Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[savagewind]

what are the keys to the kingdom?

In my humble opinion the keys mean understanding. Also in my humble opinion the governing body thinks the keys mean the right to let the Bible be interpreted their way.

So is the scripture in James about money? Why would there be wisdom about money when Jesus says "they are no part of the world"?

I actually know why they won't change it back to what the writer meant. Do you want to know too?

 

[Pegg]

Yes, two folds: Jews & Gentiles. They became one fold at the house of Cornelius.

no, the scriptures dont say they become 'one fold' it says

John 10:16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

I can still pray. You never know.

Gods Word knows... it has already foretold the outcome.

 

[savagewind]

If my humble opinion is correct and that scripture in James is not about adding money but adding saved souls to the congregation, then the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are proving they are NOT inclined to listen to be corrected. How do you explain that?

 

[savagewind]

no, the scriptures dont say they become 'one fold' it says

John 10:16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.


Gods Word knows... it has already foretold the outcome.

OK. We are assuming flock and fold are the same. But now I know flock is a group of sheep and fold is sheep in an enclosure. So the anointed are penned up and the great crowd of other sheep are free.

So he is saying I have sheep who have made a promise and I have sheep who have not. In my humble opinion.

 

[Pegg]

I assume you are including the Watchtower organization along with the rest of the 33,000 different disunified mass of confusion religions, as you put it.

By the way, christians are not to judge the world, but I guess JW's are the exception to the rule eh?

You are correct, Christians are not given authority to judge the world, but they are given authority to judge within. As Christians, we must do that in order to ensure that our worship is correct and our practices are in harmony with Gods Will because we all stand before God as individuals and he will judge each of us for what we believe and practice.
We are supposed to judge those 'inside' the congregation, while God judges those 'outside' of it:

1 Cor 5:12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside?+ “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”​

You are doing that right now with this thread. You are judging 8 million Jehovahs Witnesses and calling them 'false prophets' because of what we believe and teach.

The only way you decided we are false prophets is that you looked at our teachings, you looked at our organisation and because you didnt like what you heard, you judged it as false.

And thats good that you've done that because as a follower of Christ, we must examine ourselves and our teachings and the teachings of other christians. If we didnt' do this, we might as well just go along to any denomination and sit and accept what is being taught....and if we get led astray, then we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[savagewind]

.and if we get led astray, then we only have ourselves to blame.

She said the same thing and I must apologize I find it hard to believe that if any JW who has worked very hard putting on the new personality but found later that they were wrong would only blame his or her self. Is this true?

If God proved to you that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses had misled you, would you not blame them? Not one bit?

 

[Pegg]

Two questions:
Do JW's believe that all JW's will survive armageddon? What happens to those who don't?

No, we dont believe that because everyone stands before God as an individual and he knows the heart. Not all who claim to love God actually do love him. He knows who they are and they will have no share in everlasting life.

Just being baptised is not enough... the heart must be involved in our worship of God and im pretty sure that not all JW's have it in their heart.

 

[savagewind]

If a Jehovah's Witness did everything according to the book but later Jesus said "get away from me you worker of lawlessness" would she really only blame herself? Would she really not blame the book? Would she really take all the blame on herself? REALLY?

If on the other hand you know for certain that doing everything according to the faithful and discreet slave will assure your salvation, then you make yourself equal to God I think (In my not humble opinion)

 

[savagewind]

It isn't right that when I make a statement and you can think of an insult you say it but when I ask a question you ignore it and I know why because God's word says do not even say a greeting to them. I think that order includes insults, so either put me on ignore and quit insulting me or have a conversation. It isn't right to talk to me only with insults.

 

[katiemygirl]

interpretations belong to God. If man tries to put his own interpretation, he always falls into error and that has been true of the governing body at times as well. But when God reveals understanding, then the interpretation makes a lot more sense.

The GB at one time believed that all christians were anointed for heaven just as you do. But it became clear to them that the earth will always be mankinds home. So they searched for answers and the bible gave them. They saw that Jesus spoke of 2 groups of followers. One called his closes disciples a 'little flock' and the others he called the 'other sheep'. They also saw that revelation 7 shows 2 groups of worshipers. The first group numbers only 144,000 and the they are 'seated around the throne' while the second group was so large in number that John could not count them and they were worshiping God 'before the throne'.

When all the scriptures are taken into consideration, holy spirit can guide our undestanding of how they all fit together. That is what it means to leave the interpreting to God....let the scriptures guide our thinking. It doesnt mean that God is directly speaking to the GB as he did with Moses or other prophets...it just means that the GB allow the scriptures to guide their understanding.

A lie never can become truth, and truth can never become a lie.

God's truth never changes. The Holy Spirit leads us to understand the truth of a particular concept. He doesn't give us truth one day and then change that truth to something that is polar opposite. He doesn't lead us to believe we must worship Jesus one day, and then tell us it is idolatry to worship Jesus the next day.

It is impossible for truth to change.

Proverbs 4:18, when taken in context does not justify any individual or organization replacing doctrines and failed prophecies with new doctrines and prophecies.

 

[katiemygirl]

God gave this warning to share--GET OUT OF HER--- if one doesn't I feel its the same as if I was walking down the street at 3 am and my neighbors house was on fire, I would wake them and warn them, same principle except ones eternal life is on the line concerning Gods warning.= very important to try and wake them up.

You have no business judging whether someone is lost or saved. The job of christians is to preach the gospel, not to condemn people.

You can write what you consider truth, but you cannot ever tell someone they are lost.

 

[savagewind]

Proverbs 4:18 means seeing that day better and better as a person practices righteousness. They call righteousness the light but imho the light means seeing God's will accomplished which seeing gets brighter and brighter.

 

[savagewind]

The scripture they use to prove their righteousness is Revelation 18:4 which says (NWT) 4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people,+ if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.+5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven,+ and God has called her acts of injustice* to mind.

But they make it says "get out and be saved". It doesn't say that. It says get out or suffer with her....... It is not always a bad thing to suffer with someone imo.

 

[savagewind]

So? Can anyone tell me why James is about money?

Are the jWs allowed to consider a different meaning or is it true all truth must come from the governing body first?

 

[Pegg]

A lie never can become truth, and truth can never become a lie.

God's truth never changes. The Holy Spirit leads us to understand the truth of a particular concept. He doesn't give us truth one day and then change that truth to something that is polar opposite. He doesn't lead us to believe we must worship Jesus one day, and then tell us it is idolatry to worship Jesus the next day.

nor does he tell us to Worship Jehovah, then tell us that Jehovah is actually Jesus and we should worship Jesus.

You seem to be basing all your ideas on the NT alone. Yet the bible is comprised of the hebrew scriptures as well. And in fact, when the apostles spoke of scripture or quoted from scripture or explained an idea, it was the Hebrew scriptures they were teaching from.
2Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God+ and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
So if you can't use the hebrew scriptures to present a Christian idea, then you have a problem because the Apostles only taught from the Hebrew scriptures. If your ideas contradict those scriptures, then your ideas do not originate in Gods Word or by Gods truth.

As you said, 'Gods truth never changes'

The hebrew scriptures tell us who our God is:
Psalm 83:18 May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah. That is my name;
I give my glory to no one else,
Nor my praise to graven images.

By claiming Jesus to be God, you are doing exactly what you said we should not do....ie, "change that truth to something that is polar opposite"

It is impossible for truth to change.

Proverbs 4:18, when taken in context does not justify any individual or organization replacing doctrines and failed prophecies with new doctrines and prophecies.

You are right, it is impossible for truth to change.

Jehovah will always be the God of all, the heavenly father and the one to whom all people owe their existence.

Jesus will always be his Son no matter how much effort people put into trying to change that.

 

[savagewind]

What are the keys to the Kingdom?

 

[kjw47]

You have no business judging whether someone is lost or saved. The job of christians is to preach the gospel, not to condemn people.

You can write what you consider truth, but you cannot ever tell someone they are lost.

Gods words is clear who will be saved--only those living to do the will of the Father--now 24/7 365-- not one serving a false god, or partaking from the table of demons will get saved.--Few will Jesus taught.

 

[savagewind]

nor does he tell us to Worship Jehovah, then tell us that Jehovah is actually Jesus and we should worship Jesus.

You seem to be basing all your ideas on the NT alone. Yet the bible is comprised of the hebrew scriptures as well. And in fact, when the apostles spoke of scripture or quoted from scripture or explained an idea, it was the Hebrew scriptures they were teaching from.
2Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God+ and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
So if you can't use the hebrew scriptures to present a Christian idea, then you have a problem because the Apostles only taught from the Hebrew scriptures. If your ideas contradict those scriptures, then your ideas do not originate in Gods Word or by Gods truth.

As you said, 'Gods truth never changes'

The hebrew scriptures tell us who our God is:
Psalm 83:18 May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah. That is my name;
I give my glory to no one else,
Nor my praise to graven images.

By claiming Jesus to be God, you are doing exactly what you said we should not do....ie, "change that truth to something that is polar opposite"



You are right, it is impossible for truth to change.

Jehovah will always be the God of all, the heavenly father and the one to whom all people owe their existence.

Jesus will always be his Son no matter how much effort people put into trying to change that.

But because Jehovah can be seen through The Son and only the son I am positively sure that Jehovah won't kill them for calling Jesus God. He is our vision of God so they say he is God. They have a point.

 

[savagewind]

Gods words is clear who will be saved--only those living to do the will of the Father--now 24/7 365-- not one serving a false god, or partaking from the table of demons will get saved.--Few will Jesus taught.

Jesus said he has two flocks. Perhaps the scriptures which say only the one doing the will of The Father will be saved means will be saved to Heaven and refers only to the 144,000.

 

[katiemygirl]

="Pegg, post: 4120720, member: 23994"]As you said, 'Gods truth never changes
Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah. That is my name;
I give my glory to no one else,
Nor my praise to graven images"

When someone isolates a verse away from the rest of the Bible, he/she can draw a false conclusion.

John 8:54 bears out the fact that God did glorify Jesus. Jesus said He did.

John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

John also referred to Jesus as the glory of the Father:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us; we have beheld his glory, the glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14

Jesus Himself spoke of regaining the glory which he had with his Father before the world was created:

“When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, ‘Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work which you gave me to do; and now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory which I had with you before the world was made.” John 17:1-5

These verses clearly show God shares His glory with Jesus. Read Isaiah 42:8 in context. You will realize that God said He wouldn't share His glory with anyone other than His servant.

Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.

Truth never changes. It gets twisted, but praise YHWH! We have the all inspired Scriptures to show us the absolute truth.