Ablaze]

Personally,

1) There is no problem save for a perception that there is one.
2) The goal is goal-less.
3) The method is just a raft entailing observation and reflection to cessation.

This. :namaste

 

[Penumbra]

It's a common misunderstanding that the Buddha taught detachment or escapism. He taught non-attachment, which is neither attachment nor a detached, unemotional state. The difference is subtle, but a through reading of the traditional texts in their original language helps clarify the matter, in addition to practicing with a Buddhist community.

Monks physically remove their self from the rest of the world, avoid romance, avoid fulfilling desires, avoid identifying with anything, and do things like meditate on the bad aspects of the body to appreciate it less, to loosen identification with it.

Lay Buddhist people vary depending on the region. Some believe in pure land Buddhism, that after death following a fairly typical life, a Buddha will bring them to a realm where Enlightenment is guaranteed. Others believe in some sort of rebirth will they will be closer to enlightenment in some way, like the family they will be born into next, etc.

The Buddha explained, in clear and practical terms, the cause of suffering in our very lives, here and now, and his guidance led countless of people to the complete liberation from suffering.

That depends on how you define it. There's no doubt that certain forms of meditation have positive effects, but to say that it leads countless people to liberation from suffering seems to be a faith-based claim rather than a known aspect of the world.

For that to be demonstrated as true, rebirth would have to be demonstrated to be true, and Nirvana would have to be demonstrated to be true. If any of those things is not true, then Buddhists live and die like everyone else, and they may be missing out on experiencing things by avoiding things rather than engaging things.

Yet to expect some cosmological explanation was deemed by him to be unrelated to the path leading to the cessation of suffering and therefore unworthy of speculation.

Buddhism was constructed in a culture where much of the axioms in the religion were already accepted as true things based on contemporary religions, like the existence of Samsara. Attempting to spread the religion in a culture that doesn't already accept those axioms should involve being able to explain or defend those axioms.

 

[lunamoth]

The Problem: humans are alienated from God, each other and the world. This leads to a vicious cycle of shame and blame, which further alienates us.

The goal: to overcome this alienation and live in harmonious relationships and peace.

The solution: to learn to see Christ in ourselves and each other, and in doing so love ourselves and each other, and all of creation. Trust, have faith in, God, Who is love, and is the source of all love, Grace, mercy and healing.