What Happens When You Die?

[Thief]

You're not paying attention, Thief!

Here is the question you are avoiding and not answering, instead throwing up smokescreens and diversions; I repeat:

If Genesis can be 'understood as is', then how do you reconcile what the latest findings in genetics say about Adam and Eve, namely, that mankind cannot have come from them?

And that does nothing for what happens when we die.
Start another thread.

 

[godnotgod]

And that does nothing for what happens when we die.
Start another thread.

You say you understand Genesis, but your comment here is proof positive that you fail to understand the connection between Genesis and what happens after you die, from the Christian point of view.

Goodbye, Thief. Don't need the hot air.

 

[Nakosis]

But what purpose does this design serve? You seem to be saying that God deliberately caused man's misery after having given man Paradise. This version smacks of having been concocted after the fact. It seems to me that the important question here is: how and why did man lose touch with his true nature, and I am confident that can be answered via our own self-examination. The Buddhists and Taoists have told us all along that Desire is at the root of our suffering.

Truly, “Only he that rids himself forever of desire can see the Secret Essences”;
He that has never rid himself of desire can see only the Outcomes.
These two things issued from the same mould, but nevertheless are different in name.
This “same mould” we can but call the Mystery,
Or rather the “Darker than any Mystery,”
The Doorway whence issued all Secret Essences.

Tao te Ching, Ch 1

I only see it as a necessary mechanism to hide the truth about God from ourselves. To start off the game of hide an seek requires an ignorance of God.

I'm just saying the suffering was intended as something for us to overcome. A motivation to seek the truth of things. God is responsible for it all isn't "He"? Suffering and evil exist from our perspective . Who caused us to have that perspective?

I think God knew what God was doing, or do you believe the "illusion" of pain and suffering came about by accident?

There is no game if you know where to find God.

 

[godnotgod]

I only see it as a necessary mechanism to hide the truth about God from ourselves. To start off the game of hide an seek requires an ignorance of God.

I'm just saying the suffering was intended as something for us to overcome. A motivation to seek the truth of things. God is responsible for it all isn't "He"? Suffering and evil exist from our perspective . Who caused us to have that perspective?

I think God knew what God was doing, or do you believe the "illusion" of pain and suffering came about by accident?

There is no game if you know where to find God.

Ah, so you see the game as being played by man, and not by God.

One thing, though: When you look into the face of this world, what do you see directly? You see nothing but pure variety. So the mind responsible for the manifestation of this world is a mind filled with variety. Is that not play?

What caused our perspective? A disconnect with what caused suffering and evil to begin with. If we knew the cause of our suffering, it would be easy to address. But because we are ignorant of the cause, we suffer.

Could it be that God, transfixed by his own maya, taken in, so to speak, forgot his true nature as God, and the result is man in ignorance/sleep/Identification, man who is being played by God all the while? In this case, what is called for is for man to awaken to his true nature, which is nothing else but the divine.

 

[Nakosis]

Ah, so you see the game as being played by man, and not by God.

One thing, though: When you look into the face of this world, what do you see directly? You see nothing but pure variety. So the mind responsible for the manifestation of this world is a mind filled with variety. Is that not play?

Sure a variety which I can do little about. Regardless of what I believe to be true, it's the honesty of my current perspective. I'll accept the play but it's not something I can take immediate control of.

What caused our perspective? A disconnect with what caused suffering and evil to begin with. If we knew the cause of our suffering, it would be easy to address. But because we are ignorant of the cause, we suffer.

Is or is not "God" the cause of our suffering? I don't think separation alone would be the cause of ignorance. However whatever the mechanism I think it more likely it was intended, not a accident.

Could it be that God, transfixed by his own maya, taken in, so to speak, forgot his true nature as God, and the result is man in ignorance/sleep/Identification, man who is being played by God all the while? In this case, what is called for is for man to awaken to his true nature, which is nothing else but the divine.

It could be a lot of things. Who was there to record the actual events. How does this story of Genesis come to us? Is it just a fable created by a mind as ignorant as the rest? If so then why think this story has any necessary meaning? What gives the story any value other than how we choose to see it.

I have my reasons for my perspective and you have yours. However are there any guarantees to the understanding which either of us have?

Regardless of my reasons I'm still willing to accept my telling is just a story. In your telling, do you have some reason to think otherwise?

 

[godnotgod]

Sure a variety which I can do little about. Regardless of what I believe to be true, it's the honesty of my current perspective. I'll accept the play but it's not something I can take immediate control of.

Why would anyone want control over it?

Anyway, the fact that you do accept the presence of such variety as play, and since you and I were not responsible for it, then something else certainly is. And if play is an element of that something, then we can allow for Hide and Seek as one form of play. What evidence do we have for this? Well, little babies seem to know the game of Peek A Boo, a form of Hide and Seek, intuitively, without ever having been taught.

Is or is not "God" the cause of our suffering? I don't think separation alone would be the cause of ignorance. However whatever the mechanism I think it more likely it was intended, not a accident.

Perhaps neither intentional nor unintentional. To suppose that it was deliberate is to add something to things that is not there to begin with. But if you are suffering and fail to realize the source of your suffering, then there is no solution. It can only be addressed when the cause is understood. Why would we blame God for our ignorance? Once the cause of our suffering is seen and understood, it tends to resolve itself. We don't need to DO anything, or control anything.

It could be a lot of things. Who was there to record the actual events. How does this story of Genesis come to us? Is it just a fable created by a mind as ignorant as the rest? If so then why think this story has any necessary meaning? What gives the story any value other than how we choose to see it.

Well, in the case of the orthodox version, one thing should be obvious about it: disobedience and severe punishment for a tiny infraction are foremost, and great fear is the effect. Great fear is counterproductive to happiness. So the question is: what kind of God would want to create this scenario, or is this actually God who is doing so? I see the answer as pretty obvious. This is the mind of man talking, not that of God.

When you look at the alternative version I provided, and study it, you will find that it is very much pointed to pure joy and divine union, in total contrast to the orthodox version. This is the true meaning of the allegory.

But the answers we seek are not in the dead past, not in past recorded events, but in the living present. This is why I continue to stress the realization of our own enlightenment first; then we can understand the scriptures. Enlightenment does not come from reading about the spiritual experience; it is the spiritual experience itself.

I have my reasons for my perspective and you have yours. However are there any guarantees to the understanding which either of us have?

Regardless of my reasons I'm still willing to accept my telling is just a story. In your telling, do you have some reason to think otherwise?

Yes, it dovetails with the goal of all religious and spiritual endeavor: divine union, while the orthodox version achieves exactly the opposite: separation from God. It also sets up the same kind of tension found in the Zen koan. Is there any possibility that Adam and Eve could realistically have obeyed God, in light of the overwhelming temptation deliberately planted right in their paths? If anything was planned, it was that God most certainly wanted them to eat of it, and to ensure that, he reappears to them as the serpent. But above all, we must remember that this is just an allegory to illustrate a transformation of consciousness toward divine union. As noted, the latest findings in genetics are showing that this scenario could not have been the case.

 

[Thief]

You say you understand Genesis, but your comment here is proof positive that you fail to understand the connection between Genesis and what happens after you die, from the Christian point of view.

Goodbye, Thief. Don't need the hot air.

Hello again.....got that op up yet?
Let me know.

As for what happens when 'you' die....
Likely nothing.....for 'you'....'you' don't even believe in 'yourself'.

 

[godnotgod]

As for what happens when 'you' die....
Likely nothing.....

It has now been confirmed that we will spend eternity, alive in some forgotten grave, screaming our fool heads off, while the angels laugh their fool heads off at our humiliating fate.

Ready? Grab you blankee and hot chocolate. You'll need them.

 

[mainliner]

i died in an ambulance once for about 10 seconds..........it was easy?.

truth.

 

[Thief]

It has now been confirmed that we will spend eternity, alive in some forgotten grave, screaming our fool heads off, while the angels laugh their fool heads off at our humiliating fate.

.

I see 'you' finally came to your better sense.

 

[godnotgod]

I see 'you' finally came to your better sense.

There is no 'I' that can come to a better sense, nor a better sense that anyone can come to.

Nothing exists.

Everything is Empty, even Emptiness itself.

Therefore, there is no one who dies, nor any death that anyone can undergo.

 

[Thief]

There is no 'I' that can come to a better sense, nor a better sense that anyone can come to.

Nothing exists.

Everything is Empty, even Emptiness itself.

Therefore, there is no one who dies, nor any death that anyone can undergo.

So...'you' still don't exist....

 

[mainliner]

i died for about 10 secs in an ambulance once

 

[Thief]

i died for about 10 secs in an ambulance once

Good for you?
and you get to do it again!.......permanently!

 

[mainliner]

Good for you?
and you get to do it again!.......permanently!

i thought id posted it before lol....... i looked but could find it .

is that all youve got to say .......good for

 

[godnotgod]

So...'you' still don't exist....

Of course not! Isn't it wonderful? There is no one who dies or screams their bloody head off in some dark forgotten grave somewhere. Now THAT'S cause for celebration! Alleluja!

 

[mainliner]

it doesnt hurt when you finnally go ...... you just slip into the next life

 

[Thief]

it doesnt hurt when you finnally go ...... you just slip into the next life

Well, physically you're probably right.
How about the part of you that responds to this post?
All happy and good about giving up the 'ghost'?

(you can ignore that other guy....he doesn't exist)

 

[mainliner]

Well, physically you're probably right.
How about the part of you that responds to this post?
All happy and good about giving up the 'ghost'?

(you can ignore that other guy....he doesn't exist)

are you talking about what happens to your real body?

 

[Indira]

When you are in dream-sleep, you may visualize living another life in another time, or being somewhere completely different. However, you are always right here, right now. When you awaken, you realize your dream was not real. In the same manner, we are asleep, living in a dream-world, which only seems real. This includes life and death. When these dualities are transcended and we awaken, we understand them as illusory. Most people live in Waking Sleep, the Third Level of Consciousness, in which they firmly believe themselves to be awake and that the characters they are playing are real; that their lives are real; that their deaths are real. But who, exactly, is it that lives and dies? Did you notice what Chopra said? He said that when you realize that you are not a person, then you are all set. He is saying that the character we live is not real, though it seems real. Only when we awaken and enter the Fourth Level of Consciousness, that of Self-Transcendence, do we see the illusory nature of what we normally think of as 'reality'. It is this spiritual awakening process that allows us to see that we never actually left; we have been here all along, acting out our dramas as characters in a play whose script has been written by others. We have been asleep.

What do you mean "We come to this life, and we go to the next..."? Where is 'this life' and where is 'the next'? Are you saying there are two realms of existence?

You say that life and death are 'absolute universal truths'. However, these are temporal states of existence, so how can they be 'absolute'? Once again, I ask you: who is it that lives? Who is it that dies?

No, Chopra is not merely saying that death is a continuum. He is saying we arrive where we have always been, and that is Here, Now, this eternal Present Moment. Yeshua said it:

'Before Abraham was, I AM'

Abraham was a product of history, of time. Yeshua is a spiritually awakened Master who has transcended both time and death, and lives only in the Present, where there is no history; no memory.

You see. We have all been taught that the past creates the present, but that is not so; it is the present which creates the past. The ship creates the wake; the wake does not create the ship. All things emerge from this living Present Moment to create the past.

Chopra is not saying, as religions do, that there is another world into which we go after death; he is clearly saying we return to where we have always been, and that is Here, Now.

Everything is occurring here and now. Life and death occur simultaneously, here, now.

The Buddhists tell us that to conceptualize a belief in 'another realm' is a substantial, delusive idea.

'Thou hast nor youth nor age, but, as it were, an after-dinner sleep, dreaming on both'
TS Elliot

Very much enjoying your posts..i have used 'realms' thinking to explain to myself the separation in man's views of reality but for the last year or so have become aware of the dual view in this. 'Time' keeps pulling (for lack of a better discription) in my life but as i get older i sense it is losing it's hold on me, perhaps the transition of no transition you speak of. Your knowledge intrigues me..thank you.