We the People: No Voice

[The Hammer]

"These results suggest that reality is best captured by mixed theories in which both individual economic elites and organized interest groups (including corporations, largely owned and controlled by wealthy elites) play a substantial part in affecting public policy, but the general public has little or no independent influence."

The people/voters do not actually choose or direct public policy in any useful fashion. We the People have no voice!

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens | Perspectives on Politics | Cambridge Core

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens - Volume 12 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

 

[Wu Wei]

We the people are currently so divided along so many different lines, with so many different agendas, the voice is not loud enough to be heard or matter much.

 

[The Hammer]

We the people are currently so divided along so many different lines, with so many different agendas, the voice is not loud enough to be heard or matter much.

You're not wrong. That's by design.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This is one of the main reasons I don't identify with liberalism. Such excessive concentration of wealth, which inevitably results from lax market regulation and inappropriately low taxing, is inherently antithetical to democracy. The only way a reasonably free market can coexist with genuine democracy is if the market is sufficiently regulated and the political influence of the wealthiest segments of society is kept at bay through regulations, such as caps on "political donations" (a phrase that, in many cases, is merely a euphemism for bribes).

 

[The Hammer]

liberalism

The problem is neoliberal economic thought, not liberal social thought though.

"neoliberalism is often associated with policies of economic liberalization, including privatization, deregulation, globalization, free trade, monetarism, austerity, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[25][26][27][28][29] The neoliberal project is also focused on designing institutions and is political in character rather than only economic.[30][31][32][33]"

 

[Debater Slayer]

The problem is neoliberal economic thought, not liberal social thought though.

"neoliberalism is often associated with policies of economic liberalization, including privatization, deregulation, globalization, free trade, monetarism, austerity, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[25][26][27][28][29] The neoliberal project is also focused on designing institutions and is political in character rather than only economic.[30][31][32][33]"

I completely agree. I'm socially liberal; I was referring to the political ideology of liberalism, specifically its emphasis on "free-market capitalism" (another phrase I find to be oxymoronic for various reasons, but that's for another thread).

 

[PureX]

"These results suggest that reality is best captured by mixed theories in which both individual economic elites and organized interest groups (including corporations, largely owned and controlled by wealthy elites) play a substantial part in affecting public policy, but the general public has little or no independent influence."

The people/voters do not actually choose or direct public policy in any useful fashion. We the People have no voice!

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens | Perspectives on Politics | Cambridge Core

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens - Volume 12 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

This has been proven to be true in the United States for many decades, now.

 

[Viker]

We the people are currently so divided along so many different lines, with so many different agendas, the voice is not loud enough to be heard or matter much.

Conquer and divide. It's worked for thousands of years.

 

[PureX]

We the people are currently so divided along so many different lines, with so many different agendas, the voice is not loud enough to be heard or matter much.

Actually, the voice of the people shouting "stop the corruption" has been going on for a long time. But that's the one thing the politicians cannot and will not do. The corruption is why they are in politics to begin with. Riding the taxpayer gravy train is the whole reason they went into politics, and is the whole reason they remain in politics for as long as they possibly can. And it's the reason they will do and say and promise anything to anyone to get re-elected, but once they get re-elected it's all ignored, and the policy-in-exchange-for-bribery window is wide open, again.

 

[Wu Wei]

You're not wrong. That's by design.

Conquer and divide. It's worked for thousands of years.

Agreed

 

[Heyo]

"These results suggest that reality is best captured by mixed theories in which both individual economic elites and organized interest groups (including corporations, largely owned and controlled by wealthy elites) play a substantial part in affecting public policy, but the general public has little or no independent influence."

The people/voters do not actually choose or direct public policy in any useful fashion. We the People have no voice!

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens | Perspectives on Politics | Cambridge Core

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens - Volume 12 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

Published online by Cambridge University Press: 18 September 2014

I've cited that study multiple times, especially the figures in the "Tests of Influence" part.
It didn't change the opinions of the libertarians.

 

[We Never Know]

We the people are currently so divided along so many different lines, with so many different agendas, the voice is not loud enough to be heard or matter much.

Its easier to control smaller groups. Divided people are smaller groups than united people.

 

[Valjean]

This is one of the main reasons I don't identify with liberalism. Such excessive concentration of wealth, which inevitably results from lax market regulation and inappropriately low taxing, is inherently antithetical to democracy. The only way a reasonably free market can coexist with genuine democracy is if the market is sufficiently regulated and the political influence of the wealthiest segments of society is kept at bay through regulations, such as caps on "political donations" (a phrase that, in many cases, is merely a euphemism for bribes).

There's classical liberalism, popular, "American style" liberalism; and neoliberalism.
Not the same things.

 

[Valjean]

The people/voters do not actually choose or direct public policy in any useful fashion. We the People have no voice!

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens | Perspectives on Politics | Cambridge Core

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens - Volume 12 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

Study: Congress literally doesn’t care what you think

I had no idea how bad things actually were until I saw one simple graph.

act.represent.us

 

[Pogo]

"These results suggest that reality is best captured by mixed theories in which both individual economic elites and organized interest groups (including corporations, largely owned and controlled by wealthy elites) play a substantial part in affecting public policy, but the general public has little or no independent influence."

The people/voters do not actually choose or direct public policy in any useful fashion. We the People have no voice!

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens | Perspectives on Politics | Cambridge Core

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens - Volume 12 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

Unfortunately that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[The Hammer]

Study: Congress literally doesn’t care what you think

I had no idea how bad things actually were until I saw one simple graph.

act.represent.us

This was the video I was looking for to show @Revoltingest . Found the research I posted instead. Good find!

 

[The Hammer]

Unfortunately that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I disagree.

But feel free to give up as much autonomy and ability to decide as you want.

 

[Valjean]

This was the video I was looking for to show @Revoltingest . Found the research I posted instead. Good find!

He's already seen it, or similar summaries I've posted over the years.
I don't think he's convinced....

 

[The Hammer]

He's already seen it, or similar summaries I've posted over the years.
I don't think he's convinced....

That's unfortunate

 

[Spice]

Actually, the voice of the people shouting "stop the corruption" has been going on for a long time. But that's the one thing the politicians cannot and will not do. The corruption is why they are in politics to begin with. Riding the taxpayer gravy train is the whole reason they went into politics, and is the whole reason they remain in politics for as long as they possibly can. And it's the reason they will do and say and promise anything to anyone to get re-elected, but once they get re-elected it's all ignored, and the policy-in-exchange-for-bribery window is wide open, again.

A few years ago I would have disagreed with you here. But watching the GOP running for the hills of retirement or private sector has turned the tide of my thoughts that there are people who serve this nation in politics for the benefit of the people. And I absolutely hated seeing Democrat AL Franken quietly resign for the misfortune of a juvenile photo from his previous life in comedy.