What does the Bible say about conversion?

[KPereira]

My friend spoke to me just yesterday. She couldn't stop crying, so I asked her what was wrong. She said that her boyfriend doesn't know God. Apparently this fellow isn't a Christian and this is really upsetting her. She asked me to pray to God that he 'finds God and becomes a Christian'.

I told her, 'Melanie...I can't do that'. Of course I can't do that. If I was asked to pray for just about anything else, sure thing. But I'm surely not going to pray to God for someone's conversion. So, I asked her if she thinks all non-Christians are going to hell and she said she KNOWS they are going to hell.

I disagreed with her and an argument ensued. Personally, I don't think that God will send non-Christians to hell. First off, God is supposed to be loving. Why would he send good people who have done nothing wrong (save not believing in him) to hell? What about those people who lived before Christianity was around? Did they all go to hell? What about Jesus? Jesus was a Jew, so did he go to hell, too?

I found her logic very, very faulty. However, whenever I disproved one of her points, she'd say 'You don't understand. Trust me here. I'm right'. And would not elaborate further. The second point to my argument was that it says in the Bible (from Jesus, Himself) not to judge others because God the Father is the only one who can judge. If she figures he's going to hell for the sole reason of him not being Christian, she's judging him. She's directly contradicting Jesus' teachings.

My third point was that it is his choice. God gave us free will to do as we please. If her boyfriend wishes to learn about Christianity, all the power to him. If not, that's his choice too. If I prayed to God to forcibly convert this fellow, that'd be taking away his free will.

My fourth point was that her logic was akin to a terrorist's. Extremist Muslims, for example, forcibly convert people. If they don't convert, they get killed. The only difference is that she's (thank God) unwilling to kill. She said 'I know in my heart that this is best for him'. I told her, 'And don't you think those extremists think the same about you? Each religion claims it is the right one. You are no different than an extremist.' - Again, apparently I don't understand...

My fifth point was that even if her logic is Biblically supported, it comes into many contradictions with other verses. By all means, preach the word of God to those who are willing to listen. Don't force it down their throats! If forced conversion is encouraged in the Bible, it contradicts the whole notion of free will. She's judging others if he thinks he going to hell. She is being self-righteous by implicitly saying 'I'm better than you because I'm Christian'. Am I missing something here? My God, if the Bible supports forced conversion, I'm high-tailing it out of Christianity. I can't belong to a group like that.

This leads me to the whole point of my rant here. What does the Bible say about converting people? Is it taught to forcibly convert, or isn't it? What is your opinion on the matter? Thanks in advance.

 

[lunamoth]

I don't agree with your friend's thinking, but I also don't think that praying for someone amounts to forced conversion. I also would not pray for someone to "see the light and become a Christian," but I would pray for a friend to be given whatever they need for their salvation. I think I'd leave it up to God what that meant.

 

[KPereira]

I don't agree with your friend's thinking, but I also don't think that praying for someone amounts to forced conversion. I also would not pray for someone to "see the light and become a Christian," but I would pray for a friend to be given whatever they need for their salvation. I think I'd leave it up to God what that meant.

If she wanted me to pray for him to lead a better life, being more Christ-like (though not necessarily a Christian...non-Christians can be Christ-like, too) - I'd do it in a flash. But she told me to pray that he "finds Christianity". That, in my opinion, means praying for his conversion. I can't do that for the reasons I mentioned before.

 

[lunamoth]

If she wanted me to pray for him to lead a better life, being more Christ-like (though not necessarily a Christian...non-Christians can be Christ-like, too) - I'd do it in a flash. But she told me to pray that he "finds Christianity". That, in my opinion, means praying for his conversion. I can't do that for the reasons I mentioned before.

I wouldn't do that (pray for conversion) either.

 

[may]

So, I asked her if she thinks all non-Christians are going to hell and she said she KNOWS they are going to hell.
.

and the GOODNEWS is supposed to be GOODNEWS . matthew 24;14 but many are fed BADNEWS , and many are misled by it , false religious teachers have a lot to answer for . it is no wonder that God wants his people to get out of False religion revelation 18;4 ............ all i can say is FLEEEEEEEEEE. GET OUT OF IT . the bible does not teach HELLFIRE .

 

[sojourner]

I'd say your friend's POV is myopic. Forced conversion is not part of the Christian paradigm. Never was. It appears her religious zeal is causing her more stress than it is bringing her peace...

 

[ChristineES]

Christians are obligated to tell people who have never heard the word of God about the Gospel, but if the person has already heard it, then their job is over. It is up to the individual whether to accept or reject it. We are not supposed to convert anyone, just give the message.

As for condemnation, no one but God knows a person's heart (and the person himself). God can save anyone He wants to. While I don't believe He forces people to believe, He may find someone who has The Word "written in his or her heart". In other words, we may see people after the resurrection who we did not expect to see.

 

[KPereira]

Thank you for all your answers. This is very much appreciated!

 

[joeboonda]

Every great revival where thousands got saved began with people praying for lost souls. It is an extremely important duty for us to pray for the lost and tell them the good news that Jesus loves them and has already paid in full for all their sins and they need only accept that as a totally free gift.

 

[sojourner]

Every great revival where thousands got saved began with people praying for lost souls. It is an extremely important duty for us to pray for the lost and tell them the good news that Jesus loves them and has already paid in full for all their sins and they need only accept that as a totally free gift.

And most ended in orgiastic frenzy.

 

[joeboonda]

And most ended in orgiastic frenzy.

Say what? Sounds like you are describing a pagan temple sex orgy instead of a revival of God. So, tell me how the Great Awakening in which thousands were saved ended in this way? How, when Peter preached at Pentecost and 3,000 were saved that day end in this way? You drunk or something?

 

[Anastasios]

And most ended in orgiastic frenzy.

:yes:

 

[Anastasios]

Every great revival where thousands got saved began with people praying for lost souls. It is an extremely important duty for us to pray for the lost and tell them the good news that Jesus loves them and has already paid in full for all their sins and they need only accept that as a totally free gift.

:no:. That is one of the main reasons for escapades of many Christians. Nope! Heaven cannot be that cheap! why do you think you are selected people? what makes you special? Nope! every one of us is the same, whether you belive in your wierd theory above or not! Jesus didn't make any nation or denomination superior on others, as Muhammad did not either. If you think deeply you will see i what I mean, even, if you are honest enough, you may see that Jesus never intented to establish or practised a new religion that is today's Christianity.
Come on, be reasonable...

Regards

 

[joeboonda]

:no:. That is one of the main reasons for escapades of many Christians. Nope! Heaven cannot be that cheap! why do you think you are selected people? what makes you special? Nope! every one of us is the same, whether you belive in your wierd theory above or not! Jesus didn't make any nation or denomination superior on others, as Muhammad did not either. If you think deeply you will see i what I mean, even, if you are honest enough, you may see that Jesus never intented to establish or practised a new religion that is today's Christianity.
Come on, be reasonable...

Regards

I am quite reasonable, thank-you for that kind remark. Who said Heaven was cheap? God gave his Son to DIE to redeem us from our sin. We do not believe we are a select people for the Bible says God so loved THE WORLD that he sent his only Son that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. That there is no difference between the Jew or the Greek or the Gentile but we are all one in Christ Jesus. It is not a 'weird theory' but the Bible truth of God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus said to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel and told the disciples to wait until the Holy Spirit came to empower them. That day 3,000 people heard the Gospel that Christ died, was buried and rose again and believed in him and were saved. Please one question at a time in the future or I will ignore you.

 

[s2a]

KPereira posed:

What does the Bible say about conversion?

My friend spoke to me just yesterday. She couldn't stop crying, so I asked her what was wrong. She said that her boyfriend doesn't know God. Apparently this fellow isn't a Christian and this is really upsetting her. She asked me to pray to God that he 'finds God and becomes a Christian'.

I told her, 'Melanie...I can't do that'. Of course I can't do that. If I was asked to pray for just about anything else, sure thing. But I'm surely not going to pray to God for someone's conversion.

Why not? Is there a downside to an earnest and penitent conversion?

So, I asked her if she thinks all non-Christians are going to hell and she said she KNOWS they are going to hell.

I disagreed with her and an argument ensued.

Did you ask her what revelation led her to conclude as much?

Personally, I don't think that God will send non-Christians to hell.

Is yours an interpretation supported by Scripture? If so, where?

First off, God is supposed to be loving.

"Supposed to be"? Is He, or is He not?

Why would he send good people who have done nothing wrong (save not believing in him) to hell?

Indeed.

What about those people who lived before Christianity was around? Did they all go to hell?

Who knows? Do you?

What about Jesus? Jesus was a Jew, so did he go to hell, too?

The NT suggests that He did not...

I found her logic very, very faulty.

Is faith testable by logical means/measures?

However, whenever I disproved one of her points, she'd say 'You don't understand. Trust me here. I'm right'. And would not elaborate further.

Odd that...

The second point to my argument was that it says in the Bible (from Jesus, Himself) not to judge others because God the Father is the only one who can judge.

Is that all of what Jesus had to say on the topic?

If she figures he's going to hell for the sole reason of him not being Christian, she's judging him. She's directly contradicting Jesus' teachings.

Is she?

John 14:6 --
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

What does Jesus mean to say here? Exactly?

My third point was that it is his choice. God gave us free will to do as we please. If her boyfriend wishes to learn about Christianity, all the power to him. If not, that's his choice too. If I prayed to God to forcibly convert this fellow, that'd be taking away his free will.

Hmm. What about "conversion" by witness of...a miracle? A pious testimony? A personal revelation as delivered from the Holy Ghost? Is there some logical argument to made against a promised eternal existence of joy and happiness? What sort of "free will" would reject such a promise?

My fourth point was that her logic was akin to a terrorist's. Extremist Muslims, for example, forcibly convert people. If they don't convert, they get killed.

Oh, I understand. Just like the Crusades, the Roman Catholic Inquisitions, et al.? Shall we think better of Pope Innocent III, or Pope Gregory IX in their righteous impositions of "God's Will"?

What are the appreciable differences between an "extremist" believer, versus those deeming themselves as "moderates", or liberal" believers?

The only difference is that she's (thank God) unwilling to kill. She said 'I know in my heart that this is best for him'. I told her, 'And don't you think those extremists think the same about you? Each religion claims it is the right one. You are no different than an extremist.' - Again, apparently I don't understand...

You have my sympathies...

Could you cite Scripture quoting Jesus directly in which He suggests that alternate religious views/interpretations are equally legitimate/acceptable in the eyes of His "Father"? What does the very first Commandment suggest (ie, COMMAND)?

My fifth point was that even if her logic is Biblically supported, it comes into many contradictions with other verses.

And what solidarity of "message" shall we glean from that perspective?

By all means, preach the word of God to those who are willing to listen. Don't force it down their throats! If forced conversion is encouraged in the Bible, it contradicts the whole notion of free will.

Well...waitaminnit. Does Scripture suggest that forced "conversions" are condoned by God, or not? What about phenomena attributed as being miraculous, or as some manifested divine intervention? Can/should God be limited in HIs own choosing of "converts"? If divine redemption/salvation can only be manifested by human endeavors, than what purpose or value would divinely instigated "miracles" serve in challenging unbelievers to convert?

She's judging others if he thinks he going to hell.

And the wages of sin are...?

She is being self-righteous by implicitly saying 'I'm better than you because I'm Christian'.

Yep.

Am I missing something here? My God, if the Bible supports forced conversion, I'm high-tailing it out of Christianity. I can't belong to a group like that.

I guess it depends upon your own perspective.

Is a child raised from birth to be a Catholic, a Methodist, a Taoist, or an Islamist...a "forced convert", or not? What might constitute an uniformed choice? Can a child lend informed consent to molesting sexual relations any more than they might to any inculcated religious adherence? What elements of religious "free will" does an eight-year-old child retain? At what age is a person fully emancipated to exercise any individualistic "free will"...including skepticism and unbelief?

This leads me to the whole point of my rant here. What does the Bible say about converting people? Is it taught to forcibly convert, or isn't it? What is your opinion on the matter? Thanks in advance.

Hmmm. Here's the most compelling "commandment" regarding a "mission statement" of garnering converts to Chrsitianity...

Matthew 28:18-20
"Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Such is the "grand commission" as commanded by God (via Jesus) for all Christians to faithfully obey and fulfill. Any questions?

 

[threeangelstrumpet]

God is love, but love is not tolerance. When Satan sinned he was cast out of heavenly paradise. When 1/3 of the holy angels sinned they also were put out of God's glorious kingdom. Our Heavenly Father is too loving to condone sanction or allow sin to flourish i heaven or on earth. When Adam and Eve sinned they were expelled from holy Eden. When Cain sinned he bore the curse of the Almighty God and was DAMNED according to his wicked works. Those who commited sin in their thoughts and imaginations were destroyed by th flood.And the man and women of Sodom and Gommorah becaused of their sin were condemned by fire from heaven. The Bible is clear on how a holy God will deal with those who transgress His Law and His plain commands.
Praise God that He in not only a wise,strict Ruler against all sin and sinners but that He ALSO is compassionate and has given us His Son Jesus to cleanse us from all our sinful thoughts and desires and make us perfectly holy like Himself that we may enter into eternal life with Jeus Christ in Paradise.

 

[threeangelstrumpet]

Let me answer th questions as the Holy Ghost moves me.
First, anyone who does not believe in Christ as their personal Saviour from their personal sins is DOOMED to HELLFIRE!

2Thes1:7,8 plainly says Christ will come "in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Chrsit.

Jesus says all who don't believe in Him are CONDEMNED and they have CONDEMNED themselves.John3:17,18

The Bible says God's WRATH will take down all who refuse to believe in Him for salvation from sin.John 3:36

Revelation21:7,8 make it plain that the unbelieving will burn in hellfire.

Worshipping other gods such as Allah,budda etc. etc. is sin according to Scripture.No such sinners against the Lord will ente into glory.They must repent of their sin and worship the Lrod Jesus Chrsit who can transform sinning sinners into perfectly loving sinless saints

 

[Rakhel]

As Frankenstein said, "IT...IS...ALIVE!!!!"

 

[threeangelstrumpet]

God will not send good people to hell? What is your definiton of good? God's definiton in the BIBLE is not what most world people and PROFESSED christians definitan is.
Most people spend little,if not, no time alone in nature with God and thier Bibles in earnest prayer and study. They watch television movie and shows which display sin. Listen to music whose lyrics and beats protray and justify sin. Play video games filled with violence, socery and sin.They desire sin. Dress in immodest sinful clothing. Take God's name in vain. Speak idle worrds, filthy and idle jokes,use dirty language.........lust,masturbate,fornicate and threaten and insult people.

This is NOT GOOD. It is as sinful as the DEVIL HIMSELF. All such sinners in need of the TRUE JESUS WHO SVES YOU FROM THESE SINS but reject Him to continue in their sins will die in Hellfire. God doesn't put them there......but their own unrighteous lifestyles.

 

[threeangelstrumpet]

God's people must be LOVING. Love will not tell lies. Oh no, beloved neither will it withold the truth. To sepak truth is not to judge some, it si simply to speak the truth beneficial for them to hear...........it was love which moved th prophets and apostles and Jesus Himself to expose and rebuke sins and make it plain to others where they will end up if they don't have a Holy Ghost revival of heart and life.