DharmaCatLamp
Member
Howdy!
Recently I've been reading a lot about Jesus Christ and Muhammad. This is for a variety of reasons but the origins of both the early church and the early ummah are very interesting to me. I have my doubts about the exact nature of Jesus Christ but he is a very interesting figure and I think if you view him as God you can certainly interact with the divine in that way. We can see this through christian mystics like saint Catherine of Siena and Meister Eckhart etc.
With Muhammad I must admit I feel a bit more unsure. I made a video on my channel recently talking about the nature of being a prophet and whether or not I thought Muhammad was one. To me it seems like we have a man who is often righteous but also often does things more befitting a secular ruler rather than a holy man. A few examples of what I mean.
Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9.
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years.
Sahih al-Bukhari 5134
To me this sounds like something a man of his time would do. We can look at child marriage across the world and see that it has been a common practice up until today. Certain cultures are fine with this but we should ask ourselves is this the example of the perfect man who is the example for all mankind.
We also have the events with the Banu Qurayza. This was a Jewish tribe in the city of Yathrib ( later to be known as Medina) who fought against Muhammad and the believers. The believers defeated them and when he defeated them he killed off the men and sold the women and children into slavery. Or depending on the exact narration he simply gave the women and children to Muslims as property.
Narrated Abd-Allah ibn Umar: Banu Nadir and Banu Qurayza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again). He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Banu Qaynuqa, the tribe of Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina.
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:362
We have examples as well demonstrating that when he was in Mecca we have a man who was very peaceful and wished to remain peaceful but it would seem once he gained political power and enough followers he became more interested in violent action. We can see that the Muslims would set about conquering Arabia, often through conversion but often through violence as well.
These events might make us question the nature of a prophet who would do these things but on the other hand we have these examples.
Narrated Ibn `Umar:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "If a slave is honest and faithful to his master and worships his Lord (Allah) in a perfect manner, he will get a double reward."
Sahih al-Bukhari 2546
Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him.
Sahih Muslim 1661
[76:8-9]”And feed with food the needy wretch, the orphan and the prisoner, for love of Him (saying) : We feed you, for the sake of Allah only. We wish for no reward nor thanks from you..”
We have a man of many facets here. He is not simply a warlord or the perfect man. He had his good moments and his bad moments and we could sit here and argue them forever. I will say that the part which I reject when Muslims present Muhammad to me is when we say he is the perfect man or prophet. These things I don't think we can say because ultimately he did shed blood and he did take slaves. He married a child etc.
However we also have a man who extols charity, who tells us to take care of orphans and tells us to be kind. We can see the dichotomy here in his actions. Maybe a lot of this was simply required of him as the time. Maybe he wasn't a prophet for a peaceful age. In Hinduism for example we have incarnations like Krishna and RamaKrishna. Krishna went to war and fought alongside Arjuna while RamaKrishna on the other hand never picked up a sword, Krishna did not challenge the social structure of his time but RamaKrishna did quite frequently.
Without Muhammad we also wouldn't have some of our greatest Sufi saints and poets. What occurs to me is that perhaps the divine spoke to Muhammad and through him but did not elevate him to some grand status. He was not perfect but he did a lot of good as well as plenty of things we should probably question.
Swami Vivekananda said
Mohammed by his life showed that amongst Mohammedans there should be perfect equality and brotherhood. There was no question of race, caste, creed, colour, or sex. The Sultan of Turkey may buy a Negro from the mart of Africa, and bring him in chains to Turkey; but should he become a Mohammedan and have sufficient merit and abilities, he might even marry the daughter of the Sultan. Compare this with the way in which the Negroes and the American Indians are treated in this country! And what do Hindus do? If one of your missionaries chance to touch the food of an orthodox person, he would throw it away. Notwithstanding our grand philosophy, you note our weakness in practice; but there You see the greatness of the Mohammedan beyond other races, showing itself in equality, perfect equality regardless of race or colour.
I don't think he was the perfect man but he was certainly worth taking a look at.
What do you guys think? Did Muhammad do more good than bad? Were these actions I'm calling bad actually justified?
Also here is the video that got me started on this topic. It's not required watching but it's there if ya wana check it out I guess. I think I went into more detail on a few things there.
Recently I've been reading a lot about Jesus Christ and Muhammad. This is for a variety of reasons but the origins of both the early church and the early ummah are very interesting to me. I have my doubts about the exact nature of Jesus Christ but he is a very interesting figure and I think if you view him as God you can certainly interact with the divine in that way. We can see this through christian mystics like saint Catherine of Siena and Meister Eckhart etc.
With Muhammad I must admit I feel a bit more unsure. I made a video on my channel recently talking about the nature of being a prophet and whether or not I thought Muhammad was one. To me it seems like we have a man who is often righteous but also often does things more befitting a secular ruler rather than a holy man. A few examples of what I mean.
Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9.
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years.
Sahih al-Bukhari 5134
To me this sounds like something a man of his time would do. We can look at child marriage across the world and see that it has been a common practice up until today. Certain cultures are fine with this but we should ask ourselves is this the example of the perfect man who is the example for all mankind.
We also have the events with the Banu Qurayza. This was a Jewish tribe in the city of Yathrib ( later to be known as Medina) who fought against Muhammad and the believers. The believers defeated them and when he defeated them he killed off the men and sold the women and children into slavery. Or depending on the exact narration he simply gave the women and children to Muslims as property.
Narrated Abd-Allah ibn Umar: Banu Nadir and Banu Qurayza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again). He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Banu Qaynuqa, the tribe of Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina.
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:362
We have examples as well demonstrating that when he was in Mecca we have a man who was very peaceful and wished to remain peaceful but it would seem once he gained political power and enough followers he became more interested in violent action. We can see that the Muslims would set about conquering Arabia, often through conversion but often through violence as well.
These events might make us question the nature of a prophet who would do these things but on the other hand we have these examples.
Narrated Ibn `Umar:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "If a slave is honest and faithful to his master and worships his Lord (Allah) in a perfect manner, he will get a double reward."
Sahih al-Bukhari 2546
Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him.
Sahih Muslim 1661
[76:8-9]”And feed with food the needy wretch, the orphan and the prisoner, for love of Him (saying) : We feed you, for the sake of Allah only. We wish for no reward nor thanks from you..”
We have a man of many facets here. He is not simply a warlord or the perfect man. He had his good moments and his bad moments and we could sit here and argue them forever. I will say that the part which I reject when Muslims present Muhammad to me is when we say he is the perfect man or prophet. These things I don't think we can say because ultimately he did shed blood and he did take slaves. He married a child etc.
However we also have a man who extols charity, who tells us to take care of orphans and tells us to be kind. We can see the dichotomy here in his actions. Maybe a lot of this was simply required of him as the time. Maybe he wasn't a prophet for a peaceful age. In Hinduism for example we have incarnations like Krishna and RamaKrishna. Krishna went to war and fought alongside Arjuna while RamaKrishna on the other hand never picked up a sword, Krishna did not challenge the social structure of his time but RamaKrishna did quite frequently.
Without Muhammad we also wouldn't have some of our greatest Sufi saints and poets. What occurs to me is that perhaps the divine spoke to Muhammad and through him but did not elevate him to some grand status. He was not perfect but he did a lot of good as well as plenty of things we should probably question.
Swami Vivekananda said
Mohammed by his life showed that amongst Mohammedans there should be perfect equality and brotherhood. There was no question of race, caste, creed, colour, or sex. The Sultan of Turkey may buy a Negro from the mart of Africa, and bring him in chains to Turkey; but should he become a Mohammedan and have sufficient merit and abilities, he might even marry the daughter of the Sultan. Compare this with the way in which the Negroes and the American Indians are treated in this country! And what do Hindus do? If one of your missionaries chance to touch the food of an orthodox person, he would throw it away. Notwithstanding our grand philosophy, you note our weakness in practice; but there You see the greatness of the Mohammedan beyond other races, showing itself in equality, perfect equality regardless of race or colour.
I don't think he was the perfect man but he was certainly worth taking a look at.
What do you guys think? Did Muhammad do more good than bad? Were these actions I'm calling bad actually justified?
Also here is the video that got me started on this topic. It's not required watching but it's there if ya wana check it out I guess. I think I went into more detail on a few things there.
