What is a Soul?

[Walkntune]

I've never heard so many baseless assumptions in my life.

What is baseless? That we have a fight and flight instinct? This is the very base of our emotions and how we can make choices based on how we are effected by emotions.
Explain why its baseless? We even have the ability to not follow emotions or listen to them.How do you guess we do that? If our will and mind are the same then where does the choice come from?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What is baseless? That we have a fight and flight instinct? This is the very base of our emotions and how we can make choices based on how we are effected by emotions.

IMO, the baseless assumption isn't that we have a fight-or-flight instinct; the baseless assumption is that this instinct is generated by some unseen, immeasurable entity that controls my body like a puppet and that it's not generated by hormones secreted from my adrenal gland.

 

[Walkntune]

IMO, the baseless assumption isn't that we have a fight-or-flight instinct; the baseless assumption is that this instinct is generated by some unseen, immeasurable entity that controls my body like a puppet and that it's not generated by hormones secreted from my adrenal gland.

If you explain the process of intuition to me we will be on the same page. IMO!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you explain the process of intuition to me we will be on the same page. IMO!

Pixies.

Invisible pixies whisper suggestions into your ear. They do it very quietly, though, so you don't realize they're doing this.

How is this a less reasonable proposition than an invisible, supernatural soul?

 

[Walkntune]

Pixies.

Invisible pixies whisper suggestions into your ear. They do it very quietly, though, so you don't realize they're doing this.

How is this a less reasonable proposition than an invisible, supernatural soul?

How about an honest answer to what intuition is in your opinion?
How does a mother know when her daughter is in trouble before even talking and having knowledge?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How about an honest answer to what intuition is in your opinion?
How does a mother know when her daughter is in trouble before even talking and having knowledge?

That sort of intuition? I don't think it really exists. Not the way you're suggesting, anyhow.

Coincidences happen occasionally. We can also be good at perceiving non-verbal cues from people that hint at their mood. I've never seen any reason to believe in psychic powers or anything like that.

Edit: no answer to why "the soul" is a better answer than "pixies"?

 

[Walkntune]

Edit: no answer to why "the soul" is a better answer than "pixies"?

Because we have soul music but no pixie music!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because we have soul music but no pixie music!

No Pixie music? Where were you for the '90s? :sarcastic

[youtube]Hvi4iA3PnKE[/youtube]
YouTube - Here Comes Your Man - Pixies

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Probably a good question to ponder does the soul die or does it go to another level?
That would just depend on how one chooses to believe. I'm sure I make choices from my heart that doesn't always agree with my soul...... Maybe I got someone elses soul when I was born, wonder if souls are recycled? Maybe they just hang suspended in space and time.......

According to Ezekiel 18:4,20 the soul that sins dies.

According to Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 the condition of the dead is a state of not being conscious of anything. Knowing nothing.
Psalm 6:5 no remembrance in death
Psalm 13:3 the dead sleep the sleep of death
Psalm 115:17 the dead do not praise God
Psalm 146:4 no more thoughts at death. Thoughts perish.

Adam did not exist anywhere before he was created from the dust of the earth. It wasn't until Adam received the breath of life (Gen 2:7) that Adam became a living soul. Adam did not possess a soul, or come to have a soul, but Adam was a soul or life. At death Adam became a dead soul.
From dust to dust. No recycling for Adam.

The prophet Daniel (12:2,13) looked forward to the time when the sleeping dead would awaken from death's deep sleep. Awaken on resurrection morning, so to speak, during Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.

Jesus gave us a glimpse of that future millennial reign over earth when he told us he would awaken his friend Lazarus from death's sleep at John 11:11-14.

 

[Charity]

According to Ezekiel 18:4,20 the soul that sins dies.

According to Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 the condition of the dead is a state of not being conscious of anything. Knowing nothing.
Psalm 6:5 no remembrance in death
Psalm 13:3 the dead sleep the sleep of death
Psalm 115:17 the dead do not praise God
Psalm 146:4 no more thoughts at death. Thoughts perish.

Adam did not exist anywhere before he was created from the dust of the earth. It wasn't until Adam received the breath of life (Gen 2:7) that Adam became a living soul. Adam did not possess a soul, or come to have a soul, but Adam was a soul or life. At death Adam became a dead soul.
From dust to dust. No recycling for Adam.

The prophet Daniel (12:2,13) looked forward to the time when the sleeping dead would awaken from death's deep sleep. Awaken on resurrection morning, so to speak, during Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.

Jesus gave us a glimpse of that future millennial reign over earth when he told us he would awaken his friend Lazarus from death's sleep at John 11:11-14.

Thank you I already know all of these scriptures, I was only being skeptical and leaning toward humor.....Be it scriptures or self opinion no one knows at what point a soul would actually leave the body after demise....and I'm not dying to find out.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thank you I already know all of these scriptures, I was only being skeptical and leaning toward humor.....Be it scriptures or self opinion no one knows at what point a soul would actually leave the body after demise....and I'm not dying to find out.

Since the soul dies (Eze 18:4,20) then the dead soul is lifeless.
Adam returned to the dust, so nothing of Adam's life is left over- just dust.

Was John 11:11-14 Jesus self opinion?__________

Can't the pagan idea of soul immortality be traced back to its roots in ancient Babylon? When the people migrated from Mesopotamia they took that pagan idea with them and spread it world wide into a greater pagan religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That is why an immortal soul is taught in pagan religions today, and also taught in the realm of Christendom, which developed not from first-century Christianity, but developed later by putting Christian labels on pagan beliefs, and that is how the teaching of a death-proof soul crept into so-called Christianity today.

 

[logician]

In Christianity, the soul is what lives on afer we die and goes to heaven (or hell). Of course, I don't believe in such things, and believe there is nothing besides the material body, which upon death there is nothing left "alive".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In Christianity, the soul is what lives on afer we die and goes to heaven (or hell). Of course, I don't believe in such things, and believe there is nothing besides the material body, which upon death there is nothing left "alive".

Where in Christianity does it say the soul lives on?

Did Adam's soul live on?
Adam came from dust and returned to dust.
Ezekiel 18:4,20 says the soul that sins dies.
Do you know anyone that does not sin?
If one could stop sinning one would not die.

Since the dead are not conscious (Ecc 9:5), then there is nothing left including thoughts that perish at death according to Psalm 146:4.

Gen 2:7 after Adam received the breath of life, then Adam became a living soul or life. At death Adam became a dead soul.

After the death of the apostles (Acts 20:29,30) pagan ideas became mixed by putting Christian labels on pagan teachings such as soul immortality.
If the soul was death proof what would be the need for a resurrection of something that is alive?

 

[footprints]

I grew up Catholic, and they spoke of the soul all the time. But never could my teacher, parents or anyone that I could think of explain what the heck the alleged "soul" is. I remember specifically asking when I was a kid and never getting an answer that made any sense at all. I am firmly convinced that the story of the soul is no different than the story of Creation. Biology and paleontolgy and various other disciplines exposed how the creation story was just a myth to explain what people had no better explanation for, and neurology will do the same to the concept of the soul. Of course there are many who won't agree, so if you don't, can you support your stance on the existence of the soul somehow? (Oh, and please supply some evidence for your claim!)

Thanks,
Mike.

Let us start off by dispelling a myth you have projected here as some sort of fact or legend. Biology and paleontolgy have not exposed the creation story as a myth. There are too many counter agruments against this to even try and suggest this as some sort of point. That some hold onto the biological and paleontological premise and use it as premise to dismiss creationalism, doesn't mean to imply all people have, there are still too many creationalists around to even try to suggest otherwise.

Pertaining to soul. Research on this matter is still on going, no direct evidence for or against has been found, albeit much speculation either way abounds.

The most compelling argument for a soul, or some kind of entity which can leave the body, comes from motor vehicle accident victims. There are three telling premises which come from a traumatic event like a motor vehicle accident, 1) Time slows appears to happen in slow motion, 2) An out of body experience and, 3) Clairvoyance and or telepathy.

One of the most bugging questions in science is where does coincidence leave off and reality take over. How many motor vehicle accident victims have to report similar experiences before their experience is considered valid.

Of the three reported experiences, the most telling is that time slows down and appears to happen in slow motion. Over half of the people I have personally interviewed down this line have reported this experience. Further investigation required.

The next is the telepathic/clairvoyance perspective, approximately one third of the victims have reported that they seen the accident happen before it actually happened, and a slightly smaller percentage have reported that they had touched the presence of a loved one, who wasn't involved in the accident, and in many cases this same presence of being was also felt and observed by the loved one not involved in the accident. Further investigation required.

The last, but by no means least, and by far fewer percentage are those who have reported a direct out of body experience. This may relate to seeing the other vehicle and its occupants where it was totally impossible to see the other vehicle or its occupants, to being at home with a loved one and seeing exactly what their loved one was seeing. Further investigation required.

Many ancient cultures from around the world have telepathy and spirits in their legends. This made science once ask the question, was telepathy an ability we once had and are now loosing, or was telepathy something which we might be gaining.

Scientists are no different to any other person on the planet, for nearly every scientific argument there is a scientific counter argument. A soul, spirit et al, is no different. Each scientist has their own beliefs and projects their suggestions in the direction of those beliefs. Where the soul, spirit et al, is concerned, a lot more research is needed.

 

[logician]

Where in Christianity does it say the soul lives on?

Did Adam's soul live on?
Adam came from dust and returned to dust.
Ezekiel 18:4,20 says the soul that sins dies.
Do you know anyone that does not sin?
If one could stop sinning one would not die.

Since the dead are not conscious (Ecc 9:5), then there is nothing left including thoughts that perish at death according to Psalm 146:4.

Gen 2:7 after Adam received the breath of life, then Adam became a living soul or life. At death Adam became a dead soul.

After the death of the apostles (Acts 20:29,30) pagan ideas became mixed by putting Christian labels on pagan teachings such as soul immortality.
If the soul was death proof what would be the need for a resurrection of something that is alive?

So Christians believing they go to heaven after they die is so much balderdash?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So Christians believing they go to heaven after they die is so much balderdash?

Revelation 5:9,10 definitely shows resurrected Christians chosen by Christ being in heaven working with Jesus.
They have two jobs to do: Kingly or a royal job of taking care of governmental needs of those alive on earth. Priestly or a religious job of taking care of spiritual needs of those living on earth.

Those righteous of Matthew 25:32,37 remain alive on earth. Those already dead in the dust of the ground as Daniel 12:2,13 indicates will be subjects of God's kingdom or royal government right here on earth to be part of the humble meek to inherit the earth as Jesus promised. -Psalm 37:11,29.

 

[Bird123]

We are all spiritual beings in our true natures. We are placed in our physical body after birth at the point when long term memories are possible. The connection is made in the brain. Talk with the very young for it seems the longer we are in our physical bodies the more seduced we are into thinking that is all there is.

 

[johnhanks]

We are all spiritual beings in our true natures. We are placed in our physical body after birth...

Interesting. Where were 'we' before that?

 

[Bird123]

Interesting. Where were 'we' before that?

Life is the education of God's children.The sum of all knowledge and wisdom can not be learned in a single physical lifetime.Each life brings new growth and learning. Since it takes adversity to learn and we take adversity personally, we go to God after death. We then know God's unconditional love that heals all hurt. We realize that it has never been about punishment. After a time, kiddies must go back to school. You will not find all of this in religions for religions do not understand God. The truth is out there to be discovered. Look around you. God and His actions are all around. You can discover so much from someone's actions. Look beyond the simple. God is very very smart. That is why so few really understand!

 

[Nepenthe]

Let us start off by dispelling a myth you have projected here as some sort of fact or legend. Biology and paleontolgy have not exposed the creation story as a myth.

No, the Genesis creation story was known as myth long before; historical and literary criticism offered insights into the creation story that made a literal interpretation difficult. You also forgot geology: Hutton's deep time exposed a young earth as false 74 years before Darwin's studies were published- not to mention Georges Cuvier's contributions to geology, anatomy and paleontology decades before Darwin. Darwin was just the nail in the coffin for a literal interpretation of the creation fable(s) in the Book of Genesis.

There are too many counter agruments against this to even try and suggest this as some sort of point. That some hold onto the biological and paleontological premise and use it as premise to dismiss creationalism, doesn't mean to imply all people have, there are still too many creationalists around to even try to suggest otherwise.

Not sure what this means exactly or- if I'm interpreting it correctly- what relevance this has. How is this an argument against biological evolution? Is this some kind of argumentum ad populum? Yes, there are still uninformed people who cling to creationism despite the abject lack of any supporting evidence and the overwhelming biological, anatomical, genetic, geological, etc., evidence supporting evolution.

Pertaining to soul. Research on this matter is still on going, no direct evidence for or against has been found, albeit much speculation either way abounds.

What we do know about the physical mechanisms involved in the brain and nervous system makes unnecessary any ghost in the machine. Scientific concepts are supported by evidence: phenomena are observed, a hypothesis is proposed, research is done and the hypothesis tested. If the experiment finds nothing or is incapable of being reproduced then we have to conclude there's nothing to support the hypothesis. Long story short- all of the research on the many interpretations of a "soul" have offered absolutely nothing to even remotely support the existence of any soul or anything independent of the mechanistic processes in our brains.

The most compelling argument for a soul, or some kind of entity which can leave the body, comes from motor vehicle accident victims. There are three telling premises which come from a traumatic event like a motor vehicle accident, 1) Time slows appears to happen in slow motion, 2) An out of body experience and, 3) Clairvoyance and or telepathy.

Sources?
Even if I accepted #1, how does physical trauma to the brain and time appearing to "happen in slow motion" support a soul?
#2 is another claim that's completely unfounded. NDEs are physiological responses to brain trauma, and not some magical doorway to souls or an afterlife.
And #3 is more nonsense- there's no scientific evidence for clairvoyance or telepathy. None.

One of the most bugging questions in science is where does coincidence leave off and reality take over. How many motor vehicle accident victims have to report similar experiences before their experience is considered valid.

Of the three reported experiences, the most telling is that time slows down and appears to happen in slow motion. Over half of the people I have personally interviewed down this line have reported this experience. Further investigation required.

Interviewed? Has this been published somewhere? Online perhaps?

The next is the telepathic/clairvoyance perspective, approximately one third of the victims have reported that they seen the accident happen before it actually happened, and a slightly smaller percentage have reported that they had touched the presence of a loved one, who wasn't involved in the accident, and in many cases this same presence of being was also felt and observed by the loved one not involved in the accident. Further investigation required.

Has this been published somewhere? Online perhaps?

The last, but by no means least, and by far fewer percentage are those who have reported a direct out of body experience. This may relate to seeing the other vehicle and its occupants where it was totally impossible to see the other vehicle or its occupants, to being at home with a loved one and seeing exactly what their loved one was seeing. Further investigation required.

Resources please.

Many ancient cultures from around the world have telepathy and spirits in their legends. This made science once ask the question, was telepathy an ability we once had and are now loosing, or was telepathy something which we might be gaining.

Many ancient cultures from around the world created explanations of the world that were ultimately inaccurate. Science has certainly looked into telepathy and the lack of evidence points to it being something non-existent like clairvoyance, telekinesis, leprechauns, or ghosts.

Scientists are no different to any other person on the planet, for nearly every scientific argument there is a scientific counter argument.

That probably sounds profound to some folks. The difference is that science is amendable to change as long as the counter argument is supported by empirical evidence; there's no automatic counter argument and if there is, it's taken seriously as long as it's substantiated. For example, there's no serious, substantiated, empirical support for a "counter argument' to evolution.

A soul, spirit et al, is no different. Each scientist has their own beliefs and projects their suggestions in the direction of those beliefs.

I can string together words that sound profound but contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation too.

Where the soul, spirit et al, is concerned, a lot more research is needed.

Maybe, but when it comes to the mind or consciousness I'm pretty sure any post-grad researchers would be better served not wasting their time- instead they should focus on relevant ideas like mirror neurons or even Dennett's concept of intentional stance. But that's my 21.3 gram opinion of course.