Were Founding Fathers Diests?

[MasonicLodge]

The answer is absolutely no.

John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison are the "Founding Fathers", they wrote the US Constitution, and they were all Christians, James Madison argued that it was the duty of the States but not the Federal Government, to encourage morality, and spirituality and religiousity.

Now if we want to expand our definition to mean any of the major players of the Revolutionary War...the Answer is still no but a little more vague.

We know that Thomas Jefferson was virtually a diest, but whether or not he rejected the divine providence of God, or just the dogma of Christianity is not fully certain, it's pretty well assured that he still believed in the divine providence of God and therefore was not a Diest.

Benjamin Franklin certainly wasn't, and in his epitaph referred to God as his author.

George Washington was the leader of a Parish of the Episcopalian faith.

In truth, you cannot find one single person invovled in the founding of the United States that was a "Diest" or at least a professed Diest...you can certainly find people opposed to various aspects of Christianity but that doesn't mean they are Diests or even non-Christian, many Christians are famous for criticizing aspects of Christianity...

No one would argue that Calvin was not a Christian...or Martin Luther.

So bottom line...the Founding Fathers were Christians. This only makes sense considering the fact that the United States was extremely religious during the Revoultionary war...the fact that the first act of establishing the Continental Army by the Congress was to establish the pay for Chaplains in the military should be evidendce of religiosity...

Not to mention the first act of Congress as a new nation was to determine that Christianity should be brought to the "Native Americans".

 

[Sunstone]

Welcome to the Forum!

Not to mention the first act of Congress as a new nation was to determine that Christianity should be brought to the "Native Americans".

Wasn't that because we wanted to destroy them?

 

[blackout]

Hey there Masonic Lodge.

I have seen lists in the pasts that show a significant number of founding fathers and presidents as Freemasons.
Would you care to elaborate on this? In your opinion did this effect their religious beliefs?

 

[MasonicLodge]

Regarding Freemasonry and Founding Fathers (again using the term loosely to mean any significant figure in the Revolutionary War) it had two effects...both easily misunderstood.

First; it is a way for people to approach Christianity differently than merely through Church, often which is focused on dogma or doctrine and less on being Christian...while Freemasonry eliminates a need to be "Christian" altogether, which could have several origins to that belief - or could have merely been the result of British experience with non-Christians, and feeling a desire to meet and be Christian around these non-Christians...to act like but not discuss Christianity.

The lack of discussion of Religion or Politics became apart of the Masonic Constitutions as a result of the Civil War in Great Britain so it's not necessarily that there isn't a "religious" purpose to the fraternity, but that political necessity negated it to a large extent.

The second aspect is that Freemasonry rarely has its own impact upon a person, it brings little to the table that you yourself do not bring, and because of this Freemasonry itself may be a way for people to relate to one another even more, but it is not itself strong enough to forge ideas, or create actions that themselves are not already created by another force (like religion) and acted upon by the person's own devotion to those ideas.

Materially, not very many founders were Freemasons...just a good amount of key Generals and senior officers of the military (since Masonry was a fad in the British military at the time that made sense) and then a few good socialites.

Others are stated to be made masons without proof...such as Jefferson (who did attend a lodge once or twice as a guest)...

 

[MasonicLodge]

Welcome to the Forum!



Wasn't that because we wanted to destroy them?

In the late 1700s the Congress hardly believed it had the physical power to destroy Native Americans, but it was because of their sense of Christian duty to bring Christ to the savages. It was a long-held European view that continued until eventually the US has more or less eliminated the society of "Native Americans" (using society as defined by Arnold Toynbee).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We know that Thomas Jefferson was virtually a diest, but whether or not he rejected the divine providence of God, or just the dogma of Christianity is not fully certain, it's pretty well assured that he still believed in the divine providence of God and therefore was not a Diest.

Benjamin Franklin certainly wasn't, and in his epitaph referred to God as his author.

George Washington was the leader of a Parish of the Episcopalian faith.

Thomas Jefferson was definitly not a Christian. He was strongly against Christianity.

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

Benjamin Franklin used to hang out with a group of Satanist called the Hellfire Club.

"I cannot convieve otherwise than that He, the infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitly above it."
-Articles of Beliefe and Acts of Religion

As far as George Washington goes, it was wrote by an associate of a Presbytarian minister who personally knew Washington "...that while Washington was very deferential to religion and it's ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Diest."

And lets not forget about Thomas Paine, a man so important, that without him, there probably would not have been a war. Paine was STRONGLY outspoken against Christianity, and all other organized religion.

And to sum up the Constitution's view "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...." And the Declaration of Independance clearly states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...."
I find no mentioning of "God" or "Jesus" or even "Jehova." Just a Creator, which is what most of the Founding Fathers believed. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In the late 1700s the Congress hardly believed it had the physical power to destroy Native Americans, but it was because of their sense of Christian duty to bring Christ to the savages.

The right to life, liberty, and the persuit of property is how it originally went. Congress knew it could kill off Native Americans, because it was sometimes ordered.

 

[MissAnneThrope]

I hear this argument a lot.

Some of the most brilliant men that played a big part in the creation of the United States were Christians.

My question is; What of it?

 

[MasonicLodge]

The right to life, liberty, and the persuit of property is how it originally went. Congress knew it could kill off Native Americans, because it was sometimes ordered.

Really? I could have sworn that the "Right to Life Liberty and Property" was never in the Articles of Confederation...let alone enacted in a "Bill" or "Law".

Congress never knew they could kill off Native Americans because during the Revolutionary War the Iroqouis tribe warred along the side of the British, because in 1800 the United States consisted of territory mostly west of the Appalachians and the other mountain belts in the New England area.

The rest of what you posted is just about as much historical rubbish as this.

 

[MasonicLodge]

People who bother me are people who point to a man's single actions as representation of his life.

C.S. Lewis was once an Atheist...I can point to all his extremely ignorant Atheistic garbage from his life till I'm blue in the face, doesn't change the fact he was a devout Christian.

The United States was created by the Western Civilization, which ought to be called the Christian Civilization, as the Han Civilization is Confucian, the Japanese is Shinto-Buddhist, the Indian is Hindu with Islamic invasive history, Islamic, and etc.

That's "what of it".

It's pathetic to see non-religious people attempt to portray the United States as born in the same religious vaccuum they themselves put themselves into.

 

[BucephalusBB]

........It's pathetic to see non-religious people attempt to portray the United States as born in the same religious vaccuum they themselves put themselves into.

It's pathetic for everyone to reflect the religion of some people a long time ago to nowadays freedom. religious or non-religious.

 

[McBell]

It's pathetic to see non-religious people attempt to portray the United States as born in the same religious vaccuum they themselves put themselves into.

Is it not just as pathetic for you to try and portray the United States as born in the same fanatical version of the religion that you put yourself in?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's pathetic to see non-religious people attempt to portray the United States as born in the same religious vaccuum they themselves put themselves into.

I think it's more pathetic that people attempt to rewrite history and make up 'facts' just so they can create thier own artificial world.

Actually, Benjamin Franklin did propose that each day begin with prayer, before business started to form a new nation. That propasal was never even voted on, and due to the lack of interest, it was never brought up again.

 

[Father Heathen]

Is America a Christian Nation?

 

[MfThinker]

Funny, Benjamin Franklin considered himself a Diest and said so in his own autobiography (1771).

 

[Desert Snake]

Deism doesn't mean without morality, I really don't understand this thread, regardless of the arguments.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I hear this argument a lot.

Some of the most brilliant men that played a big part in the creation of the United States were Christians.

My question is; What of it?

:clap

(Have you seen Molière's play?)