Was Christ Divine?

[Twig pentagram]

I think I AM my own Christ, and I think I AM divine. Therfore I think Christ is Divine.

 

[abdulbasith]

So from the bible one can get different interpretations as to whether Jesus was divine or God or just a prophet?

As for "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me", this could also mean he is a prophet and does not really have to mean he is God. If we follow his teachings we can "go to the Father" (heaven), so therefore he is the "way".

 

[JacobEzra.]

So from the bible one can get different interpretations as to whether Jesus was divine or God or just a prophet?
.

I dont get how you came up with this idea. But it seems this whole thread you started to try and make a point, yet now you are just forcing that point out of thin air.

 

[abdulbasith]

I dont get how you came up with this idea. But it seems this whole thread you started to try and make a point, yet now you are just forcing that point out of thin air.

How am I forcing it?
There are other people saying Jesus was not necessarily divine, there is a mixed opinion. Also, I didn't start this thread.

 

[JacobEzra.]

How am I forcing it?
There are other people saying Jesus was not necessarily divine, there is a mixed opinion. Also, I didn't start this thread.

Sorry bout that.

But the ones saying jesus isn't divine, seem to be the non-christians in this thread.

 

[abdulbasith]

I dont get how you came up with this idea. But it seems this whole thread you started to try and make a point, yet now you are just forcing that point out of thin air.

When Jesus is walking to Lazurus's body to bring him back to life, he is looking up and groaning and he wept and he asks God to help him.

In Acts it is mentioned he is a man approved of God.

In the verses I mentioned earlier he did not know who touched his robes.

All these points question whether Jesus is God and being restricted to a body does not have to "limit" him eg. knowing who touched his robes or asking God to give him the ability to raise Lazurus from the dead, this has nothing to do with having a body. (Sorry for any spelling mistakes)

 

[abdulbasith]

Sorry bout that.

But the ones saying jesus isn't divine, seem to be the non-christians in this thread.

No worries.

The christians will say Jesus was God so shouldn't we see both sides of the argument?

 

[JacobEzra.]

When Jesus is walking to Lazurus's body to bring him back to life, he is looking up and groaning and he wept and he asks God to help him.

In Acts it is mentioned he is a man approved of God.

In the verses I mentioned earlier he did not know who touched his robes.

All these points question whether Jesus is God and being restricted to a body does not have to "limit" him eg. knowing who touched his robes or asking God to give him the ability to raise Lazurus from the dead, this has nothing to do with having a body. (Sorry for any spelling mistakes)

Since you are human, and I sneak up behind you and touch you, will you know who did it if you did not see me? Jesus on earth was fully human(and fully divine)

With Jesus asking the Father for permission is because Jesus did say he was on earth to do his Fathers will, not his own. If Jesus wanted to raise the man from dead, he woul dbe doing his own will, not the fathers.

 

[JacobEzra.]

In Acts it is mentioned he is a man approved of God.

Could you give me the exact verses?

 

[Acim]

I think I AM my own Christ, and I think I AM divine. Therfore I think Christ is Divine.

I think you actually believe this.

 

[abdulbasith]

Since you are human, and I sneak up behind you and touch you, will you know who did it if you did not see me? Jesus on earth was fully human(and fully divine)

With Jesus asking the Father for permission is because Jesus did say he was on earth to do his Fathers will, not his own. If Jesus wanted to raise the man from dead, he woul dbe doing his own will, not the fathers.

I wouldn't have known who touched me because I'm all human, and this is what happened in the case of Jesus, if he was God it wouldn't have been so.

The verse I was referring to is "Acts 2:22" where Peter makes a clear distinction between man and God, and says that Jesus did these miracles with the help of God which is what we see in the other Gospels as well. In the Gospel of Mark when the woman touched him without Jesus knowing, God allowed her to be healed but Jesus had no idea who had touched him, he only knew the "power" was drained from him and so he began looking for her.

The same when Jesus is walking to Lazurus, he asks God for help and in John 11:42 he tells God that he prayed like that so the people know that it was God who allowed him to do these miracles and he wasn't doing it on his own, or else he wouldn't have wept and groaned and prayed to God.

 

[Pegg]

Being a Muslim and a student of the Bible - I would conclusively say no - as the Bible clearly describes him as a man APPROVED/ACCREDITED by God - thus negating his divinity (e.g. Acts 2:22)

as a student of the bible, what did you think of when you came to these verses?

John 3:13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man

John 6:37 Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and the one that comes to me I will by no means drive away; 38 because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me

John 8:23 So he went on to say to them: “YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world

Colossians 3:1 If, however, YOU were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking the things above, where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God

1Peter 3:22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him


Do they not testify that Christ is really a divine being...an spirit being...one who was originally from heaven and who is now back in heaven?

 

[JacobEzra.]

I wouldn't have known who touched me because I'm all human, and this is what happened in the case of Jesus, if he was God it wouldn't have been so.

The verse I was referring to is "Acts 2:22" where Peter makes a clear distinction between man and God, and says that Jesus did these miracles with the help of God which is what we see in the other Gospels as well. In the Gospel of Mark when the woman touched him without Jesus knowing, God allowed her to be healed but Jesus had no idea who had touched him, he only knew the "power" was drained from him and so he began looking for her.

The same when Jesus is walking to Lazurus, he asks God for help and in John 11:42 he tells God that he prayed like that so the people know that it was God who allowed him to do these miracles and he wasn't doing it on his own, or else he wouldn't have wept and groaned and prayed to God.

1) have you been even reading any of my posts?

Regarding Acts 2;22
Did you read the whole chapte? Let alone read the one before it to put it all in context? St. Peter is giving a speech to the Jews.
Here is what is said near the end of the chapter

[36] Therefore let all the house of Israel know most certainly, that God hath made both Lord and Christ, this same Jesus, whom you have crucified. [37] Now when they had heard these things, they had compunction in their heart, and said to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles: What shall we do, men and brethren? [38] But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. [40] And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation.

 

[Twig pentagram]

I think you actually believe this.

Nice try, but you're wrong.

 

[abdulbasith]

1) have you been even reading any of my posts?

Regarding Acts 2;22
Did you read the whole chapte? Let alone read the one before it to put it all in context? St. Peter is giving a speech to the Jews.
Here is what is said near the end of the chapter

[36] Therefore let all the house of Israel know most certainly, that God hath made both Lord and Christ, this same Jesus, whom you have crucified. [37] Now when they had heard these things, they had compunction in their heart, and said to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles: What shall we do, men and brethren? [38] But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. [40] And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation.

In Acts we see 2:36 he says "God" made Jesus Lord and Christ. Lord dosen't necessarily mean God.
3:26 he is referred to as servant.
3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. Jesus is referred to as servant and not God.
4:27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
5:42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ. Christ means "anointed".
5:29-30 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.

Jesus is continuously referred to as the servant or the christ, the messiah or anointed one.

 

[JacobEzra.]

In Acts we see 2:36 he says "God" made Jesus Lord and Christ. Lord dosen't necessarily mean God..

God the Father and God the Son are not the same. The Father is the one who raised the Son.

From Matthew 28
[18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Sounds like he is Lord and Christ.

3:26 he is referred to as servant. .

[26] To you first God, raising up his Son, hath sent him to bless you; that every one may convert himself from his wickedness.
Not really.

3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. Jesus is referred to as servant and not God. .

Read on a bit;
[14] But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you. [15] But the author of life you killed, whom God hath raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

Sounds like Christ was called the 'author of life". And is also called the Holy One. Dont forget us Christians believe in the Trinity. I think that is why you are getting tripped up.

4:27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed..

Cherry picked and taken out of context. This is not legit argument.

5:42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never
stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ. Christ means "anointed"..
5:29-30 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree..

Taken out of context...again. Plus look at the verse you skipped.

[31] Him hath God exalted with his right hand, to be Prince and Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. [32] And we are witnesses of these things and the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to all that obey him.

Jesus is continuously referred to as the servant or the christ, the messiah or anointed one.

As well as continously referred to as Lord and Savior.

 

[On_a_Quest]

So from the bible one can get different interpretations as to whether Jesus was divine or God or just a prophet?

Exactly the point I was trying to make. The Bible is a compilation of different writings from different authors that have been copied and recopied (either accurately or very inaccurately) until we have the New Testament we have today. Along the way, changes were made due to theological opinions or even political discussions of the times. That's why some parts of the NT lean towards Jesus' divinity and other parts indicate that he was more human. I don't think we can get the real truth out of the Bible because so many different opinions went into it over many centuries. I guess it all depends on what makes the most sense to the individual and what one believes in.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Exactly the point I was trying to make. The Bible is a compilation of different writings from different authors that have been copied and recopied (either accurately or very inaccurately) until we have the New Testament we have today. Along the way, changes were made due to theological opinions or even political discussions of the times. That's why some parts of the NT lean towards Jesus' divinity and other parts indicate that he was more human. I don't think we can get the real truth out of the Bible because so many different opinions went into it over many centuries. I guess it all depends on what makes the most sense to the individual and what one believes in.

proof?

 

[abdulbasith]

God the Father and God the Son are not the same. The Father is the one who raised the Son.

From Matthew 28
[18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Sounds like he is Lord and Christ.



[26] To you first God, raising up his Son, hath sent him to bless you; that every one may convert himself from his wickedness.
Not really.

Read on a bit;
[14] But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you. [15] But the author of life you killed, whom God hath raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

Sounds like Christ was called the 'author of life". And is also called the Holy One. Dont forget us Christians believe in the Trinity. I think that is why you are getting tripped up.


Cherry picked and taken out of context. This is not legit argument.

Taken out of context...again. Plus look at the verse you skipped.

[31] Him hath God exalted with his right hand, to be Prince and Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. [32] And we are witnesses of these things and the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to all that obey him.



As well as continously referred to as Lord and Savior.

Again, all the titles being given to Jesus can also be titles of normal prophets. It does not mean he is God. The Old Testament states Yahweh is the only God. Nowhere does it explicitly refer to Jesus as God and all these titles such as savior etc. do not necessarily mean God.

In Mark 12:28-30 Jesus himself says the Lord is one, and this is the exact same commandment Moses had told his people. If Jesus was God why would he not say it and then also explain the trinity.

Also in John 5:30 Jesus says he cannot do anything on his own which is similar to Acts 2:22 where Peter tells the people that God is allowing Jesus to the miracles and that he is a man approved of God.

And also regarding Acts 3:26, certain versions of the bible refer to Jesus as servant and not son. The exact version I looked at was the New International Version: "When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways"

Even in the Gospel of John (17:3), Jesus is praying to the Father and he says "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." He refers to the Father as the only true God, which contradicts Jesus being God.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Again, all the titles being given to Jesus can also be titles of normal prophets. It does not mean he is God. The Old Testament states Yahweh is the only God. Nowhere does it explicitly refer to Jesus as God and all these titles such as savior etc. do not necessarily mean God.

And the trinity is a revealed thing. No where in teh OT did Jesus make his apperance. Not until the NT.

But an interesting note would be, in the OT the plural word 'Elohim" is used to talk about God.


PS; What about the Father giving Jesus All teh Power on Earth and Heaven?

PSS' What about all of thous qoutes from the Gospel itself?