What do Atheists Want?

[questfortruth]

I can only speak as a theist. What do Atheist think?

Is it determined that they think? No. There is nothing certain about them. They are named in Bible by God as total mystery.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Technically, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, while an agnostic is someone who doesn't believe it's possible to know for sure that a god exists.

Yes, it's possible to be both. But I wouldn't say "most".

And most of those agnostics do not believe in a god. And since you had to ask such an obvious question, or it is at least obvious to atheists, you are not in much of a position to judge whether it is most or not. It is a rather small percentage of atheists that are hard atheists. That means not only do they not believe in a god. They believe that no god or gods can exist.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Righteous Judge? Is that what a God does that allows children to be born with fatal genetic defects? Children diagnosed with cancer before kindergarten suggests God is righteous to you?

What would you ask God if you had the chance? Would it be why the innocent suffer and die due to natural causes? That would be my question.

My option is that a God doesn't exist, or it exists but behaves as if it doesn't.

I believe a Righteous judge makes any defect or evil right again. Eternal life of happiness and joy is more than enough compensation for a relatively brief moment of pain and unfairness would you agree? If someone broke your back from drunk driving, what would you expect a good judge to do? On earth, we cannot expect them to heal your spine, but we can expect them to make judgement for compensation for the malcontent done upon you. A righteous Judge takes it one step further and promises that if you obey the law yourself you will not only have compensation but restitution of your maladies. That is the type of God I believe in..

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Ask us. For me it is entertaining, and I learn what theists believe and why they believe. Theists heavily influence American politics and this interaction gives me insight into how these folks think and behave.

It is entertaining for me to, but I can watch YouTube for that and be completely satisfied. To immerse yourself in religious topics is another level entirely.

 

[The Hammer]

And most of those agnostics do not believe in a god. And since you had to ask such an obvious question, or it is at least obvious to atheists, you are not in much of a position to judge whether it is most or not. It is a rather small percentage of atheists that are hard atheists. That means not only do they not believe in a god. They believe that no god or gods can exist.

Either way.

I still don't think it should matter to anyone who isn't religiously inclined to be discussing religion unless it's some academic endeavor.

If you lack theism. Why discuss it? I don't come on asking a bunch of questions to atheists (except in this thread). Prove this prove that.... Who gives a ****?

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

We don't live forever, flawed question.

Read the question again and make sure you don't leave out the word 'want' this time.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Oddly it is Christians who think they will live forever, and atheists accept their mortality

Not just Christians. Every Theist believes in forever life in some shape or form.

 

[Ludi]

Just for the record, God did not create death, the 'self' did, right after going into 'words' or INTO the tree of knowledge of good and bad. As the 'self' attached 'itself' to something that is going to die, the clay of the earth, or what we like to call the flesh. Which is also why Jesus said, it is the spirit that gives life, with the flesh being of no avail. And someone saying, 'I am going to die,' or words connected together IN self, and a concept created BY self. With 'self' perpetuating this concept since the beginning. And not one human being since the beginning was born with a concept of death, God's creation. It was always 'self,' taking it upon 'itself,' to teach children how to go into 'self,' thus dooming them to the concept of death. With this first death having no meaning at all. This one is on us.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Is it determined that they think? No. There is nothing certain about them. They are named in Bible by God as total mystery.

To me, atheism is no mystery. It is the product of our times. To me, it is the result of having explored all you possibly could or wanted to and have achieved little to no result and therefore created a premature self conclusion. I expect atheism to be a very dominant religion/movement before Christ comes again. So it has been during most biblical calamity.

 

[blü 2]

He will hear out your side to the sentencing and based on whether He feels you have had sufficient evidence or not will judge you as fairly as possible, better so, than any person could fathom in today's judicial systems.

What exactly would I be on trial, subject to judgment, for?

If God is all-powerful, then everything that is, everything that ever happens, only happens according to [his] will. When you're all-powerful, ALL the bucks stop at your desk. No one else has responsibility, no one else CAN have responsibility.

So is that what Atheists want? Why do they even join this Religious Forum I wonder?

My earlier >answer to that question< needs no amendment.

Do they want to live forever being right? Or do they want to live forever feeling wronged?

I'm technically an igtheist, not an atheist, but either way I'm an unbeliever. However, my view of my own death is well expressed in the Tanakh:

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward; but the memory of them is lost.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.​

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Just for the record, God did not create death, the 'self' did, right after going into 'words' or INTO the tree of knowledge of good and bad. As the 'self' attached 'itself' to something that is going to die, the clay of the earth, or what we like to call the flesh. Which is also why Jesus said, it is the spirit that gives life, with the flesh being of no avail. And someone saying, 'I am going to die,' or words connected together IN self, and a concept created BY self. With 'self' perpetuating this concept since the beginning. And not one human being since the beginning was born with a concept of death, God's creation. It was always 'self,' taking it upon 'itself,' to teach children how to go into 'self,' thus dooming them to the concept of death. With this first death having no meaning at all. This one is on us.

Interesting. I believe that death really is the greatest illusion created by mankind. Death being neither good nor bad rather just 'is'. You can either accept Eternal Life or accept Death. Death is just a commonality of life and therefore objectively true. Eternal Life is an ambiguous concept that consist of mans desire to not remain dead forever. Which was first? That which is first has to be more true correct?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Either way.

I still don't think it should matter to anyone who isn't religiously inclined to be discussing religion unless it's some academic endeavor.

If you lack theism. Why discuss it? I don't come on asking a bunch of questions to atheists (except in this thread). Prove this prove that.... Who gives a ****?

Then your theism might be rather shallow. Most Christians do not know how to properly test the Bible to see which parts are definitely false.

 

[The Hammer]

Then your theism might be rather shallow.

I wouldn't call it shallow myself. Although, deep doesn't seem appropriate either. Nevertheless.

 

[Ella S.]

As an atheist, I want health, long-lasting beauty, and to contribute more to society than I take.

I can imagine that to the Atheist, whether God exists or not, the mere reasoning behind the way He does things wouldn't be something they could worship or admire. I could see an Atheists conversation with God after death be something like this: "Could you blame me? You had built a world that had so much evil and death inside it, when you could have made it like _________.

I used to be a pretty devout worshiper of God until I stopped believing in his existence.

I believe in a God that does reason with people. We give him the title of Righteous Judge for a reason. He will hear out your side to the sentencing and based on whether He feels you have had sufficient evidence or not will judge you as fairly as possible, better so, than any person could fathom in today's judicial systems.

And I don't think God is going to judge anyone.

So is that what Atheists want? Why do they even join this Religious Forum I wonder? Do they want to live forever being right? Or do they want to live forever feeling wronged?

I'm mostly here to practice philosophical logic, that is, the logic behind philosophical argument. I have enough practice with formal logic, epistemic logic, and computational logic elsewhere. If along that way I end up discovering good evidence for the existence of a deity then I'll convert back to theism. Logic is what brought me out of it and logic is what will bring me back to it, if I ever do go back.

The truth is, whether you believe in God or not, you will die. I'm sorry for the spoiler alert to some of you. When that happens, will Atheists and Theists get what they want? I can only speak as a theist. What do Atheist think?

After 2 hours of total brain death, all neurological functions have irreversibly ceased. Along with these functions include our metacognition, which is responsible for our self-awareness and our ability to have an inner monologue, as well as our wakefulness, which is responsible for our awareness of our own senses.

In fact, all of the nerves that send signals like touch, sight, sound, taste, and so on will decay. So will the parts of our brain responsible for dreaming, such as the pineal gland and the hippocampus.

Luckily, by the time this decay starts, our consciousness will have longed ceased, similar to a dreamless sleep. In a metaphorical sense, we would be entering the most peaceful rest that could ever be experienced knowing that the loved ones we lost are enjoying the same slumber with us now.

In a more literal sense, "we" would no longer exist.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

What exactly would I be on trial, subject to judgment, for?

If God is all-powerful, then everything that is, everything that ever happens, only happens according to [his] will. When you're all-powerful, ALL the bucks stop at your desk. No one else has responsibility, no one else CAN have responsibility.

You asked a very important question. I don't know if you intend for an answer, but perhaps a thought would suffice. I know where your question comes from and it the same one that is asked of many Christian Sects who think they have an answer but really don't. Judgement is a thing. For this to be true, God chooses not to be as powerful or omniscient as people want Him to be and the proof of that is in Jesus Christ's incarnation. If we are to accept God as only fully Omnipotent and only fully Omniscient than we have created a hypothetical paradox in our minds that won't be resolved until we allow two biblical truths into our minds. 1. He cannot know exactly what your outcome will be since or before you were conceived. (No predestination) 2. He cannot force you to do anything outside your own agency. If you think about it, they are really one in the same conceptually. If he knew exactly what you would do than to him judgement has already been sentenced since you cried your first cry. If he altered your agency in any way, than he would have been responsible for your entire life and would then lie about being a God who is perfect. Omniscience and Omnipotence are still very applicable attributes to God, however they are used only for us to know that at any time He has the choice to prove it or not and therefore cease to be God. We have to only believe theoretically he is Omniscient and Omnipotent, when in reality we are the masters of our destiny and captains of our fates. We determine through agency whether we will choose endless torment of not knowing who God is, or the Eternal Life of being with him constantly to know him on a personal level forever.

 

[Ella S.]

As a non believer, why does it matter if they exist or not. If you don't believe either way?

If your willing to look at or hear evidence, you're agnostic.

You essentially just said "Anyone who is rational is, by definition, an agnostic."

I think that's fascinating. I've seen theists chuck atheists under the bus and atheists chuck theists under the bus. I think this is the first time that I've seen an agnostic chuck them both under the bus.

In reality, one can hold a position and still be willing to change it, but the popular usage of atheist isn't even referring to a specific claim. It just refers to people who are without theism.

In fact, a rational agent would believe in things that are justified to believe in, even if those things are false, and be willing to change their beliefs in accordance with new data. This is how Bayesian epistemology works, which is a major influence on how many scientific papers analyze their data.

 

[firedragon]

I have been thinking lately about the collective responses that I receive from those who reject the God narratives.

I will be the first to concede any debate against my Atheist friends as their grasp to reality is what keeps them grounded and their attention to humanly influence and scientific evidences are crucial to holding less to fantasy and more to the world and the physicality around them. Who can blame a person that would rather devote their life to science books than fantasy? Aren't their interests just as valid?

I can imagine that to the Atheist, whether God exists or not, the mere reasoning behind the way He does things wouldn't be something they could worship or admire. I could see an Atheists conversation with God after death be something like this: "Could you blame me? You had built a world that had so much evil and death inside it, when you could have made it like _________.

I am sure Atheist would love to have a conversation with God. To hear his response to their complaints about what happened and why they happened that way. Heck, I think Theists would eavesdrop in as well to that dialogue.

I believe in a God that does reason with people. We give him the title of Righteous Judge for a reason. He will hear out your side to the sentencing and based on whether He feels you have had sufficient evidence or not will judge you as fairly as possible, better so, than any person could fathom in today's judicial systems.

So is that what Atheists want? Why do they even join this Religious Forum I wonder? Do they want to live forever being right? Or do they want to live forever feeling wronged?

The truth is, whether you believe in God or not, you will die. I'm sorry for the spoiler alert to some of you. When that happens, will Atheists and Theists get what they want? I can only speak as a theist. What do Atheist think?

Throughout my life, my anecdotal experience is most of the atheists don't give a damn about religion or atheism. They just wish to live their life peacefully, the way they want, without anyone telling them what to do. They don't want to have conversations with God or any tom, dick or harry about these matters.

Only a few have these conversations. Just like in any religious group. What happens is, the few who make a lot of noise are thought to be representative of the whole, which is a fallacy of composition. We all do this.

 

[ppp]

I have been thinking lately about the collective responses that I receive from those who reject the God narratives.

I will be the first to concede any debate against my Atheist friends as their grasp to reality is what keeps them grounded and their attention to humanly influence and scientific evidences are crucial to holding less to fantasy and more to the world and the physicality around them. Who can blame a person that would rather devote their life to science books than fantasy? Aren't their interests just as valid?

I can imagine that to the Atheist, whether God exists or not, the mere reasoning behind the way He does things wouldn't be something they could worship or admire. I could see an Atheists conversation with God after death be something like this: "Could you blame me? You had built a world that had so much evil and death inside it, when you could have made it like _________.

I am sure Atheist would love to have a conversation with God. To hear his response to their complaints about what happened and why they happened that way. Heck, I think Theists would eavesdrop in as well to that dialogue.

I believe in a God that does reason with people. We give him the title of Righteous Judge for a reason. He will hear out your side to the sentencing and based on whether He feels you have had sufficient evidence or not will judge you as fairly as possible, better so, than any person could fathom in today's judicial systems.

So is that what Atheists want? Why do they even join this Religious Forum I wonder? Do they want to live forever being right? Or do they want to live forever feeling wronged?

The truth is, whether you believe in God or not, you will die. I'm sorry for the spoiler alert to some of you. When that happens, will Atheists and Theists get what they want? I can only speak as a theist. What do Atheist think?

You may have heard the story of the Caesars going on chariot rides around the city of Rome, receiving adulation, while a slave stands behind them whispering, You are mortal. You are mortal. into his ear over and over again. This is some what similar.

for the better part of two millennia Christians have been in a place of authority where they tell one another stories about non Christians through which they give themselves license to demonize, shun, imprison, torture, and kill those who do not share their beliefs with a sense of righteous impunity. And because of their strength in the population, and their sense of a divine mission, they are difficult to stop. While the situation is better than it was 50 years ago, this is by no means a thing of the past.

It is in my best interest, and IMHO, the best interest of our society, to remind Christians that the stories humblebrag to one another about their own moral rectitude, and the slavering depravity of non-Christians is, to be frank, an ongoing session of mutual ego masturbation. I saw it in youth and adult church groups when I was a Christian, and while it has eased over the decades in some denominations, such behavior is still prevalent enough to be an issue.

It is also in my interest (and the interest of my progeny) to track the current apologetics that infest our educational and and government systems. From the depraved indifference of Christians throughout the AIDS crisis to the attempts to insert their religion into science classrooms, to their attempts to override medical decisions with religious dogma.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

As an atheist, I want health, long-lasting beauty, and to contribute more to society than I take

These are wonderful things. Are you consciously aware that none of these things are permanent? You will get old and possibly sick, you won't be beautiful and the only practical contribution society will remember will eventually ripple away no matter how influential you become. Are you satisfied that you will not get what you want? I don't mean to be rude, but are you satisfied with your life being compared to a teetsy fly who only value is to reproduce just so their kids could live another day longer than them. Do you really get what you want from that life? Is it logical for the teetsy fly to continue its existence? Should it not go extinct?

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Throughout my life, my anecdotal experience is most of the atheists don't give a damn about religion or atheism. They just wish to live their life peacefully, the way they want, without anyone telling them what to do. They don't want to have conversations with God or any tom, dick or harry about these matters.

Only a few have these conversations. Just like in any religious group. What happens is, the few who make a lot of noise are thought to be representative of the whole, which is a fallacy of composition. We all do this.

If you want a peaceful life and life how you want, what persuaded atheists to come to this forum that is full of everyone and anyone arguing and questioning about religion. If religion is the problem, why put a flame to it, there are much more controversial events on the news today, what peaceful life do you hope here?