Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[savagewind]

I am not actually saying that I believe The Bible says people who are considered bad spoil people who are considered good though I do take 1 Cor 15:33 to heart but it means something different. Something that the Jehovah's Witnesses actually do and are taught to do. It is because the governing body does not know what 1 Cor 15:33 means that I am very sure even at the pain of torture that they are NOT who Jehovah's Witnesses think they are.

 

[lockyfan]

2 Cor 11: 12But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

If I sent them a question about 2 Cor 11 "how are you sure you are not Satan's deception?" would they answer it do you think? I am sure they would not. I think they might send the elders here to have a talk with me. If I wouldn't retract my accusation, they would disfellowship me. Oh yes! I am still a Jehovah's Witness. Amazing, is it not?

So what gives you the idea they are wrong?
The elders would be sent around help you to see the answer to your question.
If you dont want to listen then thats your choice.
Why would you want to not get disfellowshipped if you are so unhappy?

I wonder how may other Jehovah's Witness people know about governing body deception but are still in your midsts? Isn't The Bible warning applicable with situations as this is? "Bad associations spoil useful habits". How do think the governing body plan to get rid of all the bad associations? They must. Do they not?

2 timothy 2:20 speaks about vessels for honorable and dishonorable use.mot to mention at romans 9:20-21 in which we see Jehovah is someone who allows those vessels for a dishonorable use to be in the congregation until such time as they are shown to not be changing their ways.

Therefore anyone who is a bad association for you can be ok for someone else, but you need to avoid them, or, they are being given a second chance and if they dont change then they are removed completely from the congregation.

 

[savagewind]

So what gives you the idea they are wrong?
The elders would be sent around help you to see the answer to your question.
If you dont want to listen then thats your choice.
Why would you want to not get disfellowshipped if you are so unhappy?

I think it is unfair to call me unhappy. Not liking the governing body does not mean unhappy like they say it does.

2 timothy 2:20 speaks about vessels for honorable and dishonorable use.mot to mention at romans 9:20-21 in which we see Jehovah is someone who allows those vessels for a dishonorable use to be in the congregation until such time as they are shown to not be changing their ways.

Therefore anyone who is a bad association for you can be ok for someone else, but you need to avoid them, or, they are being given a second chance and if they dont change then they are removed completely from the congregation.

Please do not wonder any more why I left. It is so obvious only the dead can't see it.

If I thought you might read to understand I'd make a post again why I am certain the governing body are not who they say they are but I am certain explaining is a waste of time with some people.

 

[Unification]

I think it is unfair to call me unhappy. Not liking the governing body does not mean unhappy like they say it does.




Please do not wonder any more why I left. It is so obvious only the dead can't see it.

If I thought you might read to understand I'd make a post again why I am certain the governing body are not who they say they are but I am certain explaining is a waste of time with some people.

Let mankind be in subjection to the corporate jurisdiction of mankind. It's very joyous to see one of God's children break free from the yoke of mankind. I'm sure this wasn't easy for you, and many blessings to you and your loved ones as you seek in truth and Spirit.

 

[Unification]

Prediction and foretelling are not the basic thought behind the Hebrew na-va' and the Greek pro-phe-teu'o translated into English as prophesy. When Ezekiel was told to 'prophesy to the wind' he simply expressed God's command to the wind. (Eze 37:9,10). So at it's very basic meaning it means to 'tell forth' God's mind on matters. Because of this, we (Jehovah's Witnesses) are rightly all prophets, not just a few. We all have the commission to preach the 'good news of the kingdom." (Mt 24:14; Mt 28:19,20) Still we do not say anything new, in the sense that we do not produce any newly inspired writings. We are convinced that the 66 books of the Bible are the last of the inspired writings until after Armageddon when the new "scrolls" will be opened. (Re 20:12)

Our authority is the Bible and the Bible only. And it is our understanding of it that grows and changes as we get deeper and deeper into "the time of the end." (Da 12:4) Because our understanding gets deeper sometimes we have to reevaluate what we once thought was true. Regardless we keep doing what our Master (Jesus) directed: Keep the focus on God's Kingdom. Teach people how to be good citizens of it.

There have been many refinements over the years. But certain core beliefs have been very stable since the very beginning of our modern day development. One of @katiemygirl's primary complaints is that we do refine our beliefs. She takes it as a sign that we are, or our organization is ran by, false prophets. I disagree. To me it is a sign of humility that we can eat our words without giving out when our understanding is corrected by Jehovah. We adjust. We adapt. It does not seem like it so much on the forum, but that is because we have left behind many of the teachings brought up on this forum a very very long time ago, with no evidence that convinces us that we were wrong to do so.

Kate is still trying, and I do admire her effort, to demonstrate that we were mistaken. We may not agree on these matters, but she does have a zeal that Paul had.

Kolibri-bible-created God
Child of God-Christ-God

The bible itself states that all authority and final authority is given to the Son, the only access to know God is "through" and "in" the Son.... The bible is not the Son. You've replaced all truth and spirit with vanity.

 

[savagewind]

Let mankind be in subjection to the corporate jurisdiction of mankind.

What does this mean please?

It's very joyous to see one of God's children break free from the yoke of mankind. I'm sure this wasn't easy for you, and many blessings to you and your loved ones as you seek in truth and Spirit.

Thank you.

 

[Unification]

What does this mean please?

Thank you.

Be in subjection and led by the Spirit, not oneself or mankind's rules and regulations.
Love, truth, unity, peace, equality, and freedom.
The Spirit and to know oneself.

 

[savagewind]

Be in subjection and led by the Spirit, not oneself or mankind's rules and regulations.
Love, truth, unity, peace, equality, and freedom.
The Spirit and to know oneself.

Yes! God be praised!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The JW's are trained to perceive their teachings the way the GB presents them. I have been reading their book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures." You really have to read it 2 or 3 times to make any sense out of it. But the JW's can comprehend it because of the way they are trained to read. If any of you have this book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures" please turn to page 132 under the heading of "False Prophets", notice I said the heading was "FALSE prophets". Then read all the bold print from pages 132 to 137 and tell me what you think the REAL heading of this reasoning should be.

 

[savagewind]

Hello new person. I don't understand what you are saying. What teachings of the JWs do you think are good?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Hello new person. I don't understand what you are saying. What teachings of the JWs do you think are good?

Hello, my name is Don. I guess I don't exactly mean teachings. But I do appreciate the passion and commitment they have for the God they understand.

 

[katiemygirl]

The JW's are trained to perceive their teachings the way the GB presents them. I have been reading their book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures." You really have to read it 2 or 3 times to make any sense out of it. But the JW's can comprehend it because of the way they are trained to read. If any of you have this book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures" please turn to page 132 under the heading of "False Prophets", notice I said the heading was "FALSE prophets". Then read all the bold print from pages 132 to 137 and tell me what you think the REAL heading of this reasoning should be.

Sadly, they can't see the forest for the trees. Watchtower is the embodiment of FALSE prophets. One would have to be completely brainwashed to not see how the false prophets in this organization have repeatedly prophesied falsely.

Stick to reading the Bible ONLY, and not their interpretation of it. Run as far away and as fast as you can from this group.

Let the Holy Spirit guide you to truth. Don't rely on the teachings of men. They will mislead you.

Yes, there are many sincere, good and passionate JW's, but sincere, good and passionate isn't what justifies.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

The JW's are trained to perceive their teachings the way the GB presents them. I have been reading their book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures." You really have to read it 2 or 3 times to make any sense out of it. But the JW's can comprehend it because of the way they are trained to read. If any of you have this book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures" please turn to page 132 under the heading of "False Prophets", notice I said the heading was "FALSE prophets". Then read all the bold print from pages 132 to 137 and tell me what you think the REAL heading of this reasoning should be.

I looked it up and saw not much wrong with it.

As apposed to seeing what we disapprove of through dark tinted glasses, I think that we need to distinguish between obedience to the Bible's' counsel to keep in expectation of these things and who really is prophesying falsely.

Stating that to the best of one's ability to know this or that should be about to happen is not prophesying.

The key point to consider about false prophets is that they have ulterior motives: Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Can that be said of Jehovah's Witnesses, that they inwardly are ravenous wolves? Only those who do not know them or those who are angered at them for other personal reasons would claim so. In either case those who would claim such a thing have had their eyes darkened against them by something untrue of the group as a whole. Granted, individuals among them may have not lived up to the standards the groups ascribes to and so offended. But we have that in any faith group.

Further, if speaking wrong things is the criteria then we are all false prophets as there are none of us who have not spoken something at times and were proved wrong. Yet we speak because we are faithful to keeping in expectation and while keeping in expectation we comb the scriptures to try to see things more clearly.

Many places in the Old Testament which tell us to "wait" mean to wait in full confidence of expectation that these things will come to be. As humans we speak while we wait as that helps us to wait and shares encouragement among us that we are strengthened by each other not to give up on what we expect.

 

[katiemygirl]

I looked it up and saw not much wrong with it.

As apposed to seeing what we disapprove of through dark tinted glasses, I think that we need to distinguish between obedience to the Bible's' counsel to keep in expectation of these things and who really is prophesying falsely.

Stating that to the best of one's ability to know this or that should be about to happen is not prophesying.

The key point to consider about false prophets is that they have ulterior motives: Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Can that be said of Jehovah's Witnesses, that they inwardly are ravenous wolves? Only those who do not know them or those who are angered at them for other personal reasons would claim so. In either case those who would claim such a thing have had their eyes darkened against them by something untrue of the group as a whole. Granted, individuals among them may have not lived up to the standards the groups ascribes to and so offended. But we have that in any faith group.

Further, if speaking wrong things is the criteria then we are all false prophets as there are none of us who have not spoken something at times and were proved wrong. Yet we speak because we are faithful to keeping in expectation and while keeping in expectation we comb the scriptures to try to see things more clearly.

Many places in the Old Testament which tell us to "wait" mean to wait in full confidence of expectation that these things will come to be. As humans we speak while we wait as that helps us to wait and shares encouragement among us that we are strengthened by each other not to give up on what we expect.

The preaching of repentance and the fore telling of future events is what men like Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah and the rest of the OT prophets did. The end of the world was foretold SIX times by JW's. It never happened. They were false prophets. The only people who don't see that these men were false prophets are the JW's.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

The preaching of repentance and the fore telling of future events is what men like Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah and the rest of the OT prophets did. The end of the world was foretold SIX times by JW's. It never happened. They were false prophets. The only people who don't see that these men were false prophets are the JW's.

No, there is a huge difference between, say, Harold Camping and his exact dates and the generalizations given by the WTB&TS.

You can pick out one liners from almost anyone's comments and build them into what they are not. All Jehovah's Witnesses have really said is that we are living in the time of the end. And I think most people would agree with that.

They never said the world was going to end in 1914 or 1918, whatever that date was. They merely pointed it out as the beginning of what they refer to as the conclusion of this system of things, which they have always taught was an unspecified number of years in length. And that compares well to the first century conclusion of that then Old Covenant dominated world. The NT Bible writers spoke about the end being upon them many years before it actually took place.

Nor did they in 1975, a year that I well remember and know what they actually said. What they said was that humans were nearing 6,000 years of their existence on this earth and that if the reign of Christ was to be a thousand years there was a good possibility it would be soon. And that is all they said. Individuals got in an uproar about that due to their own stupidity.

 

[savagewind]

A false prophet is that which says something will happen in God's NAME.

It is true that the Jehovah's Witnesses never said that God says the end will come on any date that they have advertised.

BUT THEY SAY THEY ARE GOD'S EXCLUSIVE CHANNEL. That has been their claim from their beginning.

THINK!!!!!!!!!!!! They say they alone know Christ. They say Christ is their leader. They say Holy Spirit is with only them.

THEN they advertise an end of the world.

If whenever they say ANYTHING, who are they speaking FOR? Christ. Right?

To speak for The True God something that does not come true is the real definition of a false prophet.

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door? I am sure it is because they are advertising Know Jehovah.

So everything they do and say should be about knowing Jehovah.

I said, "should be", not must be. OK?

Someone believes them to listen to them and they hear that "millions now living will never die".

WHO do they have to believe is saying it?

If a listener need not believe that what they say is from Jehovah then why do they TELL people that what they say is from Jehovah?

 

[savagewind]

To Jehovah's Witness apologists, a question, please.

They say that to know what Jehovah says we must listen to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. (If you do not know that, then I think you should not be apologizing for them).

If you know that, then please explain how a person listening to them should decipher what messages are God sent and what messages are human opinion.

 

[savagewind]

An excerpt from the book Reconciliation by J. F. Rutherford Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society 1928

"Haters of God and His people are to be hated, but this does not mean that we will take any opportunity of bringing physical hurt to them in the spirit of malice or spite, for both malice and spite belong to the devil, whereas pure hatred does not.

We must hate in the truest sense which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on His beautiful earth. The earth will be rid of the wicked and we shall not need to lift a finger to cause physical harm to come to them. for God will attend to that, but we must have a proper perspective of these enemies. His name signifies recompense to the enemies."

How is that Christ-like?

Jesus says love your enemies and pray for them. Matthew 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you*

I understand that when the Bible says to hate what is bad and love what is good it doesn't mean people. Jesus says his followers are not part of the world. I think you can substitute hate for world and he is saying his followers are no part of HATE.

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that God hates us. Why does God hate us? According to the Watchtower, God hates us because we hate The Watchtower.

* but The Watchtower teaches it is a person's right and his duty to hate people who hate them.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

An excerpt from the book Reconciliation by J. F. Rutherford Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society 1928

"Haters of God and His people are to be hated, but this does not mean that we will take any opportunity of bringing physical hurt to them in the spirit of malice or spite, for both malice and spite belong to the devil, whereas pure hatred does not.

We must hate in the truest sense which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on His beautiful earth. The earth will be rid of the wicked and we shall not need to lift a finger to cause physical harm to come to them. for God will attend to that, but we must have a proper perspective of these enemies. His name signifies recompense to the enemies."

How is that Christ-like?

Jesus says love your enemies and pray for them. Matthew 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you*

I understand that when the Bible says to hate what is bad and love what is good it doesn't mean people. Jesus says his followers are not part of the world. I think you can substitute hate for world and he is saying his followers are no part of HATE.

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that God hates us. Why does God hate us? According to the Watchtower, God hates us because we hate The Watchtower.

* but The Watchtower teaches it is a person's right and his duty to hate people who hate them.

I also hate those who hate God, so I guess that means you must condemn me. And because you hatefully ridicule the pure and proper use of hatred you condemn David, who said, "Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?" Psalms 139:21

I see people who speak as you are speaking to qualify more as a false prophet than the Jehovah's Witnesses you condemn because you condemn what is godly and proper to do, not caring to learn that there is such a thing as a pure hatred or what it is. And for that reason you present the proper use of hatred as though it is evil, making yourself one who has fulfilled the prophecy that in these last days would come ones who called good bad and evil good.

I don't reckon you are capable of understanding what it means to hate the man we ourselves are, if that man is not fit to be deserving of life in God's new order of things, are you?

Are you for letting those into God's new earth who would quickly bring it back to the condition of this present earth?

Would you be interested in learning more about what that pure hatred is or is your desire only to find fault with Jehovah's Witnesses? Let your answer speak as to who you really are.

 

[savagewind]

HUH? LOL.

Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? How about now?

I believe in hating what is bad. Very good! BUT THEY SAY PEOPLE ARE BAD. Can you hear me now?

I understand JWs do not take up arms. That is their right! BUT WHAT ARE THEY TEACHING? Can you hear me NOW?

They are teaching the hate of people. WHAT IS THE WORLD???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Isn't the world the hate of people?