What "if" you are wrong

[It Aint Necessarily So]

God doesnt torture anyone. Why do people repeat things that aren't true?

That's what I was taught as a Christian:

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8

What makes you think that you know what's true regarding any possible gods, especially considering that most of your fellow Christians disagree with you? Why should anybody accept your take on the matter?

This god also allegedly tortured Jesus. Are you going to say that that didn't happen?

I realize that that's a bad look for a god, but there isn't much flattering in the rest of its description, either. How would you go about sanitizing the rest of the description of this god? It condones chattel slavery and rape. It ordered genocides. It executed children for insolence. It murdered the first born of a people after hardening a pharaoh's heart. It created a master demon and then turned it loose on humanity. It punishes homosexuals just for being homosexual.

Here's an exercise for you. Imagine that at the time of death, you are given a chance to choose between eternal consciousness and eternal unconsciousness, and your choice is irreversible. That one's pretty easy for me. Let me return to the state from which I came before I existed. The idea of eternal consciousness is foreboding. It sounds like you believe that that is the choice we all face, some earning heaven and others ceasing to exist.

So, as you see, without the threat of eternal hellfire (or even for year or a week), there isn't much incentive to worship that god even if one believes it exists unless he fears eternal unconsciousness. Heaven just isn't appealing. Worshiping a deity forever isn't appealing. What could be a more meaningless existence? It's the threat of hell that brings people to Jesus and keeps them there.

 

[Ignatius A]

That's what I was taught as a Christian:

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8

What makes you think that you know what's true regarding any possible gods, especially considering that most of your fellow Christians disagree with you? Why should anybody accept your take on the matter?

This god also allegedly tortured Jesus. Are you going to say that that didn't happen?

I realize that that's a bad look for a god, but there isn't much flattering in the rest of its description, either. How would you go about sanitizing the rest of the description of this god? It condones chattel slavery and rape. It ordered genocides. It executed children for insolence. It murdered the first born of a people after hardening a pharaoh's heart. It created a master demon and then turned it loose on humanity. It punishes homosexuals just for being homosexual.

Here's an exercise for you. Imagine that at the time of death, you are given a chance to choose between eternal consciousness and eternal unconsciousness, and your choice is irreversible. That one's pretty easy for me. Let me return to the state from which I came before I existed. The idea of eternal consciousness is foreboding. It sounds like you believe that that is the choice we all face, some earning heaven and others ceasing to exist.

So, as you see, without the threat of eternal hellfire (or even for year or a week), there isn't much incentive to worship that god even if one believes it exists unless he fears eternal unconsciousness. Heaven just isn't appealing. Worshiping a deity forever isn't appealing. What could be a more meaningless existence? It's the threat of hell that brings people to Jesus and keeps them there.

You were wrong then and you're wrong now. I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Trailblazer]

This god also allegedly tortured Jesus. Are you going to say that that didn't happen?

God tortured Jesus? That's news to me, but then I am not very proficient in the Bible since I was never a Christian.

I realize that that's a bad look for a god, but there isn't much flattering in the rest of its description, either. How would you go about sanitizing the rest of the description of this god? It condones chattel slavery and rape. It ordered genocides. It executed children for insolence. It murdered the first born of a people after hardening a pharaoh's heart. It created a master demon and then turned it loose on humanity. It punishes homosexuals just for being homosexual.

Only if one believes that the anthropomorphic God of the OT exists. I do not believe that.

Here's an exercise for you. Imagine that at the time of death, you are given a chance to choose between eternal consciousness and eternal unconsciousness, and your choice is irreversible. That one's pretty easy for me. Let me return to the state from which I came before I existed.

Given a chance to choose between eternal consciousness and eternal unconsciousness, if my choice was irreversible, it would all depend upon what the eternal consciousness was going to be like. Since I believe it will be at least a lot better than life in this world, I'd pick eternal consciousness. That said, the entire idea of continuing to exist forever is very daunting, even frightening, although the idea of nonexistence is also frightening to me.

The idea of eternal consciousness is foreboding. It sounds like you believe that that is the choice we all face, some earning heaven and others ceasing to exist.

The idea is foreboding if one does not see a bright future ahead. I believe the afterlife is what we all face, and I don't think it is a choice.
How we feel about the afterlife doesn't really matter since it will be whatever it will be, or not be anything at all, if there is no afterlife.

I do not believe it is either earning heaven and ceasing to exist; since I believe that the soul is immortal, so it cannot cease to exist.
Based upon the Baha'i Writings, I believe that all souls will continue to exist after the body dies and they will fake on another form in the spiritual world/afterlife.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

So, as you see, without the threat of eternal hellfire (or even for year or a week), there isn't much incentive to worship that god even if one believes it exists unless he fears eternal unconsciousness. Heaven just isn't appealing.

I hear you.
Did you ever see my thread on the best and worst things about heaven? It was meant to be funny, but it is more than funny, since I believe there is truth to what I said.

What are the best and worst things about heaven?

What are the best and worst things about heaven? I’ll start. There are a lot more things but these are my top 5. Best things about heaven: 1. No more cars or traffic. 2. No more houses to take care of. 3. No more physical ailments or physical pain. 4. No more grief when loved ones die. 5...

www.religiousforums.com

Worshiping a deity forever isn't appealing. What could be a more meaningless existence? It's the threat of hell that brings people to Jesus and keeps them there.

Whoever came up with the idea that in heaven we would entail worshiping a deity forever? That would be more like hell since it would be boring.
Since I like work and I hate being bored, the Baha'i belief about heaven is much more appealing.

“Those who have passed on through death, have a sphere of their own. It is not removed from ours; their work, the work of the Kingdom, is ours; but it is sanctified from what we call ‘time and place.’ Time with us is measured by the sun. When there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist for man. Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, pp. 95-96

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You were wrong then

Yes, I know, but I fixed that. I no longer believe in hell.

Nevertheless, I was correct then and still am now about what the church teaches in the main. I can't say that every minister, pastor, and priest are in agreement, but that's the message - the unsaved with burn in hell forever. And it's etched into the consciousness of Christians through the culture. Non-Christians also know what is taught even if they don't believe it. It's why we have the word hellfire. It's why "go to hell" is considered a curse. It has been the inspiration of artists like these:

It's what these church fathers and other clergy are referring to here:

[1] "In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned ... So that they may be urged the more to praise God ... The saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens ... to the damned" - Thomas Aquinas​

​

[2] "The door of mercy will be shut and all bowels of compassion denied, by God, who will laugh at their destruction; by angels and saints, who will rejoice when they see the vengeance' by their fellow-suffer the devil and the damned rejoicing over their misery." - Bishop Newcomb​

​

[3] "This display of the divine character will be most entertaining to all who love God, will give them the highest and most ineffable pleasure. Should the fire of this eternal punishment cease, it would in a great measure obscure the light of heaven, and put an end to a great part of the happiness and glory of the blessed." - Samuel Hopkins​

​

[4] "Non-Christians often ask the Christian, "But how can the God of love allow any of his creatures to suffer unending misery?" The question is, how can he not? The fact that God is love makes hell necessary." - Christian Theology in Plain Language, p. 219​

​

[5] "The view of the misery of the damned will double the ardor of the love and gratitude of the saints of heaven ... The sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the saints forever ... Can the believing father in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving children in Hell ... I tell you, yea! Such will be his sense of justice that it will increase rather than diminish his bliss." - Jonathan Edwards​

​

[6] "At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates liquefying in fiercer flames than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sages philosophers blushing in red-hot fires with their deluded pupils; so many tragedians more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings; so many dancers tripping more nimbly from anguish then ever before from applause." - Tertullian​

​

[7] "Reprobate infants are vipers of vengeance, which Jehovah will hold over hell, in the tongs of his wrath, till they turn and spit venom in his face!" - Jonathan Edwards​

​

[8] "What will it be like for a mother in heaven who sees her son burning in hell? She will glorify the justice of God." - Catholic Truth Society​

As you can see, this is church doctrine. You disregarded the scripture I posted to you, but it really doesn't matter what the scriptures say. What matters is what the church teaches its congregants.

and you're wrong now

No, I'm not. You are, as I just demonstrated.

Only if one believes that the anthropomorphic God of the OT exists. I do not believe that.

Neither do I.

Given a chance to choose between eternal consciousness and eternal unconsciousness, if my choice was irreversible, it would all depend upon what the eternal consciousness was going to be like.

I guess I left out the part where you have to make your irreversible choice before discovering what the afterlife will be like. And really, even if you got a peak at the afterlife and it looked appealing, there are no guarantees that you are correct or that it won't evolve into a nightmare.

the entire idea of continuing to exist forever is very daunting, even frightening, although the idea of nonexistence is also frightening to me.

You just haven't had much practice. I accepted the likelihood that consciousness ends with death decades ago and am quite comfortable with that. I imagine you would be as well if you had taken the same path.

Whoever came up with the idea that in heaven we would entail worshiping a deity forever?

That's also what the Christians teach. Here's some of the imagery for that.

Isn't that why God created man - to reach heaven and praise him? The first two Commandments admonish us to worship this God and no other, which begins on earth and continues into the afterlife. Many of the hymns are about praising God in the afterlife. And there's this from the Catholic Church:

"If we allow the graces of the cross to take away all in our lives that is not of God, we will eventually be ready to celebrate the perpetual Easter of heaven, in which we will sing “Holy, holy, holy,” and “Glory to God in the highest,” and “Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia,” without end, rejoicing with all the angels"

What will we sing in heaven? - Catholic Review ]:

That would be more like hell since it would be boring.

Agreed. And pointless, which makes my point that heaven isn't enough of an incentive even if you believe that, but if you believe in hell and eternal torment, then you have to choose between it and the other, and that's what the believers are taught.

 

[shunyadragon]

To all that believe a god does exist and those that believe(or lack belief) a god does not exist.....
What if you are wrong? Will it matter?

Based on my belief in Universalist Philosophy I fully accept the possibility that God of Gods do not exist. My foundation view is IF God exists then God is a Universal 'Source' some call Gods, beyond any God or Gods of any religion or belief system. Though in my studies both internal and external I believe the Gods as described in the of ancient religions do not exist. They are the fallible human perspective of what God is to them at time and culture the scriptures were written. We do not have direct knowledge of God. I do believe in God and the spiritual evolution of humanity beyond the ancient tribal religions

 

[Trailblazer]

I guess I left out the part where you have to make your irreversible choice before discovering what the afterlife will be like.

Like I said, I don't think it will be a choice. If there IS an afterlife you will have no choice except to continue to exist in it.
The only thing you have a choice about is whether to believe in the afterlife or not, and we have made our respective choices.

And really, even if you got a peak at the afterlife and it looked appealing, there are no guarantees that you are correct or that it won't evolve into a nightmare.

That is very true, there are no guarantees. Anything could happen. Unlike Christians I do not believe that I have any guarantees just because I believe in God and Jesus. I am double covered because I believe in both Jesus and Baha'u'llah, but I still don't believe there are any guarantees regarding where I will end up.

You just haven't had much practice. I accepted the likelihood that consciousness ends with death decades ago and am quite comfortable with that. I imagine you would be as well if you had taken the same path.

Of course I would believe like you if I had taken the same path and the converse also applies, but we each chose our own path so now we have to walk on it.

That's also what the Christians teach. Here's some of the imagery for that.

View attachment 89444

Then I am glad I am not a Christian! What verses did they misinterpret in the Bible to come to THAT conclusion?

Isn't that why God created man - to reach heaven and praise him? The first two Commandments admonish us to worship this God and no other, which begins on earth and continues into the afterlife. Many of the hymns are about praising God in the afterlife.

Please excuse me while I get my second cup of coffee. I could use another kind of drink, but Bahais don't drink alcohol.
Baha'is do not believe that heaven is for praising God. We did enough of that here, and that is how we got to heaven!

As I have been telling my friend @Nimos I don't care what Christians believe. Baha'is don't believe what Christians believe!
In case you want to follow our conversation it is on this thread:

Why would God's ultimate power come with ultimate responsibility?

The following is a post from an atheist I was chatting with on another forum. I told him I would post it here to get other opinions. Nothing you said addresses that with ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility. The only argument you could make is that God is either not all powerful, not...

www.religiousforums.com

And there's this from the Catholic Church:

"If we allow the graces of the cross to take away all in our lives that is not of God, we will eventually be ready to celebrate the perpetual Easter of heaven, in which we will sing “Holy, holy, holy,” and “Glory to God in the highest,” and “Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia,” without end, rejoicing with all the angels"

What will we sing in heaven? - Catholic Review ]:

That might be what Catholics want to do in heaven, but that does not say that is what God wants them to be doing. God needs no praise because God has no needs!

I thank you for helping me realize even more than I already knew how different the Baha'i Faith is from Christianity.

Agreed. And pointless, which makes my point that heaven isn't enough of an incentive even if you believe that, but if you believe in hell and eternal torment, then you have to choose between it and the other, and that's what the believers are taught.

No, not being bored is not enough of an incentive, there would need to be more than that.
That is such a sad and bad thing that Christianity teaches, that it is either heaven or hell. I do not wonder why so many people drop out and become atheists. If my only choice as between Christianity and atheist I would choose the latter hands down.

 

[Audie]

God doesnt torture anyone. Why do people repeat things that aren't true?

It doesnt get traction because of people pride. People judge God by their rules. That's just not how it works.

Of course he doesn't, he is a character in a book.
Not real.
That character, though, does horrific things

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Like I said, I don't think it will be a choice. If there IS an afterlife you will have no choice except to continue to exist in it

I don't have much of an opinion there. But that's not the point. My point was that eternal consciousness with no way out is a terrifying prospect, so much so that if I had to decide on my death bed whether I wanted to go to sleep forever or remain aware forever, I would consider choosing to remain aware for eternity is just too much of a gamble to take. I know what it's like to not be aware for billions of years, and it was a piece of cake.

What verses did they misinterpret in the Bible to come to THAT conclusion?

I don't know if the image of heaven as a praise-fest is biblical, but my other point is that it doesn't matter what scripture says. What matters is what Christian clergy teach their adherents and what Christian parents teach their children, and not just regarding doctrine, which is taught with words, but also moral instruction, which is NOT taught by words, but rather by example. It also doesn't matter if scripture says to love one another including enemies if that's not the example being set. If one's words match their deeds, that's optimal. When they contradict one another, it's the deeds and not the words which do the teaching.

 

[Trailblazer]

That character, though, does horrific things

Why would it matter if that character is not real?
I watch lots of true crime programs and those evil characters are real, which is something to be concerned about.
A God that is not real, nah.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't have much of an opinion there. But that's not the point. My point was that eternal consciousness with no way out is a terrifying prospect, so much so that if I had to decide on my death bed whether I wanted to go to sleep forever or remain aware forever, I would consider choosing to remain aware for eternity is just too much of a gamble to take. I know what it's like to not be aware for billions of years, and it was a piece of cake.

I agree that eternal consciousness with no way out is a terrifying prospect.

When my late husband was alive we used to have many discussions about the proverbial afterlife, I'll never forget those discussions.
Both of us were none too happy with life in this world and I would bemoan my plight of having to go to the afterlife and exist forever.
His response would always be the same: "It is not your choice whether or not you go to the next world when you die since that is where you will be going." We were both Baha'is so I knew he was right but I still did not like the prospect of living forever and I still don't like it.

Hey, I cannot even drive 80 miles to check on my rental house because of my anxiety, and I have not been there in 11 years, so of course I am going to be anxious about going into another dimension that is utterly unknown. My husband was not anxious about that because he had what you call Faith. I also have Faith, but it does not extend as far as the afterlife! I also think it is a dirty deal for God to not reveal what the afterlife will be like, given we believers are making so many sacrifices in this life with hopes of heaven.

I don't know if the image of heaven as a praise-fest is biblical, but my other point is that it doesn't matter what scripture says. What matters is what Christian clergy teach their adherents and what Christian parents teach their children, and not just regarding doctrine, which is taught with words, but also moral instruction, which is NOT taught by words, but rather by example. It also doesn't matter if scripture says to love one another including enemies if that's not the example being set. If one's words match their deeds, that's optimal. When they contradict one another, it's the deeds and not the words which do the teaching.

I agree, it's the deeds and not the words which matter, that is a Baha'i teaching.

5: O SON OF DUST! Verily I say unto thee: Of all men the most negligent is he that disputeth idly and seeketh to advance himself over his brother. Say, O brethren! Let deeds, not words, be your adorning. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 23-24

 

[PearlSeeker]

It doesnt get traction because of people pride. People judge God by their rules. That's just not how it works.

So barbaric acts in the Bible are ok because God is God? A wonderful excuse.

 

[Trailblazer]

So barbaric acts in the Bible are ok because God is God? Wonderful excuse.

God needs not excuse since God did not commit those barbaric acts that are in the Bible.

 

[PearlSeeker]

God needs not excuse since God did not commit those barbaric acts that are in the Bible.

But the Bible says God did it.

 

[danieldemol]

To all that believe a god does exist and those that believe(or lack belief) a god does not exist.....
What if you are wrong? Will it matter?

As a person with a specific God belief there are plenty of gods i believe dont exist.

If I'm wrong it all depends on the manner in which I'm wrong. If there is no God ill likely end up as nothing more than worm food. If my God exists it will grant me life in the spirit realm for as long as I desire it, and if there is some kind of tyrant God which throws people into eternal hell fire I'm going to get my behind burned.

 

[Viker]

To all that believe a god does exist and those that believe(or lack belief) a god does not exist.....
What if you are wrong? Will it matter?

We all could be wrong. In fact, we all are actually wrong. This is why claims to what is considered right/wrong must scrutinized.

No truth/right exists. Things can only be stated as true/right and then it's up to another to accept (often just blindly) or evaluate the claim for themselves. Therefore, right/wrong do not exist either. If what ever it may be that I am on the path to leads me to my intended goal, that positive consequence could be considered right.

Hey. Come to think about it, we're all wrong and right.

 

[1213]

"God" kills millions,

God has given life to all. Why do you think He should give eternal life for all?

ignores pain, suffering
of his " children", does nothing for anyone.

I have no reason to believe He ignores pain and suffering. We would not even exist without Him, that is why I think it is stupid to say He does nothing for anyone.

But, fail to follow his rules and don't love him
enough he will kill you then torture you.

I think it is more like, if you are evil and unrighteous, God doesn't give eternal life for you. Why do you think God should allow evil to continue eternally?

Demonstrates his love by torturing himself.

Why do you think He tortured Himself?

Representations of torture and cannibalism are
central in christianity. Drinking blood!!!

Christians don't drink blood, and they don't eat humans. Why do you think they do?

Guess why christianity does not get traction here.

It is sad that people don't seem to understand.

 

[1213]

I don't need a holy book to tell me what love is.

Then you probably don't know that Bible and God means with it.

People do believe that. I believe that.

Why? Still all people would fit on the surface of ice on the biggest lake in Finland. We have lot of room and resources. If we have problems, it is because we are not doing right decisions. But that does not depend on the number of people. Even if we would have only 2 stupid and greedy people, world would not be enough.

People say that about themselves.

Some of them say it about others and even try to make rules for others to restrict the basic human right.

 

[Ignatius A]

Yes, I know, but I fixed that. I no longer believe in hell.

Nevertheless, I was correct then and still am now about what the church teaches in the main. I can't say that every minister, pastor, and priest are in agreement, but that's the message - the unsaved with burn in hell forever. And it's etched into the consciousness of Christians through the culture. Non-Christians also know what is taught even if they don't believe it. It's why we have the word hellfire. It's why "go to hell" is considered a curse. It has been the inspiration of artists like these:

View attachment 89442View attachment 89443

It's what these church fathers and other clergy are referring to here:

[1] "In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned ... So that they may be urged the more to praise God ... The saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens ... to the damned" - Thomas Aquinas​

​

[2] "The door of mercy will be shut and all bowels of compassion denied, by God, who will laugh at their destruction; by angels and saints, who will rejoice when they see the vengeance' by their fellow-suffer the devil and the damned rejoicing over their misery." - Bishop Newcomb​

​

[3] "This display of the divine character will be most entertaining to all who love God, will give them the highest and most ineffable pleasure. Should the fire of this eternal punishment cease, it would in a great measure obscure the light of heaven, and put an end to a great part of the happiness and glory of the blessed." - Samuel Hopkins​

​

[4] "Non-Christians often ask the Christian, "But how can the God of love allow any of his creatures to suffer unending misery?" The question is, how can he not? The fact that God is love makes hell necessary." - Christian Theology in Plain Language, p. 219​

​

[5] "The view of the misery of the damned will double the ardor of the love and gratitude of the saints of heaven ... The sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the saints forever ... Can the believing father in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving children in Hell ... I tell you, yea! Such will be his sense of justice that it will increase rather than diminish his bliss." - Jonathan Edwards​

​

[6] "At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates liquefying in fiercer flames than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sages philosophers blushing in red-hot fires with their deluded pupils; so many tragedians more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings; so many dancers tripping more nimbly from anguish then ever before from applause." - Tertullian​

​

[7] "Reprobate infants are vipers of vengeance, which Jehovah will hold over hell, in the tongs of his wrath, till they turn and spit venom in his face!" - Jonathan Edwards​

​

[8] "What will it be like for a mother in heaven who sees her son burning in hell? She will glorify the justice of God." - Catholic Truth Society​

As you can see, this is church doctrine. You disregarded the scripture I posted to you, but it really doesn't matter what the scriptures say. What matters is what the church teaches its congregants.

No, I'm not. You are, as I just demonstrated.

Neither do I.

I guess I left out the part where you have to make your irreversible choice before discovering what the afterlife will be like. And really, even if you got a peak at the afterlife and it looked appealing, there are no guarantees that you are correct or that it won't evolve into a nightmare.

You just haven't had much practice. I accepted the likelihood that consciousness ends with death decades ago and am quite comfortable with that. I imagine you would be as well if you had taken the same path.

That's also what the Christians teach. Here's some of the imagery for that.

View attachment 89444
Isn't that why God created man - to reach heaven and praise him? The first two Commandments admonish us to worship this God and no other, which begins on earth and continues into the afterlife. Many of the hymns are about praising God in the afterlife. And there's this from the Catholic Church:

"If we allow the graces of the cross to take away all in our lives that is not of God, we will eventually be ready to celebrate the perpetual Easter of heaven, in which we will sing “Holy, holy, holy,” and “Glory to God in the highest,” and “Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia,” without end, rejoicing with all the angels"

What will we sing in heaven? - Catholic Review ]:


Agreed. And pointless, which makes my point that heaven isn't enough of an incentive even if you believe that, but if you believe in hell and eternal torment, then you have to choose between it and the other, and that's what the believers are taught.

The best part is you arent required to believe in hell. Too bad that won't prevent you from ending up there. Good for you for being so "smart".

 

[Ignatius A]

HoOf course he doesn't, he is a character in a book.
Not real.
That character, though, does horrific things

A fictitious character can't do anything , you get that right?

 

[Ignatius A]

So barbaric acts in the Bible are ok because God is God? A wonderful excuse.

I bet you're the kind of person that rails against people who judge others.