What is the biggest/most negating contradiction in the Bible?

[Autodidact]

I am guessing that you are not supposed to read it but have it read to you.....?
Yes?
Maybe?

Yes, it's especially odd for anyone who values the Bible.

 

[Spiritone]

And?
Does that somehow make them right?
I don't think so.
It is nothing more than an appeal to popularity.

Popularity of who? No one was looking to win a popularity contest.

Wow.
Are we talking about the same Bible?
The Holy Bible?
Genesis to Revelation, the Bible?

In this case since I was talking about Jesus etc. I was referring to the NT

Ah, the Bible does enter into the picture after all.

Isn't that what we are discussing here.

Now if only you can get the Christians to agree on what the written words say.....
Good luck with that.

I'm not here to get anyone to agree on anything.

You are assuming a lot about me. My definition of a Christian is, someone who believes in the teachings of Jesus, who was believed to have been the Christ.

 

[Walkntune]

What an odd assertion.

Do you say this with puzzled curiosity or more as an accusation as if it doesn't make sense?
I suppose if I heard you say it instead of reading what you wrote I might feel the impact and intent a whole lot stronger.

 

[challupa]

Since nothing of what Jesus said is actually done from an eye witness point of view, how do we even know that Jesus said any of them. Paul wrote first and as we have already established, he was not an eye witness. He was building a religion based on a vision he had. He also went about it quite aggressively and was really quite the religious entrepreneur. By the time the gospels were written (later than Paul), they mimiced a lot of what Paul had been teaching. Curious that.

 

[Spiritone]

Since nothing of what Jesus said is actually done from an eye witness point of view, how do we even know that Jesus said any of them. Paul wrote first and as we have already established, he was not an eye witness. He was building a religion based on a vision he had. He also went about it quite aggressively and was really quite the religious entrepreneur. By the time the gospels were written (later than Paul), they mimiced a lot of what Paul had been teaching. Curious that.

The eye witnesses passed on the teaching and it was written later--what do you expect after two thousand years.
I have many questions about Paul, pos. and neg. as they would be understood today. I think he forced his opinions on the leaders of the time and any group not agreeing with him was condemned as wrong and therefore to be stopped at all costs.
All the people mentioned were long distances away from each other and it took a long time for info. to reach others.
Also, it is understandable that the same things being told to different peoples would be interpreted differently.

 

[challupa]

The eye witnesses passed on the teaching and it was written later--what do you expect after two thousand years.
I have many questions about Paul, pos. and neg. as they would be understood today. I think he forced his opinions on the leaders of the time and any group not agreeing with him was condemned as wrong and therefore to be stopped at all costs.
All the people mentioned were long distances away from each other and it took a long time for info. to reach others.
Also, it is understandable that the same things being told to different peoples would be interpreted differently.

Yes I agree with you about Paul. I really don't like how his brand of Christianity is what is being lived today. Some as you say is good, but the negatives are really negative imo. Have you ever read "The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright? It is quite interesting reading. Paints Paul and Jesus in an interesting light.

 

[Danmac]

Danmac, explain this;

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Or this,

“On the evening of the . . . twenty-first of September [1823] . . . I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God . . . .
“While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor.
“He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen; nor do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrists; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom.
“Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person. When I first looked upon him, I was afraid; but the fear soon left me.
“He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.
“He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;


Are these not eyewitness accounts? Do you take them as the gospel truth?

Since the plates which supposedly predated the 1611 King James bible was full of King James English, I would have to say that the plates first belonged to King James. I have done some study on Mormonism and it is easily dismissed as a legitimate religion, at least that is my opinion. Here is a link..... this is the tip of the iceberg.
Problems with the Book of Mormon

 

[Spiritone]

Yes I agree with you about Paul. I really don't like how his brand of Christianity is what is being lived today. Some as you say is good, but the negatives are really negative imo. Have you ever read "The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright? It is quite interesting reading. Paints Paul and Jesus in an interesting light.

I don't remember reading that book but through the years I have read a lot pertaining to the subject. I will check out as I like to hear all points of view.
The whole "Pious" image that is given to us by the leaders of the Christian religions is in my opinion, very misleading. To live a good spiritual life you don't have to be a pious image. All that we do depends on our attitude toward our fellow human beings. That was the message imo.

 

[challupa]

I don't remember reading that book but through the years I have read a lot pertaining to the subject. I will check out as I like to hear all points of view.
The whole "Pious" image that is given to us by the leaders of the Christian religions is in my opinion, very misleading. To live a good spiritual life you don't have to be a pious image. All that we do depends on our attitude toward our fellow human beings. That was the message imo.

Yes, I agree. How we treat each other is for me one of the most important things.

 

[Autodidact]

Since the plates which supposedly predated the 1611 King James bible was full of King James English, I would have to say that the plates first belonged to King James. I have done some study on Mormonism and it is easily dismissed as a legitimate religion, at least that is my opinion. Here is a link..... this is the tip of the iceberg.
Problems with the Book of Mormon

Yes, it is, and it's based on the same type and quality of evidence you're using. Better, if anything, because more recent. And yet for some reason (we call it special pleading) you accept yours and reject his.

 

[Danmac]

Yes, it is, and it's based on the same type and quality of evidence you're using. Better, if anything, because more recent. And yet for some reason (we call it special pleading) you accept yours and reject his.

His is filled with error. Show me where the bible does the same.

 

[challupa]

His is filled with error. Show me where the bible does the same.

Well a tiny example of the bible not being inerrant would be that the first chapter of genesis was added quite a while after the 2nd chapter. That kinda messes things up just a bit don't ya think??

 

[Danmac]

Well a tiny example of the bible not being inerrant would be that the first chapter of genesis was added quite a while after the 2nd chapter. That kinda messes things up just a bit don't ya think??

be a bit more specific

 

[Spiritone]

Well a tiny example of the bible not being inerrant would be that the first chapter of genesis was added quite a while after the 2nd chapter. That kinda messes things up just a bit don't ya think??

How could anyone know that? It is one of the oldest writings known to us.

 

[challupa]

be a bit more specific

In the book "The Evolution of God" Robert Wright. Page 102 "The first chapter of Genesis was almost certainly written later than the second chapter of Genesis, by a different author". And he got that from the writings of Richard Elliott Friedman, 2003, "The Bible with Sources Revealed" HarperSanFranisco. If you're interested in looking it up for yourself.

Also here is a link that tells you a little about Friedman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_with_Sources_Revealed

 

[Danmac]

In the book "The Evolution of God" Robert Wright. Page 102 "The first chapter of Genesis was almost certainly written later than the second chapter of Genesis, by a different author". And he got that from the writings of Richard Elliott Friedman, 2003, "The Bible with Sources Revealed" HarperSanFranisco. If you're interested in looking it up for yourself.

Also here is a link that tells you a little about Friedman.
The Bible with Sources Revealed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Torah or Pentateuch was written by Moses. That is a matter of Jewish history.That includes the first five books of the Old Testament. Your source is speculating.

 

[McBell]

The Torah or Pentateuch was written by Moses. That is a matter of Jewish history.That includes the first five books of the Old Testament. Your source is speculating.

Source please

 

[Danmac]

Source please

Most certainly

The term Torah (Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "teaching" or "instruction", or "law"), also known as the Pentateuch (Greek: penta [five] and teuchos [tool, vessel, book]),[1] refers to the Five Books of Moses—the entirety of Judaism's founding legal and ethical religious texts.[2][3] A "Sefer Torah" (סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה, "book of Torah") or Torah scroll is a copy of the Torah written on parchment in a formal, traditional manner by a specially trained scribe under strict requirements.
The Torah is the first of three parts of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the founding religious document of Judaism,[4] Messianic and Hebrew belief, and is divided into five books, whose names in English are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy,
Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[McBell]

Most certainly

The term Torah (Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "teaching" or "instruction", or "law"), also known as the Pentateuch (Greek: penta [five] and teuchos [tool, vessel, book]),[1] refers to the Five Books of Moses—the entirety of Judaism's founding legal and ethical religious texts.[2][3] A "Sefer Torah" (סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה, "book of Torah") or Torah scroll is a copy of the Torah written on parchment in a formal, traditional manner by a specially trained scribe under strict requirements.
The Torah is the first of three parts of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the founding religious document of Judaism,[4] Messianic and Hebrew belief, and is divided into five books, whose names in English are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy,
Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting.

Would you please explain to me how, exactly, Moses wrote about his death and things that happened afterward?

 

[Danmac]

Interesting.

Would you please explain to me how, exactly, Moses wrote about his death

Moses was that good. Joshua must have concluded it.

and things that happened afterward?

John wrote about things that haven't happened yet.