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what is a "god" to you?

cmdeford

New Member
I'm having some trouble here. I can't believe God, gods, or goddesses are humanoid, immortal beings, the typical things you hear, I personally think they are more ideas, ideas we hold high and strive to uphold and achieve, I believe it's just our minds that give them form and a name. I'm not one to say anyone's thinking is wrong or right, I'd like to hear other people's ideas. I live by the Wiccan way, I'm just having issues with this one particular part. Any advice, suggestions, comments would be greatly appreciated.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
You're not alone in that belief. A lot of people think of the Gods as archetypes, personifications, even reflections of their own inner selves or attributes. Others think of them as real beings. We see them in a way meaningful to each of us.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I'm having some trouble here. I can't believe God, gods, or goddesses are humanoid, immortal beings, the typical things you hear, I personally think they are more ideas, ideas we hold high and strive to uphold and achieve, I believe it's just our minds that give them form and a name. I'm not one to say anyone's thinking is wrong or right, I'd like to hear other people's ideas. I live by the Wiccan way, I'm just having issues with this one particular part. Any advice, suggestions, comments would be greatly appreciated.

I see God as the anonymous truth
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
People experience Gods. You can't experience an archetype, what ever that may be.

The anthropologist Stephen Huyler was present at an Indian village ceremony one day when
Despite my resistance at that moment, as the fire flared brightly and the spirit of the Goddess was invoked to enter the tree and be available to the village, I actually felt her presence. I felt a change in the atmosphere: a palpable sense of power vibrating throughout the area surrounding the sacred tree. It was a type of pulsating energy, the strength of which I had never before sensed in my life. I was completely surprised, overwhelmed beyond any expectation. In that one moment, I, who had come as an observer, had become a participant. ... I was transformed.

Similarly, Maya Deren went to Haiti to film dancing in Voudou ceremonies, only to be repeatedly possessed by the Goddess Erzulie.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I believe that a God is whatever has been deified.

In the case of the traditional Gods, they're a type of Wight, or soul-beings that act as bridges between us and a thing. As to whether they exist independently of human thought and conception, that's not something I put a whole lot of importance on.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I think pretty much along the same lines as Riverwolf here. As I've been learning about various religions, I wanted to come up with a definition of gods that was culturally neutral and didn't exclude anyone's god-concepts. I came up with:

"Gods are that which are deemed worthy of worship by a particular person or culture."

It's important, then, to understand what that word "worship" means, because it looks very different across the world's religions. Worship basically means something been declared of worth - it is something valued or sacred. It is something appreciated; it is a thing we are thankful for and express gratitude towards. Maybe it is something we are awe-inspired by or humbled by.

The precise characteristics of gods varies tremendously across the world's religions. I've been doing a series in the Theism section designed to explore that. Some god-concepts are supernaturalistic, others aren't. Some are transcendent, some are immanent, some are something of both. Some theologies embrace multiplicity of gods while others reject it. Others still use faceted approaches. Monotheisms often posit an omni-max deity, but this is rejected by non-monotheisms. Really, there's no limit to what gods can be. They can be the spirits of trees and rocks in your backyard. They can be honored ancestors, teachers, and intellectuals. They can be figures out of pop culture mythology. Whatever.
 

Cassandra

Active Member
I'm having some trouble here. I can't believe God, gods, or goddesses are humanoid, immortal beings, the typical things you hear, I personally think they are more ideas, ideas we hold high and strive to uphold and achieve, I believe it's just our minds that give them form and a name.
Ultimately it comes down to experience. It stems from the idea that everything in nature has consciousness, and also a consciousness of its own. Also that human qualities are not qualities exclusive for human beings but also found in other beings. For instance beauty, strength, aggression, purity and many others can be found in all kind of beings. Water can be pure, acid aggressive, metal is strong and resilient. etc. Yes, the same personal qualities are outside of us too.

Gods are extraordinary natural phenomena, and can be sensed in a spiritual form or in material bodies. Ancient people could clearly feel their spiritual presence and would honor their spirit for several reasons. The most important reason was however to create harmony with the surroundings they lived in. As harmony is vital for general happiness. This idea is central in Nature religions.

If you can not feel the spirit in things around you, you are likely to rationalize Gods as archetypes, personifications, even reflections of their own inner selves or attributes. But I think people mostly feel attracted to Paganism because they are more sensitive and feel a deeper connection with their environment.

It is not based on belief(!), but sublte feeling, subtle senses. However if one rejects the idea, the closed mind will not be very susceptible, because it will explain experiences away as something else, afraid to be caught in fantasies. Then one will not do practices that invoke these experiences either. One will stay clear of it, and thus one will feel justified in ones disbelief.

The Gods were only part of it. People felt the spirit in all beings, from stones, houses, streets, trees, forests, animals, the wind, waters, etc. Also one should not think that Gods were seen as super humans, but rather combinations of qualities that could take presence in beings. If people had extraordinary leader capacities they were believed to be under influence of a God. if they had them from early age they had the spirit of the God in their character, making them special, a kind of spiritual children. Revering Gods is way to acquire the qualities of the God. Which is no different than revering extraordinary humans and be "inspired" by them. Revering ancestor spirits is also an important means to create connection and sense of place in this world.

People find it hard to revere spirits as the practice has been so severely persecuted and ridiculed for centuries. Basically religion taught that there is only one God that is so far removed from our reality (supernatural) that he can not be contacted, only known through the book, giving the church a monopoly over all affairs spiritual as only the priesthood was allowed to read and interpret the book.

To get a feeling how people used to perceive the Gods, watch this video. It is important to realize the Gods are NOT "supernatural" like the monotheist God. They are natural phenomena that can be sensed. But senses need to be developed to become "sensitive". A good horse expert can feel the well being of a horse at one glance, he is sensitive. In the same way we pick up the atmosphere when we enter a room of people. If we become very sensitive we will sense the same spirit being active in different places.

Living in Nature is very different than living in modern society. Living in Nature one is surrounded by living things, everything feels alive. One feels part of a grand living being, whose health is harmony, just like our body is a system whose health depends on the harmonious interaction of its parts. In city life one is surrounded by man's constructions mostly build with a rational purpose, man's own extensions for his desire. That creates a distance that reflects one's connection with the surroundings and one's thinking.
 
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synonymou

New Member
This is very interesting. I like cassandra's answer but but here's my two cents. I think we are all part of nature, and the gods are just large and important pieces, that bridge the gap between the archetypes of the human mjnd and the things our minds connect them with. Thor Is the personification thunder, the rain, that kid who beat up the bully at school and especially the way that these things are connected in the human consciousness. It isnisn't that he is either these things or a seperate entity, but rather is these things when seen as a seperate entity. Thor is real because both the natural phenomena and the human emotions/archetypes/memes he represents are real. I also think this meaning of "god" is a different concept from the the idea of a supreme being that most christians and such have nowadays.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Thor Is the personification of thunder, the rain ... Thor is real because both the natural phenomena and the human emotions/archetypes/memes he represents are real.
Plutarch summed up the problem with that view when he wrote that to say Zeus is thunder is to give yourself a choice between superstition and atheism. A rational person doesn't worship natural phenomena or the contents of their own mind.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Plutarch summed up the problem with that view when he wrote that to say Zeus is thunder is to give yourself a choice between superstition and atheism. A rational person doesn't worship natural phenomena or the contents of their own mind.
However, taking me as my example, I have experiences...in themselves, they are neither rational nor irrational. Neither are my memories rational or irrational. However, I construct rational understandings of my experiences and my memories, which are my conscious models of them--these may or may not be rational (the "scientific" ones will be, while my "artistic" ones will not). Since my "religion" is more about my experiences and actions, and not so much about my beliefs and models, I really don't worry too much about this. The trouble only appears when one requires everything experienced to conform to one's thoughts about it.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I'm having some trouble here. I can't believe God, gods, or goddesses are humanoid, immortal beings, the typical things you hear, I personally think they are more ideas, ideas we hold high and strive to uphold and achieve, I believe it's just our minds that give them form and a name.

This is a very sound view, thanks cmdeford. :smilecat: Aside from divine principles or ideas, in my mind a "god" or a divinity would be a living self-aware being that is beyond natural life and death, an Immortal, a being capable of creating and/or destroying in accordance with its own mind and will. This being could be physical and/or metaphysical.
 
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VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
I hold a similar belief, that the gods are not humanoid. They are forces holding certain ideas. These ideas are ideas that I strive to live by. I have been back and forth many times between considering myself a theist or an atheist. I now just say I'm neither.

The gods are personifications of forces.
 

Maponos

Welcome to the Opera
A god/deity/divinity, as we know them, are immortal individuals with immense power that is intimately tied to reality and the world itself.

Gods can be anthropomorphic, humanoid or change shape at will (as is observable in mythological cycles). A god can posses people or places or even objects.

Gods also have varying degrees of power. A household god is not going to be have as much influence as a local god and a local god is not going to have as much influence or power as a more well recognized god.

Gods are reflections of mortals and mortals are reflections of gods, so it only makes sense that we mirror each other. But the gods (being gods) have more power and are not necessarily all human gods (there are many animal gods, for instance).
 

V lad i mir

Member
I'm having some trouble here. I can't believe God, gods, or goddesses are humanoid, immortal beings, the typical things you hear, I personally think they are more ideas, ideas we hold high and strive to uphold and achieve, I believe it's just our minds that give them form and a name. I'm not one to say anyone's thinking is wrong or right, I'd like to hear other people's ideas. I live by the Wiccan way, I'm just having issues with this one particular part. Any advice, suggestions, comments would be greatly appreciated.
you will always have some trouble if you BELIEVE. believe = religion( re ligion). is this "re" says something to you?
 

Toten

Member
I'm having some trouble here. I can't believe God, gods, or goddesses are humanoid, immortal beings, the typical things you hear, I personally think they are more ideas, ideas we hold high and strive to uphold and achieve, I believe it's just our minds that give them form and a name. I'm not one to say anyone's thinking is wrong or right, I'd like to hear other people's ideas. I live by the Wiccan way, I'm just having issues with this one particular part. Any advice, suggestions, comments would be greatly appreciated.

In my point of view, they are archetypes and symbols of nature, as well as role models. I don't believe that old scripts write of gods as physical giant men riding across the sky, but rather what they represent. Thor for example not being a real mile-tall man in the sky making thunder by beating his hammer, but rather the thunder itself. And I think that that is what the metaphors in old texts mean in this context - the feeling of fear or intimidation, the experience people had with thunder and storms.
And also as role models. Deities as concepts can serve as something very motivating. "Be like Odin, become just and wise and don't be afraid to travel or wander" or "Be like Thor, become strong and proud and seek adversity".
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
If you are pragmatic about it you will obviously see the issues that arise when you start throwing words like god around. Ancient religion and contemporary religion are nothing alike in theology for the most part. They have evolved to create a very real and supernatural force as the conception of god. Something vague and impersonal yet fear inducing and anthropomorphic all at the same time.

Ancient religions had a keen eye on praxeology more than theology, In fact you can argue that theology itself is born out of philosophy not religion. To see these ancient customs and superstitions go on without insurmountable aggression is amazing in this day of age. Religion had a genuine and purer heart back in this era and has evolved into something entirely different now.

A god to me is something awe inspiring and fantastical, it must be anthropomorphic or else it is just nature. It is something of fable and legend, a personification of right/wrong speech, just/wrong action and virility/femininity. The mythos must not be departed from the character and the character must not exceed the mythos which is of great importance. If the god exceeds the mythos it runs into the trappings of monotheism.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I think that gods are Platonic Forms which are rooted in consciousness.
 
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