What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.

[dybmh]

Ok. Here's one...

I find it strange when Christians assume that the Jewish religion begins and ends with The Torah. That's why many Torah Observant Jews spend time learning Mussar and about the Great Tzaddikim in our lineage.

 

[wizanda]

But, since I have.your attention, would u please elaborate on the "unlettered in scripture" comment? You lost me there.

The word Gentiles in ancient times meant those who were uneducated; since the main source of writing was religious texts, people who knew scripture, then had an education.

Therefore when you take into account most people were uncivilized, and uneducated; Moses gave instruction for us to educate humanity.

The Quran expounded on this, that Muhammad was a messenger to the Gentiles, as the Jews had rejected their position as God's ambassadors, and chosen to go against the Bible instead.

In my opinion.

 

[dybmh]

The word Gentiles in ancient times meant those who were uneducated;

Source?

 

[wizanda]

Source?

People think Muhammad couldn't read; as it says he was unlettered in the Quran, which is the same word for Gentile.

Plus if we examine that the Flock is God's People in the Bible, and then the Nations (Gentiles) is used about the uneducated outsiders.

In my opinion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Islam "Allah" means "Lord"

No, it literally means "the god".

From Wiki:
"The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-ilāh, which means "the god", and is related to El and Elah, the Hebrew and Aramaic words for God."

 

[wizanda]

"The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-ilāh, which means "the god", and is related to El and Elah, the Hebrew and Aramaic words for God."

Ala Ilah is the God Most High in Arabic, and when Melchizedek said he worshipped the Source of reality (Genesis 14:18-22), this is El Elyon in Hebrew.

Yahavah Elohim is a Divine Being; which means the Lord of Creation, similar to saying Lord Brahma.

El (H410) and Eloh (H433) are not the same in Hebrew; El is the Source, and Eloh is a Divine Being manifest by the Source...

Therefore Elohim (H430) is plural Divine Beings i.e the Divine Beings/Council.

Islam is correcting we should only worship the Source of reality, not the Beings made by it.

In my opinion.

 

[Deeje]

We give you a dozens of answers a day. So this "no answers" situation is an odd fantasy you've concocted for yourself.

I was after scriptural reasons for your beliefs and practices.....I didn't want excuses for why you 'ignore the camels but strain out the gnats'. You are not helping.

Clearly, you don't.

One of us doesn't. Jesus gave us all the reasons as to why the Jews had lost the plot in his day. For around 300 years they had been without a prophet to correct them....why? because they were incorrigible. When Jesus came he was God's last prophet and was not sent to the Pharisees for obvious reasons. He was sent to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" and from them he gathered his following. He gave them a kindly yoke, not an impossibly heavy one. He saw past their sins and gave them an opportunity to repent, not by punishing them, but by seeing into their hearts and bringing out the best in them. He did not require mindless performance of ritual, but taught honest heartfelt love of God and for his Law. He recommended the simple life, free from the love of wealth and a genuine love for the truth. He taught them to be "peace makers", which means that genuine followers of Christ will not have weapons in their hands, no innocent blood on their conscience, nor will they find themselves allied to nations whose religious practices they abhor.

It's something I infer from how you constantly call Jews lacking common sense, indoctrinated, mindless and making stuff up. And murderers, too.

It is what our scripture tells us about the state of Judaism in the first century....but it goes back further because the scripture Jesus constantly referred to was the one you supposedly follow yourself. Your past as a nation, has a lot to do with your present day existence as a religious body. I don't see that the Jewish mindset has changed at all. If you are happy with that, then that is entirely up to you, but Jesus was sent to rescue those who were downtrodden by their own religious shepherds, not persecuted by the nations who just hate Jews for whatever reason.

It says in Deut. 12:3-4:
"And ye shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and burn their Asherim with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods; and ye shall destroy their name out of that place. Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God."
From this comes the prohibition of erasing God's name.
From that came a custom among some people of a stringency to not write all of God's name - in any language - to be able to erase it, if need be.

I don't think I ever spoke about the erasing of God's name...it was the fact that it is not "mentioned" among those to whom God entrusted it. I am grateful to see it there in the Hebrew text because, if it were erased, none of us would have any idea that God actually had a name....and what his name means for those who cherish it.

I literally do not care what Jesus said about the Pharisees.

Neither did they. And that was the problem. He wasn't their Messiah. That Messiah will never come because he only existed in the minds of the Pharisees. It was a false expectation created by men who wanted the Messiah to praise and elevate them.....Jesus was never going to do that...and he never will.

No, that's not why. The reasons I don't care to listen to the story are: a. I think it's a lie. b. Holier-than-thou Christians at it as usual is sickening. c. This is what's led to centuries of persecution.

Who told you it was a lie? If liars tell you something do you really have reason to believe them? Jesus castigated the Pharisees as being "from their father the devil....the father of the lie". (John 8:44)

It is not a Christian's job to persecute anyone. Fake Christians do that. Genuine Christians are known because they are messengers of peace.....not warmongers or haters. We plead with people of all faiths to listen to Jesus' teachings and to learn from him. We are fast approaching the end of this current world system, and the survivors are those who have put their trust in God's Messiah.

Read your own thread title, which you made: "What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why."

The title was supplied by a Jewish poster word for word.....not my idea but a suggestion that I took them up on. Its been an education to say the least.

No distinction between the various types of Christianity. I do not care about all of your in-fighting. The "no true Christian" argument is a weak argument, considering most denominations accept all or most of the NT to be true in any case.

A bit like the various sects of Judaism perhaps.....all accept the same scripture but follow different levels of practice. Pot...kettle?

It does not say anywhere that laws will be canceled. And where is that law now? You claim it's been written on your hearts, whatever the heck that means. Result? Christians only have one commandment: Loving "god". Technically, anything goes by Christian standards.

The Christian standard is that stated by Jesus who said..."You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

By implementing those two laws it is impossible to break the rest because all of God's laws hinge on those two. To break any of them is to break either one or both of those two. We no longer need a written law because we are governed by our love for God and for our neighbor.

Well, weren't annihilated, so that's something.

Neither are any of the other world religions....what does that prove?

Harel, religious Jew, at your service.

So you are the sum total of the Jewish nation....?

Sooo...it says that Yehu both did good and bad. And your conclusion is: Yehu is 100% evil.
I don't get it.

Does it have to be either extreme. Jehu did what most other Jewish kings did to a greater or lesser degree.....they failed to keep God's laws. Doing good is not compensation for doing bad. You can't play one off against the other to God. Why did God give his people his laws if he did not expect them to be kept?

All things considered, this entire thread is defensive in its nature. You supposedly started this thread to hear the Jewish voice on Christianity. Nothing in the OP about debating and trying to hit back. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. So Jews air out their disagreements and then you people decided to hit back. Well, try to, anyway. Every other Christian post here is: Jews are wrong, Jews are ignorant, Jews are indoctrinated, No true Christian, JWs know best, etc.

You see what I mean? You don't care about the Jewish view of anything. At least be willing to state that.

Since this thread was not my idea, I thought it would be interesting to see what kinds of answers I would receive....I deliberately put it in the debate forum so that answers could be debated. I wanted it to be open to discussion. I wanted to see if the Jewish posters here could defend their beliefs and practices whilst informing us about the reason for their often bizarre practices .....quite frankly it seems as if the Jewish position is to just cling to their beliefs without the need to justify them scripturally; that they are more than happy to just take everything that their sages suggest (even if they disagree among themselves) without contesting them.....but I cannot understand why?
If my brotherhood could not support their teachings scripturally, I could not accept them as truth. But they tick all the boxes for me, and if yours do the same for you then well and good.....we have each made our choice. Isn't that what its all about at the end of the day?

 

[rosends]

A side note: the word "gentile" is not a word of Jewish origin or construction. Jews never called people "Gentiles".
gentile | Origin and meaning of gentile by Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[Rival]

A side note: the word "gentile" is not a word of Jewish origin or construction. Jews never called people "Gentiles".
gentile | Origin and meaning of gentile by Online Etymology Dictionary

I've always hated this word. There must be another word.

 

[Shaul]

Here’s another thing that many Christians do. They will tell a Jew that he must become a Christian because “you can’t work your way to heaven”, or “salvation by works is dead”, or something similar. I understand why they say this. It is a core theology in the New Testament that the basis for the Law is that it is “works”. But it is a false premise. “I’m working my way to heaven” said no Jew ever. Jews don’t follow the Law as a means of getting to heaven. Indeed such a notion has no basis in TaNaKh and if someone suggested it was possible most Jews would be perplexed and think proposing that was meshuganah. The reason Jews follow the Law is simple, HaShem says to do so. It’s pretty straightforward. Then Christians will ask, “Then how do you know you’re going to heaven?” The answer is, the same way as always. We trust HaShem to be merciful. We do this with good reasons actually. He is gracious and merciful to everyone now. There is no reason to expect He will suddenly change. We trust G-d.

 

[dybmh]

People think Muhammad couldn't read; as it says he was unlettered in the Quran, which is the same word for Gentile.

Ah. It comes from the Quran. OK.

 

[dybmh]

I've always hated this word. There must be another word.

I've been using Acharim ( Others ).

 

[CG Didymus]

Here’s another thing that many Christians do. They will tell a Jew that he must become a Christian because “you can’t work your way to heaven”, or “salvation by works is dead”, or something similar. I understand why they say this. It is a core theology in the New Testament that the basis for the Law is that it is “works”. But it is a false premise. “I’m working my way to heaven” said no Jew ever. Jews don’t follow the Law as a means of getting to heaven. Indeed such a notion has no basis in TaNaKh and if someone suggested it was possible most Jews would be perplexed and think proposing that was meshuganah. The reason Jews follow the Law is simple, HaShem says to do so. It’s pretty straightforward. Then Christians will ask, “Then how do you know you’re going to heaven?” The answer is, the same way as always. We trust HaShem to be merciful. We do this with good reasons actually. He is gracious and merciful to everyone now. There is no reason to expect He will suddenly change. We trust G-d.

I'd imagine there's many various beliefs within Judaism, but do Jews have a similar belief like Christians about a heaven, a hell and Satan?

 

[rosends]

I'd imagine there's many various beliefs within Judaism, but do Jews have a similar belief like Christians about a heaven, a hell and Satan?

I can't speak to Christian beliefs, and I know that there is a wide spectrum of ideas within Judaism but I think of it this way:

Heaven -- being close to God (imagine sitting next to the founding fathers and studying the constitution)
Hell -- forced to be separate from God and learn to take responsibility for what was done in life causing one to be separate.
Satan -- a combination undercover police officer and district attorney. He sets up the traps and prosecutes those who fail, all at God's behest.

Yes, overly simplified. But so am I.

 

[CG Didymus]

I can't speak to Christian beliefs, and I know that there is a wide spectrum of ideas within Judaism but I think of it this way:

Heaven -- being close to God (imagine sitting next to the founding fathers and studying the constitution)
Hell -- forced to be separate from God and learn to take responsibility for what was done in life causing one to be separate.
Satan -- a combination undercover police officer and district attorney. He sets up the traps and prosecutes those who fail, all at God's behest.

Yes, overly simplified. But so am I.

That's fine. I already know the Fundie Christian version. Satan rebelled. He's God's enemy. Hell is for him and all who don't accept Jesus as their savior. But from non-Christians I was hearing that Satan/Devil and hell and dying and rising savior Gods are from pagan religions and got added into Judaism but mostly into Christianity.

 

[Harel13]

You are not helping.

Not really trying to help, not anymore, anyway.
See, I've answered just about any question you've asked me, and at first I did it politely. I assumed you were actually interested in the answers. I even started the Shabbat thread for you. But then came the barrage of 'indoctrination accusations'. I haven't seen much real arguments from you, if any. The answer of course will be: Jews are blind, Jews don't understand the Bible, Jews are indoctrinated, Jews make up stuff, Jews can't handle the truth, et cetera, et cetera.
Those are not real answers. That's what you say when you have nothing else to say.

I believe I'll leave this thread, but before I do, I'll leave you with what I got out of this thread:

a. If Jesus was at any time any sort of deity, he'd have been the god of anarchy. Jesus, who claimed it's important to keep the Torah, didn't do much to actually keep it, and Christians are totally fine with that. You can be a lawbreaker if you feel like it. If you're "the messiah". Right. Where is that written? Only in the ""New"" Testament. Christians, and you in particular, enjoy pointing out the basis for the NT from the verse of writing a new covenant on the hearts. Problem is, you and they choose to ignore two things: 1. It does not say that the old covenant will be nullified. 2. It does not say that there won't be any laws in the new covenant. Rather, it says that the new covenant will be embedded in the people in the way that it would make transgression irrelevant.
b. All Jews are Christ-killers according to JWs. For all the faults other denominations find in Catholics, at least Catholics are over that part.
c. You don't know much Hebrew, Deeje, and as such, choose to assume what you wish about the meaning of different Hebrew words in the Bible, automatically canceling any Jewish argument, making discussions and debates pointless. But you're not alone. You've got many other Christians with you on that point.​

Final thought: You asked, where does it say that being stiff-necked is a good thing?
Exod. 34:9:

"And he [Moses] said: 'If now I have found grace in Thy sight, O Lord, let the Lord, I pray Thee, go in the midst of us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for Thine inheritance.'​

How does Moses convince God to continue going in the midst of the Nation of Israel? He says God should go because Israel are a stiff-necked people. The up-side of being stiff-necked is hanging on to your beliefs no matter what.
Say what you want about Jews and Judaism, but the fact of the matter is, that we're still here. Still thriving. Still going strong. We have our own country now. Christianity tried to destroy us and has failed miserably.

 

[dybmh]

@Deeje,

I second @Harel13's recent post. What's missing from your posts in this thread, IMHO, is empathy. It seems like your desire is to criticize, not for understanding at all.

I'm starting to wonder if criticizing Jews and Judaism is part of your religious belief.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Though I am not Jewish in any way shape of form, I can not help but wonder how some Christian denominations complain about how the Book of Mormon should be discounted because it is not in the Bible, but have no problem with the New Testament being tagged onto the Old Testament

The Old Testament itself told about a New Covenant to come. The New Testament has fulfillment of things foretold in the Old Testament.

 

[rosends]

The Old Testament itself told about a New Covenant to come. The New Testament has fulfillment of things foretold in the Old Testament.

Well, according to the "New Testament" at least...

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Well, according to the "New Testament" at least...

And according to Jeremiah 31:31-32