I'm not primarily concerned here with what God is said to have done.
My question is, what real thing is God? Describe the real God so that when we find a real suspect we can determine whether it's God or not.
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What is God?
- Thread starter blü 2
- Start date
My question is, what real thing is God? Describe the real God so that when we find a real suspect we can determine whether it's God or not.
The same as I'd count, say, the number of coffee beans in a defined zone. That may including finding the sum of many such counts in many defined zones.
All we can know of God is the Person, the Life and the Message given of a Messenger sent by God.
So God to us is relative to that chosen 'Self of God'.
The Messenger is the Essence of the Attributes, but no attribute can define an unkowable God.
Regards Tony
So God to us is relative to that chosen 'Self of God'.
The Messenger is the Essence of the Attributes, but no attribute can define an unkowable God.
Regards Tony
Surely if we don't know what God actually is, we have no means of verifying the status of any messenger, no way of dealing with a question made up of elements that we have to imagine rather than know?
They offer that they are the verification of God.
That is the only proof for God we have, which is also reflected in Creation. If we study creation, we will find it is reflected in the Messenger and the Messages given by God, as they are the source of creation.
It is the Spirit I talk of here, or let's say the driving force of creation which is manifested in the binding of elements and the taking away of that spirit or driving force, is the dissolution of the elements of creation.
There is a Provisional tablet available as to how creation all came into being. It opens explaining the spiritual aspect and then offers that that spiritual aspect also mirrors the material unfolding of creation.
I can offer that this Tablet helps us to understand what is God.
Tablet of the Universe
Regards Tony
Thanks, Tony.
I fear I'll be more interested in knowing about 'spiritual aspects' and the like after I find out what real entity God actually is.
Go well.
You go well to blu 2.
All that can be offered of God, if we do not look at the Messengers person as life as proof, is the Spirit they give. Thus to know God is to understand and embrace all the attributes, such as trustworthiness, truthfulness, kindnesses, compassion, empathy etc.
That is how we find God, in the knowledge and use of those attributes.
Other than that, and the Messengers, all we will find is pure imagination.
Regards Tony
I'm in full accord with the virtues you list. I just don't see where God comes into the picture ─ subject to first finding out what God in reality is, of course,
I suspect we're not too far apart on the important things.
Regards.
I have a big smile blu 2, as I see you are in a difficult path, one could say God is everything and at the same time say God is not defined by anything.
Reality is subjective and God is the unknown most great spirit outside of our reality, how can we know something we will never see either materially or spiritually?
How can something contained, know what is outside the container they are put in, even when we do not even understand what we are contained in?
Anyways, I think that is all I can offer and I wish you all the best in your quest.
Regards Tony
rational experiences
Veteran Member
If any human says. Truth.
All humans are born babies.
We live as earths supported human life who men of science said was God. As we live upon earth inside of its heavens.
An entity self present O a planet that formed created its owned heavens from its owned body.
Stated and gods heavens which keeps us safe from cosmic hell.
Human science stated.
All you have to theory is where did life first come from. Our life. Especially when you are not or never were the first two humans.
In their body we are sperm and an ovary.
The heavens owns recording transmitting of the recording of both voice and image and sound. Animated bodies inanimate bodies imaged.
We see the feedback in our mind psyche. That status tells you straight away recording is only a state image.
So we are told advice as a psychic aware consciousness via recorded memories of all things.
Memory says spirit bodies came out of the eternal body direct into gods heavens as God O the planet entity had caused it. [ ] [Earths heavens on ground filled in spatial zero. ] The eternal on the other side.
Two bodies communicating to each other released spirit into [ ] between them. The spirit then moved into earths atmosphere converted by water oxygen.
The nature garden proves the first body took its form. Then humans life reoxygenated by trees owned new form. By oxygenation.
Why science said the heavens Christ consciousness science aware said the holy ox was a Christ support
So only Christ was holy.
Change to the Christ stated life hence was sacrificed. A human relativity teaching about Satanism.
How is that advice not correct?
Reasoning the upper heavens spatial interaction gas has nothing to do with us.
The immaculate heavens is proven to be earths vacuum womb voided inherited heavens. The sun attack made one side burn.
If not for the immaculate no heavens would exist.
The science teaching the sun attack stopped was frozen into wandering stars as mass.
So if they get burnt activated the star as they wander then sun radiation enters earths heavens. The vacuum void owned stone. Not a burning star.
Earth proves its upper heavens accumulated unnatural amounts of asteroid released radiation that our vacuum cannot deal with. So it sits there.
In the past human science applying the count said even ING sky burnt for six days. Which is satanic.
They said the symbol human expressed K was the constant.
So for six days a human caused satanic attack irradiated life as the days light by mass radiation fallout occurred in the same event.
So stated I by science sacrificed life as K ING.
I introduced it. A man's science confession. Sion to apply to convert God.
The ancient advice man invented a nuclear machine reaction he said shifted time. Which is sun nuclear reasoning to consume God earths holy body and holy spirit.
Why eating is about the End. Nuclear attack.
Which is satanisms.
Now if we interview a human theist they own no machine and own no reaction. First.
The origin of the the Ist satanist is to infer a God earth reactive cause that the natural body never owned itself.
He infers it was in an ancient past. He infers the past status himself yet he was not present in that past. Evolution cooling naturally is where he existed.
To placate converting god the mass and spirit by his machination.
So today the scientist human memory states believe only in evolution and nothing else for why you live exist today as a healthy yet sacrificed human life.
The sacrifice occurred yet life had been saved. Life healed he states by evolution.
Cold wandering stars releasing only cold gases having cooled from shooting stars. Amassing of gases plus pressure changes. One of life's saviours.
Ice existing as mass a saviour that returns is reborn end of every year.
Owns healing human stable DNA....as with animals birth.
Men as thinkers claim conscious messenger advice theisms as the process. Men or man not the wandering star that came nor the gases it released.
So you are not the messenger the star is. You are also not ice. The terms gods own is real. Man is not God not is man the saviour. It was scientific stated by men theists.
If a man said I own evolution healing of my DNA as a holy star put gases back that assisted healing by water pressures returned to the ground. He explained why he had healed only.
By gas mass accumulation in space returned.
Man is evolved healed in DNA genesis only by evolution. After he satanic science irradiated mutated sacrificed his life.
Man however said he owned the sin as he had caused it himself in science.
First life origin on Atlantis earth owned a life on earth with higher crystalline mass when first time shifting model was used. Killed us all.
Archaeological evidence proved machines existed on earth before dinosaurs.
After the ice age where gigantic reptiles gave birth to eggs really is a proof we came spiritually pre owned out of the eternal back into life inheritance.
As the radiation was used in converting stone into huge sink holes.
As the heavenly mass cooled by ice cooling pressures.
Reasoning the earth's even ING sky was set alight so the day light burning fallout occurred as night sky burnt might have in fact been when science combusted us all.
As heavenly human scientific advice.
As the night immaculate non burning gas took a long time cooling in space to not be burning.
The bible said evening sky was set alight.
Which none of you seem to reason. That reaction may have ended life on earth.
As the story was only an AI old man's machine science heard by the new life of men after the ice age. Who rebuilt the pyramid technology and irradiated mutated life as proof science is satanic.
More than likely the advice about six days burning night time sky was the end of life.
As only atmospheric cooling evolution replaced the recorded memories in a non burning evening sky.
Science was never God as God O planet and it's heavens evolved naturally by evolution in space.
Why the scientific memory is adamant that science on earth only agrees to the status evolution so theorising the past is stopped.
All humans are born babies.
We live as earths supported human life who men of science said was God. As we live upon earth inside of its heavens.
An entity self present O a planet that formed created its owned heavens from its owned body.
Stated and gods heavens which keeps us safe from cosmic hell.
Human science stated.
All you have to theory is where did life first come from. Our life. Especially when you are not or never were the first two humans.
In their body we are sperm and an ovary.
The heavens owns recording transmitting of the recording of both voice and image and sound. Animated bodies inanimate bodies imaged.
We see the feedback in our mind psyche. That status tells you straight away recording is only a state image.
So we are told advice as a psychic aware consciousness via recorded memories of all things.
Memory says spirit bodies came out of the eternal body direct into gods heavens as God O the planet entity had caused it. [ ] [Earths heavens on ground filled in spatial zero. ] The eternal on the other side.
Two bodies communicating to each other released spirit into [ ] between them. The spirit then moved into earths atmosphere converted by water oxygen.
The nature garden proves the first body took its form. Then humans life reoxygenated by trees owned new form. By oxygenation.
Why science said the heavens Christ consciousness science aware said the holy ox was a Christ support
So only Christ was holy.
Change to the Christ stated life hence was sacrificed. A human relativity teaching about Satanism.
How is that advice not correct?
Reasoning the upper heavens spatial interaction gas has nothing to do with us.
The immaculate heavens is proven to be earths vacuum womb voided inherited heavens. The sun attack made one side burn.
If not for the immaculate no heavens would exist.
The science teaching the sun attack stopped was frozen into wandering stars as mass.
So if they get burnt activated the star as they wander then sun radiation enters earths heavens. The vacuum void owned stone. Not a burning star.
Earth proves its upper heavens accumulated unnatural amounts of asteroid released radiation that our vacuum cannot deal with. So it sits there.
In the past human science applying the count said even ING sky burnt for six days. Which is satanic.
They said the symbol human expressed K was the constant.
So for six days a human caused satanic attack irradiated life as the days light by mass radiation fallout occurred in the same event.
So stated I by science sacrificed life as K ING.
I introduced it. A man's science confession. Sion to apply to convert God.
The ancient advice man invented a nuclear machine reaction he said shifted time. Which is sun nuclear reasoning to consume God earths holy body and holy spirit.
Why eating is about the End. Nuclear attack.
Which is satanisms.
Now if we interview a human theist they own no machine and own no reaction. First.
The origin of the the Ist satanist is to infer a God earth reactive cause that the natural body never owned itself.
He infers it was in an ancient past. He infers the past status himself yet he was not present in that past. Evolution cooling naturally is where he existed.
To placate converting god the mass and spirit by his machination.
So today the scientist human memory states believe only in evolution and nothing else for why you live exist today as a healthy yet sacrificed human life.
The sacrifice occurred yet life had been saved. Life healed he states by evolution.
Cold wandering stars releasing only cold gases having cooled from shooting stars. Amassing of gases plus pressure changes. One of life's saviours.
Ice existing as mass a saviour that returns is reborn end of every year.
Owns healing human stable DNA....as with animals birth.
Men as thinkers claim conscious messenger advice theisms as the process. Men or man not the wandering star that came nor the gases it released.
So you are not the messenger the star is. You are also not ice. The terms gods own is real. Man is not God not is man the saviour. It was scientific stated by men theists.
If a man said I own evolution healing of my DNA as a holy star put gases back that assisted healing by water pressures returned to the ground. He explained why he had healed only.
By gas mass accumulation in space returned.
Man is evolved healed in DNA genesis only by evolution. After he satanic science irradiated mutated sacrificed his life.
Man however said he owned the sin as he had caused it himself in science.
First life origin on Atlantis earth owned a life on earth with higher crystalline mass when first time shifting model was used. Killed us all.
Archaeological evidence proved machines existed on earth before dinosaurs.
After the ice age where gigantic reptiles gave birth to eggs really is a proof we came spiritually pre owned out of the eternal back into life inheritance.
As the radiation was used in converting stone into huge sink holes.
As the heavenly mass cooled by ice cooling pressures.
Reasoning the earth's even ING sky was set alight so the day light burning fallout occurred as night sky burnt might have in fact been when science combusted us all.
As heavenly human scientific advice.
As the night immaculate non burning gas took a long time cooling in space to not be burning.
The bible said evening sky was set alight.
Which none of you seem to reason. That reaction may have ended life on earth.
As the story was only an AI old man's machine science heard by the new life of men after the ice age. Who rebuilt the pyramid technology and irradiated mutated life as proof science is satanic.
More than likely the advice about six days burning night time sky was the end of life.
As only atmospheric cooling evolution replaced the recorded memories in a non burning evening sky.
Science was never God as God O planet and it's heavens evolved naturally by evolution in space.
Why the scientific memory is adamant that science on earth only agrees to the status evolution so theorising the past is stopped.
Brian2
Veteran Member
You get answers for what God is in the Bible, even in what you said. He is the creator. He is a powerful creator and it could be that the energy that the universe is made from comes from His abundance of power.
If He is not real then He could not have done what the Bible shows He has done.
An invisible spirit does not have a description except in what He is like and does even if He is everywhere in His creation.
I saw that long list. Were you writing about me to strike up a conversation? (Oh....wait....I should already know the answer to that one....obviously old age is setting in).
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Some of the classic attributes of God can be inferred from Albert Einstein's theory of Special Relativity. This theory of Einstein deals with changes that occur as we approach the speed of light. One of the main mathematical inferences is that matter/mass cannot travel at the speed of light. This would require infinite energy. Matter hits a wall at the speed of light and cannot overcome the barrier.
Classically, God is not of this material realm. One might infer that God exists at the speed of light reference, where matter does not exist. This is why he is called spirit and his realm the spiritual realm.
At a speed of light reference, time and space also become discontinuous according to the math. This imply space-time, which governs the physics of the material realm, breaks down. This break down allows time and space to exist, but separated from each other.
In such a state, one could move in time without the constraint of space and/or move in space without the constraint of time. This would create the states of omniscience and omnipresence, respectively.
From that realm of omniscience and omnipresence, material creation could appear, but at lower potential; less than the speed of light, as all knowing thought limits itself and materializes into matter.
An analogy is the human imagination. We can imagine flying to the sun with wings of wax, in an instant of time. Our imagination is not limited by the practical limits created by space-time. However, our material bodies are. Only the imagination can go for that ride. This sort of an analogy of the separation between the two realms.
If on the other hand, we imagine something closer to the limits of space-time, such as a new fad, that is not yet part of material reality, this thought can be combined with energy; drive, to become manifest in the material realm. The physics is more complicated at the speed of light but humans have this trait in common with God, but we are limited by matter and space-time.
Classically, God is not of this material realm. One might infer that God exists at the speed of light reference, where matter does not exist. This is why he is called spirit and his realm the spiritual realm.
At a speed of light reference, time and space also become discontinuous according to the math. This imply space-time, which governs the physics of the material realm, breaks down. This break down allows time and space to exist, but separated from each other.
In such a state, one could move in time without the constraint of space and/or move in space without the constraint of time. This would create the states of omniscience and omnipresence, respectively.
From that realm of omniscience and omnipresence, material creation could appear, but at lower potential; less than the speed of light, as all knowing thought limits itself and materializes into matter.
An analogy is the human imagination. We can imagine flying to the sun with wings of wax, in an instant of time. Our imagination is not limited by the practical limits created by space-time. However, our material bodies are. Only the imagination can go for that ride. This sort of an analogy of the separation between the two realms.
If on the other hand, we imagine something closer to the limits of space-time, such as a new fad, that is not yet part of material reality, this thought can be combined with energy; drive, to become manifest in the material realm. The physics is more complicated at the speed of light but humans have this trait in common with God, but we are limited by matter and space-time.
You've got me scratching my head trying to figure this out. If I scratch any more, I'll strike brain.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Interesting read and plausible to my way of thinking. Then again what do I know. I keep being told by the science buffs here that I don't know science.
None of that is relevant to what I'm asking in this thread.
If God is real, give me a description of this real God such that if I find a real suspect, I can determine whether it's God or not.
If God is not real then God is purely conceptual / imaginary ─ which indeed is exactly what, on the all the evidence, God appears to be.
I'd say it was the other way round ─ that no real creature can do what God is said to have done in eg the opening of Genesis, not least because whoever wrote it didn't know the nature of the universe, had no concept of orbits or planets or deep space or the nature of the sky or the stars, the evolution of life on earth, and so on.
Sure, and there are no real examples of such a being. If there were, you could show me one.
Ssh, I'll just zip back to the OP and add "Except for Clara Tea" at the start,
Bodie
Member
The way I see it the word god is the magical term for science that has not been shown as science yet, many humans seem to have a habit of trying to make sense of that which they do not fully understand so they conceptualize and store away in the file cabinets of their minds things that escape their full understandings, it seems a fear based reaction (fear of the unknown/unknowable). Where we get into trouble is when the egotistical, narcissistic human mind conceptualizes such a broad subject in such a way that aggrandizes themselves, add some intellectual appeal in the form of oral or written communication, some lofty titles and uniforms, special people who supposedly serve as a conduit and broadcaster of gods will and and you have a pretty potent weapon in your hands.
setarcos
The hopeful or the hopeless?
You'll have to clarify a little what you mean by qualities of imaginary things versus real things. For instance the science of real things in the physical universe has real reasons for believing in a real "infinite" universe. Or a real "infinite" multiverse. Now, if you believe that the universe as defined is a real thing then it can have real qualities one of which might be infinity in describing its real extension into reality. The same goes for omniscience, omnipotence, etc. These terms represent the gradient extent to which a real thing might reach the perfection which the term represents. If a being can have a limited knowledge of a particular thing then it is not a great leap to conceptualize a real being with an unlimited knowledge of a particular thing as a quality it may possess for instance.
Simply because you have no real knowledge of the existence of such a being does not mean such a being cannot really exist with these qualities.
setarcos
The hopeful or the hopeless?
You do little justice to what science is by not considering its own processes. Scientifically...we formulate a hypothesis. We call it the God hypothesis. A hypothesis whose propositions must pass the test of disproof. Just like anything else in science. And like anything else in science hypothesis and theory evolve over time to more reflect the discovered evidence. Science has yet to disprove the God hypothesis. While science has over time clarified the workings of this universe it has done nothing but created more questions than answers concerning the so called "Big Questions". The how's and why's of creation without itself resorting to pathological premature insistence on the truth of "faith" based theories of origins.
If one takes the simplest answer without definitive proof, as yet, then pound for pound the God hypothesis outweighs anything science has yet come up with which makes the "no God hypothesis" more likely. Their are plenty of scientists, philosophers, and religionists out there who have written on these things which have plenty of good counter evidence to the "no God hypothesis" to date of which strictly natural scientists only answers to seem to be...we've answered questions, even though they just give rise to more questions, in the past so its inevitable that we will answer these things in the future, eventually, without simply creating more questions than the answers that we've answered.
I think most people are simply mad that God...if it exists hasn't conformed to their conception of how it should behave. Science is obvious and in your face. God is not so I'm going with science all the way like a petulant child until God acts like I want it to.