What, exactly, is trying to survive, and why?

[idea]

Not all life is intelligent. Wouldn't that preclude intelligence being the fire of life that survives?

What is it that makes something alive? I think all life does have a little intelligence.

Matter can be neither created nor destroyed. So at some level EVERYTHING SURVIVES FOREVER.

Yes, everything is eternal - with no end, and also no beginning.

"Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting: The soul that rises with us, our life's star, Hath had elsewhere its setting, And cometh from afar. Not in entire forgetfulness, And not in utter nakedness, But trailing clouds of glory, do we come From God, who is our home: Heaven lies about us in our infancy." - Wordsworth

We change from one form to another, and hopefully learn and grow through it all. To me, that is what life is - something that grows and progresses. Plant vs. a rock? The plant grows.

 

[Bunyip]

I think it's more accurate to say we have progressed through changing.

No, evolution has no direction. It is change, not progression.

 

[HiEv]

What is it that makes something alive?

The ability to consume and metabolize substances and energy via biological processes is what makes something alive.

I think all life does have a little intelligence.

"Intelligence" is defined as the "capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.". I'm sorry, but unless you're broadening that definition to the point of uselessness, the fact is that no plants, bacteria, protists, archaea, or fungi possess intelligence. Animals are the only species capable of intelligence, and not all animals are intelligent either.

Yes, everything is eternal - with no end, and also no beginning.

No, this is completely incorrect. If I have a piece of paper, that paper didn't exist until it was manufactured, and if I burn it up, then it no longer exists, thus it had both a beginning and an end. Yes, the matter and energy that made it up existed before and after that piece of paper, but the paper itself as a particular construction of matter and energy had a very definite beginning and end.

No amount of poetry changes that fact.

We change from one form to another, and hopefully learn and grow through it all. To me, that is what life is - something that grows and progresses. Plant vs. a rock? The plant grows.

As Bunyip said, evolution isn't about "progress", it's simply about survival. For example, cave fish evolved to lose their eyesight because sight is not necessary for them so growing eyes wastes resources, is that "progress"?

"Progress" suggests that there is some kind of goal to progress towards. Evolution has no goals.

 

[chinu]

What, exactly, is trying to survive, and why?

"EGO" because of "EGO"

 

[Etritonakin]

Life survives -generally becomes more complex and capable -just because it does...... at least that is what some believe.
Without a creator, there is no reason or purpose in the origin of life -and some believe that purpose began to exist when life evolved to the point of assigning purpose. Though, technically, things may have served a purpose before that, there was no intended purpose in things serving a purpose.
or somethin

 

[shawn001]

[QUOT
"
1 Viruses are not alive: They do not have cells, they cannot turn food into energy, and without a host they are just inert packets of chemicals.

2 Viruses are not exactly dead, either: They have genes, they reproduce, and they evolve through natural selection.
E="idea, post: 4110856, member: 14553"]What is it that makes something alive? I think all life does have a little intelligence.



Yes, everything is eternal - with no end, and also no beginning.

"Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting: The soul that rises with us, our life's star, Hath had elsewhere its setting, And cometh from afar. Not in entire forgetfulness, And not in utter nakedness, But trailing clouds of glory, do we come From God, who is our home: Heaven lies about us in our infancy." - Wordsworth

We change from one form to another, and hopefully learn and grow through it all. To me, that is what life is - something that grows and progresses. Plant vs. a rock? The plant grows.[/QUOTE]


What about viruses?
20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses
The one with its own satellite, the ones that made you, and the Mama of them all


"1 Viruses are not alive: They do not have cells, they cannot turn food into energy, and without a host they are just inert packets of chemicals.

2 Viruses are not exactly dead, either: They have genes, they reproduce, and they evolve through natural selection."

14 In fact, scratch the whole concept of “us versus them.” Half of all human DNA originally came from viruses, which infected and embedded themselves in our ancestors’ egg and sperm cells.

20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses | DiscoverMagazine.com

 

[Looncall]

I love that analogy. So, what is the fire of life that survives? I think it's more than information, I think it's intelligence.



There is nothing wrong with something being subjective in my opinion. Personal opinions & points of view, feelings and beliefs - these are all real entities. To pretend that feelings are not real, that they do not count for anything is to discount any meaning or purpose in life? Meaning is a product of relationships with one another? I can agree with that.

How much genealogy have you done? Everyone has a very large family... plus there is that 6.6 degrees of separation...

It is the history of the fire that continues. Life is the same. It's like grandpa's axe that has had both haft and head replaced as needed, but is still grandpa's axe.

Nothing mystical or magic is needed to explain life.

 

[idea]

The ability to consume and metabolize substances and energy via biological processes is what makes something alive.

My lawnmower consumes energy, but it is not alive. I guess you have to define biological process...

"Intelligence" is defined as the "capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.". I'm sorry, but unless you're broadening that definition to the point of uselessness, the fact is that no plants, bacteria, protists, archaea, or fungi possess intelligence. Animals are the only species capable of intelligence, and not all animals are intelligent either.

There are different levels of intelligence - but all living things have the ability to "act" rather than just to be "acted upon"... rock vs. plant, the plant tries to reach water with it's roots and tries to reach the sun with it's leaves... a rock does not try to do anything, it just sits there being acted upon by its surroundings.

No, this is completely incorrect. If I have a piece of paper, that paper didn't exist until it was manufactured, and if I burn it up, then it no longer exists, thus it had both a beginning and an end. Yes, the matter and energy that made it up existed before and after that piece of paper, but the paper itself as a particular construction of matter and energy had a very definite beginning and end.

Laplace's demon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Laplace's Demon - I guess I'm a determinist, I believe the past and future is within the present... that the paper exists eternally within the matter and energy it is made of.

As Bunyip said, evolution isn't about "progress", it's simply about survival. For example, cave fish evolved to lose their eyesight because sight is not necessary for them so growing eyes wastes resources, is that "progress"?

not wasting resources is progress, yes.

"Progress" suggests that there is some kind of goal to progress towards. Evolution has no goals.

You have named "survival" as a goal. I personally think there are more goals than surviving... talk to most people, and they don't want to just survive, they want to be happy.