What do these Bible verses mean?

[Trailblazer]

As far as I understand Jesus will come back in the end time, To take the saved souls with him.
But if it actually will happen I do not know

Jesus never said He would return in the same body.
Jesus died on the cross and then He said "it is finished."
Jesus did not rise from the grave and ascend into the sky in the same body so Jesus could not come back in the same body.

The Church invented these false doctrines, they did not come from Jesus.

Importance of Jesus saying “It is finished”
When Jesus cried out "It is finished," he meant "It was finished in the past, it is still finished in the present, and it will remain finished in the future."

Note one other fact. He did not say, "I am finished," for that would imply that he died defeated and exhausted. Rather, he cried out "It is finished," meaning "I successfully completed the work I came to do."
https://www.christianity.com/jesus/death-and-resurrection/last-words/what-was-finished.html

 

[shmogie]

Hi
There may be a couple of diveregent views about the specifics of these scriptures amongst those who claim to be christian but NO reading can possibly fit the idea the Jesus was to return re-incarnated as a different person who then lives a life and dies.
That is absolutely ridiculous, you bahai's should not misuse scripture as you do. The muslims, who you also claim as your religious lineage, would also tell you that your idea was in no way compatable with any Abrahamic thought.

If you are fishing for some way to incorporate what you have been told about the claim of your prophet with the biblical narrative it is impossible. There is no way that i can think of to even twist things to make it fit within the biblical context.

You should just accept that the fact that the bahai teachings are incompatible with christianity and stop claiming that you are doing anything other than teaching the opposite of what Christ taught.
Peace

Jesus never said He would return in the same body.
The Church invented that false doctrine.

He will return in the resurrected body, the same body that Thomas felt in which the holes in His Hands.

When He ascended in this body He told the Apostles that in like manner He would return, in the body they saw, and in the clouds of the air.

Tell me, was your prophet buried at death? Was he resurrected and seen by many people, followed by an acension ?

Christ performed miracles as His credentials showing He had the Authority of God.

Are any miracles attributed to your prophet ? If so, where did his power to do them come from ?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Jesus never said He would return in the same body.
Jesus died on the cross and then He said "it is finished."
Jesus did not rise from the grave and ascend into the sky in the same body so Jesus could not come back in the same body.

The Church invented these false doctrines, they did not come from Jesus.

Importance of Jesus saying “It is finished”
When Jesus cried out "It is finished," he meant "It was finished in the past, it is still finished in the present, and it will remain finished in the future."

Note one other fact. He did not say, "I am finished," for that would imply that he died defeated and exhausted. Rather, he cried out "It is finished," meaning "I successfully completed the work I came to do."
Why Did Jesus say “It Is Finished”? Meaning and Importance of His Last Words

not in same body,body is only physical

 

[Enoch07]

Nowhere in Mathew 24:1-5 does Jesus say He will return to earth...

Mathew 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The underlined section above. They asked Him when the end of the world and His return will be. His response.

Mathew 24:4-5

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Nowhere in the NT does Jesus say He will return to earth.

Keep reading the scripture.

Mathew 24:6-12

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

(Sound familiar)

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

(Cancel culture)

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

(Snowflake culture)

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

(Various false prophets from various religions falsely claiming they have Christ returned)

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

(I relate so much!)

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bab ? Your understanding of Christian eschatology is fatally flawed. Whoever the Bab was, he was just another false prophet. You certainly are welcome to him, but it is an error I believe.

I do not care what the Christian doctrines say, I only care about what Jesus said.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus ever promise to return in the same body. That is how we can know that Jesus never planned to return in the same body.

 

[shmogie]

I do not care what the Christian doctrines say, I only care about what Jesus said.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus ever promise to return in the same body. That is how we can know that Jesus never planned to return in the same body.

What does "in like manner as you have seen¨ mean to you ?

 

[Trailblazer]

not in same body,body is only physical

That's right. Jesus never promised to return in the same body. Jesus promised to send His Spirit.

Jesus said His work was finished here. That means He had no more work to do Himself.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus said that there was more work to be done but that the world was not ready to hear what He had to say (the many things), but that work would be done by the Spirit of truth.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jesus prepared the way for someone who would come after Him, and Jesus referred to Him as the Comforter and the Spirit of truth.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Baha’u’llah was the Comforter and the Spirit of truth. Baha’u’llah did everything Jesus said the Comforter and Spirit of truth would do, including testifying of Jesus and glorifying Jesus, which is clearly written in this passage where He referred to Jesus as the Son of Man:

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

 

[Spirit of Light]

That's right. Jesus never promised to return in the same body. Jesus promised to send His Spirit.

Jesus said His work was finished here. That means He had no more work to do Himself.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus said that there was more work to be done but that the world was not ready to hear what He had to say (the many things), but that work would be done by the Spirit of truth.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jesus prepared the way for someone who would come after Him, and Jesus referred to Him as the Comforter and the Spirit of truth.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Baha’u’llah was the Comforter and the Spirit of truth. Baha’u’llah did everything Jesus said the Comforter and Spirit of truth would do, including testifying of Jesus and glorifying Jesus, which is clearly written in this passage where He referred to Jesus as the Son of Man:

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

I am not going into a discussion of what Christian says and what Baha`I say. I just don't know enough about the topic

 

[Trailblazer]

What does "in like manner as you have seen¨ mean to you ?

The disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am not going into a discussion of what Christian says and what Baha`I say. I just don't know enough about the topic

I fully understand.

 

[shmogie]

The disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

Translation please

 

[Trailblazer]

Translation please

Essentially what it means is that the Spirit of Jesus (the Christ Spirit) would return in another human being that God would send. Jesus was the first Comforter, but Jesus said He would send another Comforter.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

That is in keeping with what I said in post #27.

 

[Moz]

Essentially what it means is that the Spirit of Jesus (the Christ Spirit) would return in another human being that God would send. Jesus was the first Comforter, but Jesus said He would send another Comforter.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

That is in keeping with what I said in post #27.

Hi

If, as you claim, the muslims are part of your progression then they have already occupied the postion of the comforter that would be sent.
Is the mulim claim that mohummad is the comforter is true then you guys are out of luck,. If the muslim claim is false then you guys are out of luck. Again by claiming to be connected to the past revelations the bahai claim falls apart. Give it up,

 

[Trailblazer]

He will return in the resurrected body, the same body that Thomas felt in which the holes in His Hands.

When He ascended in this body He told the Apostles that in like manner He would return, in the body they saw, and in the clouds of the air.

Tell me, was your prophet buried at death? Was he resurrected and seen by many people, followed by an acension ?

Christ performed miracles as His credentials showing He had the Authority of God.

Are any miracles attributed to your prophet ? If so, where did his power to do them come from ?

Firstly, I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus rose from the grave. I believe that when Jesus died, His soul ascended to heaven, to the Right Hand of God. In heaven, Jesus got a spiritual body comprised of spiritual elements that are found in the spiritual realm (heaven) and that is what Jesus has now.

Jesus said that His work was finished here on earth and He was no more in the world, so there is no reason why Jesus would return, even if He could return, which would be impossible because physical bodies cannot live in the spiritual realm, only spiritual bodies exist there. It could have been the spiritual body of Jesus that returned and appeared to the disciples, I don't know. There is no reason to think that Jesus could not make His spiritual body appear physical to the disciples since it is an exact replica, only without any physical properties.

Both Jesus and Baha'u'llah got all their power and Authority from God, not from any miracles they performed.

Baha'u'llah performed miracles similar to Jesus but that is not what made either one of them special. What made them special is that God chose them for a mission and they completed that mission for God. What made them special is that they were made of the very substance of God Himself, rather than just being ordinary human beings.

“But in the day of the Manifestation the people with insight see that all the conditions of the Manifestation are miracles, for They are superior to all others, and this alone is an absolute miracle. Recollect that Christ, solitary and alone, without a helper or protector, without armies and legions, and under the greatest oppression, uplifted the standard of God before all the people of the world, and withstood them, and finally conquered all, although outwardly He was crucified. Now this is a veritable miracle which can never be denied. There is no need of any other proof of the truth of Christ……..

The meaning is not that the Manifestations are unable to perform miracles, for They have all power. But for Them inner sight, spiritual healing and eternal life are the valuable and important things. Consequently, whenever it is recorded in the Holy Books that such a one was blind and recovered his sight, the meaning is that he was inwardly blind, and that he obtained spiritual vision, or that he was ignorant and became wise, or that he was negligent and became heedful, or that he was worldly and became heavenly.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 101-102

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus never promised to return, not once in the NT. It was the Christians who *believed* that he would return.

Are you sure you don't know much about the NT? And, you don't have time to read it... let alone study it? Anyway, this is Revelation 22. For Bible-believing Christians, which you and I are not, it implies Jesus is coming back.
Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

Who is the Lamb? For Christians it is Jesus. For Baha'is? What do you think?

4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”
7 “Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”

Who is coming soon? I don't know of anybody that came soon. Baha'is believe Muhammad was the next manifestaton and that wasn't until 600 years later. If this is Baha'u'llah, he didn't come until almost 2000 years later.

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.
9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”
10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

Don't seal these words, because the time is near? What was near? The end times? The return of the Christ Spirit? What?

11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Apparently Jesus is speaking now? How? Through the angel? But anyway, It says "I, Jesus"

17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

It says "I am coming soon"? Christians usually say that in God's time a couple thousand years isn't very long, so to God, it is still "soon". For Baha'is, Muhammad came and went, then The Bah, then Baha'u'llah. You believe in 3 "coming soons." But in verse 20 it sounds like whoever this John is that received this prophecy cuts in and says, "Come, Lord Jesus"? Why would he say that? Why would he think that? For Christians, no problem, Jesus is alive and coming back... someday. For Baha'is, how do you explain why the person receiving this vision and prophecy thought it would be Jesus coming back?

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi

If, as you claim, the muslims are part of your progression then they have already occupied the postion of the comforter that would be sent.
Is the mulim claim that mohummad is the comforter is true then you guys are out of luck,. If the muslim claim is false then you guys are out of luck. Again by claiming to be connected to the past revelations the bahai claim falls apart. Give it up,

The Comforter is a title given to a Manifestation of God who brings the Holy Spirit. That is why the following verse says that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jesus was a Manifestation of God who brought the Holy Spirit, so He was a Comforter...
Muhammad was a Manifestation of God who brought the Holy Spirit, so He was a Comforter...
Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God who brought the Holy Spirit, so He was a Comforter...

What Muslims claim has nothing to do with what Muhammad actually said. I do not think that Muhammad ever made the claim in the Qur'an to be "the Comforter" that Jesus was referring to in the NT.

The Comforter that Jesus was referring to in John 14, 15 and 16 was Baha'u'llah, and Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Comforter and the Spirit of truth that Jesus (the Spirit) covenanted with the Christians.

“Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you. Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 63

For Baha'u'llah to say that He was your Lord in no way means that Jesus was not also your Lord, because Baha'u'llah was the return of your Lord Jesus. I do not mean that in the sense of reincarnation; I mean he was the return of the Spirit of Jesus in another body (the return of the Holy Spirit), not the return of the soul of Jesus in another body. Jesus and Baha'u'llah each had their own soul that was unique to them, but they shared the same Holy Spirit of God. In order to understand what I mean by that, it is necessary for me to post the following:

Jesus and Baha’u’llah were humans, just like you and I. They had special powers and capacities, so they were more than ordinary humans; but they were also human. The third station is what differentiates Manifestations of God from all other humans:

“Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated.

The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This also is phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind.

The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 151-152

From: 38: THE THREE STATIONS OF THE DIVINE MANIFESTATIONS

 

[shmogie]

Firstly, I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus rose from the grave. I believe that when Jesus died, His soul ascended to heaven, to the Right Hand of God. In heaven, Jesus got a spiritual body comprised of spiritual elements that are found in the spiritual realm (heaven) and that is what Jesus has now.

Jesus said that His work was finished here on earth and He was no more in the world, so there is no reason why Jesus would return, even if He could return, which would be impossible because physical bodies cannot live in the spiritual realm, only spiritual bodies exist there. It could have been the spiritual body of Jesus that returned and appeared to the disciples, I don't know. There is no reason to think that Jesus could not make His spiritual body appear physical to the disciples since it is an exact replica, only without any physical properties.

Both Jesus and Baha'u'llah got all their power and Authority from God, not from any miracles they performed.

Baha'u'llah performed miracles similar to Jesus but that is not what made either one of them special. What made them special is that God chose them for a mission and they completed that mission for God. What made them special is that they were made of the very substance of God Himself, rather than just being ordinary human beings.
Where are these miracles recorded, and who witnessed them ? Christ said His miracles were a sign of the authority and power he had.

The Apotles asked Christ if he was a ghost/spirit after the resurrection, He showed them the holes in his hands, and the gash in his side, then asked ¨ does a spirit have flesh and bones ? ´ Obviously referring to Himself.

Matthew 24 - 30 Christ describes his return to the earth, after the tribulation ¨and they will SEE the son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory¨. He speaks of his literal return in a number of places.

He also speaks of many false prophets. He never says that there will be another genuine one.

Your prophet died, and he rests waiting for the resurrection. He was not Christ, and I don´t want to be mean,, but he was just another false prophet.

Either Christ was who He said He was , or He was not. Either the Apostles taught the truth or they did not.

Christ said He was the Son of God, that He was God. He said after the Resurrection that He would return clearly visible. He spoke of no prophets coming and He certainly did not say that He would come again as someone else, and would live, then just die.

I suggest that you get a proper translation, and read the Gospels, learn for yourself exactly who Christ is and what He taught. Try to be totally objective.

There is no room in the Gospels, or Christs teachings for anyone but Him, for He is the salvation of the world, there is no other, there can be no other.

He is the only way to salvation, there is no other way, no false prophet, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Mohammed, or your guy can lead you anywhere with their writings or sayings that Christ wants you to go.

Some can lead you to hell.

Accept Christ for exactly who He said He was, and His teachings as the only true word of God, or reject him. You cannot have Him as He is, and have others that are false. You cannot cover all the bets so you will have the right way.

There is only one way

 

[CG Didymus]

Firstly, I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus rose from the grave. I believe that when Jesus died, His soul ascended to heaven, to the Right Hand of God. In heaven, Jesus got a spiritual body comprised of spiritual elements that are found in the spiritual realm (heaven) and that is what Jesus has now.

Jesus said that His work was finished here on earth and He was no more in the world, so there is no reason why Jesus would return, even if He could return, which would be impossible because physical bodies cannot live in the spiritual realm, only spiritual bodies exist there. It could have been the spiritual body of Jesus that returned and appeared to the disciples, I don't know. There is no reason to think that Jesus could not make His spiritual body appear physical to the disciples since it is an exact replica, only without any physical properties.

Then, how do you explain this verse?
Luke 24:39 Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” King James Bible Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I don't know how you interpret all these resurrection verses, but other Baha'is, including Abdul Baha, have committed themselves to believing them to be symbolic... that the true "body" of the resurrected Jesus is his "body of believers". How does any of it make sense if you make it symbolic? How did four different gospel writers come up with the same symbolic story? How did they know it was symbolic but no other followers of Jesus know it?

Or, is the Baha'i explanation/interpretation wrong? 'Cause that's what I think. I don't think it is symbolic at all. I believe that if the resurrection story is not literally true. If the disciples didn't go to the tomb and see it empty. If they never really saw this "flesh and bone" resurrected Jesus. Then, for me, the most likely thing is... that they concocted the whole story. What do you think?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you sure you don't know much about the NT? And, you don't have time to read it... let alone study it? Anyway, this is Revelation 22. For Bible-believing Christians, which you and I are not, it implies Jesus is coming back.

Well, look who showed up to dinner. Take a seat...

For Bible-believing Christians, everything in the Bible means Jesus is coming back even though not once did Jesus ever say He was coming back, and Jesus said He was no more in the world, meaning He was not coming back….

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

Who is the Lamb? For Christians it is Jesus. For Baha'is? What do you think?

4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”
7 “Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”

Who is coming soon? I don't know of anybody that came soon. Baha'is believe Muhammad was the next manifestaton and that wasn't until 600 years later. If this is Baha'u'llah, he didn't come until almost 2000 years later.

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.
9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”
10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

Don't seal these words, because the time is near? What was near? The end times? The return of the Christ Spirit? What?

11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Apparently Jesus is speaking now? How? Through the angel? But anyway, It says "I, Jesus"

17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

I do not know much about the Book of Revelation, but Bahais have interpreted it and there is a book written: Apocalypse Secrets: Baha'i Interpretation of the Book of Revelation

Overall, Baha’i Writings interpret some or all of 64% (258 of 404) of the verses of Revelation. Adding in verses containing John’s internal interpretations raises the total to 72% (291 of 404) of the verses of Revelation. Since each verse may be interpreted a little or a lot, verse-counting is a crude measure of interpretation but is better than none.
http://apocalypsesecrets.com/content/baha'i-writings-interpret-revelation

It says "I am coming soon"? Christians usually say that in God's time a couple thousand years isn't very long, so to God, it is still "soon". For Baha'is, Muhammad came and went, then The Bab, then Baha'u'llah. You believe in 3 "coming soons." But in verse 20 it sounds like whoever this John is that received this prophecy cuts in and says, "Come, Lord Jesus"? Why would he say that? Why would he think that? For Christians, no problem, Jesus is alive and coming back... someday. For Baha'is, how do you explain why the person receiving this vision and prophecy thought it would be Jesus coming back?

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The verse says nothing about the body of Jesus coming back, and that is the crux of this entire issue, isn’t it? The Spirit of Jesus did come back, even though it was not soon after that was written, so we can assume that was just John’s wishful thinking.

 

[Moz]

The Comforter is a title given to a Manifestation of God who brings the Holy Spirit. That is why the following verse says that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jesus was a Manifestation of God who brought the Holy Spirit, so He was a Comforter...
Muhammad was a Manifestation of God who brought the Holy Spirit, so He was a Comforter...
Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God who brought the Holy Spirit, so He was a Comforter...

What Muslims claim has nothing to do with what Muhammad actually said. I do not think that Muhammad ever made the claim in the Qur'an to be "the Comforter" that Jesus was referring to in the NT.

The Comforter that Jesus was referring to in John 14, 15 and 16 was Baha'u'llah, and Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Comforter and the Spirit of truth that Jesus (the Spirit) covenanted with the Christians.

“Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you. Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 63

For Baha'u'llah to say that He was your Lord in no way means that Jesus was not also your Lord, because Baha'u'llah was the return of your Lord Jesus. I do not mean that in the sense of reincarnation; I mean he was the return of the Spirit of Jesus in another body (the return of the Holy Spirit), not the return of the soul of Jesus in another body. Jesus and Baha'u'llah each had their own soul that was unique to them, but they shared the same Holy Spirit of God. In order to understand what I mean by that, it is necessary for me to post the following:

Jesus and Baha’u’llah were humans, just like you and I. They had special powers and capacities, so they were more than ordinary humans; but they were also human. The third station is what differentiates Manifestations of God from all other humans:

“Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated.

The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This also is phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind.

The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 151-152

From: 38: THE THREE STATIONS OF THE DIVINE MANIFESTATIONS

Hi

Wow,. That makes perfect sense if you take it on its own authority i suppose.

Although....... if you were to take any notice of the followers of either Jesus or Muhammad and how they view their faith then it doesn't not work in the slightest.

It seems like you believe the folowers of Jesus and Muhammad completely misunderstood what their masters were telling them. If this is the case then how can i be sure that you guys are not totally misunderstanding your prophet.

Can another prophet arise in the future and claim to a new progression and that you guys just misunderstood what was being taught?

The reason i keep straying into this bahai thing is that i can not for the life of me unerstand why you keep trying to claim solidarity with beleif systems that are obviously contradictory to the bahai message on anything but some feel good wishy washy level. I find this bahai attempt to accomodate other faiths to be a very cynical ploy and just has the smell of opportunism. Just come out and say the the christians and the moslems "got it wrong" and stop trying to show that we are one big family.

What Muslims claim has nothing to do with what Muhammad actually said. I do not think that Muhammad ever made the claim in the Qur'an to be "the Comforter" that Jesus was referring to in the NT

It would take you about 5 minutes to actually find out the moslem view on this and see that you are far from the shore and as you have seen....no christian responding has had any room for the interpretation you propose. How can you claim to be in our club?
Peace.