Was Christ Divine?

[ThezFad]

This thread primarily concerns Muslims and Christians - as they are the only two religions that accept Christ as one of the greatest men whoever lived - however they differ upon this point.

 

[ThezFad]

Being a Muslim and a student of the Bible - I would conclusively say no - as the Bible clearly describes him as a man APPROVED/ACCREDITED by God - thus negating his divinity (e.g. Acts 2:22)

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

Actually, the Bible speaks of Christ having two natures, both man and God. The Bible also says:

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

I have several more

 

[ThezFad]

Actually, the Bible speaks of Christ having two natures, both man and God. The Bible also says:

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

I have several more

Show me where Jesus directly requests of his people that he be worshipped, or where Jesus directly states he is God. This verse can be interpreted in various different ways - such as that God has omnipotent knowledge of past, present and future - and thus held Jesus in high Glory before creating him because he knew of what he was to be when created.

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

Show me where Jesus directly requests of his people that he be worshipped, or where Jesus directly states he is God. This verse can be interpreted in various different ways - such as that God has omnipotent knowledge of past, present and future - and thus held Jesus in high Glory before creating him because he knew of what he was to be when created.

Jesus directly stating he is God:

John 14:8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

 

[wmjbyatt]

This thread primarily concerns Muslims and Christians - as they are the only two religions that accept Christ as one of the greatest men whoever lived - however they differ upon this point.

I'd like to point out that you forgot the Baha'i and most spiritual rationalists. There are also Christian sects that deny Christ's divinity (don't ask me how that justification goes: I'm not a schismatic theologian.)

 

[Guitar's Cry]

For me, Christ represents the divinity that is in all of us, and his mythology represents the mystical realization of that.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Show me where Jesus directly requests of his people that he be worshipped, or where Jesus directly states he is God. This verse can be interpreted in various different ways - such as that God has omnipotent knowledge of past, present and future - and thus held Jesus in high Glory before creating him because he knew of what he was to be when created.

From the Gospel of St. Matthew ch. 16

[13] And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? [14] But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. [15] Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

Id say that this is pretty direct. Whats also direct would be the Father commenting to Jesus on his baptism.Again from St. Matthew ch 3
[16] And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. [17] And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

And there is the Transfiguration on the mount; Recorded in the Gospel according to St. Luke ch.9
.

[28] And it came to pass about eight days after these words, that he took Peter, and James, and John, and went up into a mountain to pray. [29] And whilst he prayed, the shape of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became white and glittering. [30] And behold two men were talking with him. And they were Moses and Elias,

[31] Appearing in majesty. And they spoke of his decease that he should accomplish in Jerusalem. [32] But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep. And waking, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him. [33] And it came to pass, that as they were departing from him, Peter saith to Jesus: Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias; not knowing what he said. [34] And as he spoke these things, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them; and they were afraid, when they entered into the cloud. [35] And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son; hear him.

The last thing I want to mention is what the Angel Gabriel said to Mary.In the Gospel of St. Luke,

[26] And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, [27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. [28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

[31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. [33] And of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? [35] And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

[Biblestudent_007]

Was Christ Divine?

Yes. . . .

 

[abdulbasith]

Can someone explain the concept of Jesus being man and God. I've been reading the bible and its more like Jesus was man at times and, you can say, God at times. Its not like he posses both these qualities at once but at different times. For example in the Gospel of St. Mark, chapter 5, verses 21 onwards, there is the story of Jesus touching the woman to heal her of her bleeding issue. But the woman touches his clothes without him knowing and gets healed. Then in verse 30 he asks "Who touched my clothes?". So in this moment Jesus was all man because God is all knowing and he would have known who touched him and not asked around. So it seems that at times he is all man and at other times this changes so if Jesus was God why would he choose to be man at times and God at times. Can someone explain this please?

 

[JacobEzra.]

Can someone explain the concept of Jesus being man and God. I've been reading the bible and its more like Jesus was man at times and, you can say, God at times. Its not like he posses both these qualities at once but at different times. For example in the Gospel of St. Mark, chapter 5, verses 21 onwards, there is the story of Jesus touching the woman to heal her of her bleeding issue. But the woman touches his clothes without him knowing and gets healed. Then in verse 30 he asks "Who touched my clothes?". So in this moment Jesus was all man because God is all knowing and he would have known who touched him and not asked around. So it seems that at times he is all man and at other times this changes so if Jesus was God why would he choose to be man at times and God at times. Can someone explain this please?

Because he was fully human but also fully divine.

 

[abdulbasith]

Because he was fully human but also fully divine.

So if he was fully divine at the same time why didn't he know the woman touched him? Being divine also means being "all - knowing". He was all man and no God at this moment.

 

[JacobEzra.]

So if he was fully divine at the same time why didn't he know the woman touched him? Being divine also means being "all - knowing". He was all man and no God at this moment.

I do not think being Divine means being "all-knowing". I think you are adding on to the definition.

That said, being all-knowing attribute of God, is due to his unrestricted abilities, he has no body. Yet God the Son incarnate, that is, while he was on earth, was restricted to his body. Though he held divine attributes and was one with the Father, he healed and brought about many miracles. But the greatest miracle was showing us "the way, the truth and the light of his word

 

[abdulbasith]

I do not think being Divine means being "all-knowing". I think you are adding on to the definition.

That said, being all-knowing attribute of God, is due to his unrestricted abilities, he has no body. Yet God the Son incarnate, that is, while he was on earth, was restricted to his body. Though he held divine attributes and was one with the Father, he healed and brought about many miracles. But the greatest miracle was showing us "the way, the truth and the light of his word

So then what makes Jesus God? How does him having a body restrict him from being "all - knowing" like the Father? And also there have been other prophets with miracles, like Moses and Elisha, you could say greater miracles too.

 

[JacobEzra.]

So then what makes Jesus God? How does him having a body restrict him from being "all - knowing" like the Father? And also there have been other prophets with miracles, like Moses and Elisha, you could say greater miracles too.

No, Moses nor Elisha, though I think you might mean Elijah, have not done such great miracles. And as I said his word and Jesus' showing the way was the greatest.

I already said what makes Jesus God the Son. His words and his actions

 

[idav]

Actually, the Bible speaks of Christ having two natures, both man and God. The Bible also says:

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

I have several more

Doesn't change the fact that the glory would have to be given to him or bestowed upon him. Even in the verse you pointed out Jesus has to ask for it which Jews and Muslims would consider such a request blasphemous.
John 8
50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge.

 

[no-body]

Can someone explain the concept of Jesus being man and God. I've been reading the bible and its more like Jesus was man at times and, you can say, God at times. Its not like he posses both these qualities at once but at different times. For example in the Gospel of St. Mark, chapter 5, verses 21 onwards, there is the story of Jesus touching the woman to heal her of her bleeding issue. But the woman touches his clothes without him knowing and gets healed. Then in verse 30 he asks "Who touched my clothes?". So in this moment Jesus was all man because God is all knowing and he would have known who touched him and not asked around. So it seems that at times he is all man and at other times this changes so if Jesus was God why would he choose to be man at times and God at times. Can someone explain this please?

A popular interpretation is that Jesus wasn't genuinely surprised he was just being rhetorical. Like when God asks Adam and Eve why they are wearing clothes after eating the apple or Cain where Abel is after he killed him, God knows he is just being a smart aleck.

Of course Occams Razor, the real interpretation is probably that there where lots of people who made up stories of Jesus with their own ax to grind of what he should be like.

 

[On_a_Quest]

Of course Occams Razor, the real interpretation is probably that there where lots of people who made up stories of Jesus with their own ax to grind of what he should be like.

This is true, all the stories in the Bible were written way after the fact during a time period where the followers of Jesus were trying to figure themselves out. Some people believed that Jesus was human, but blessed by God. Others thought he was entirely divine. Some people suggested that Jesus was human, but Christ was the spirit of God that took over Jesus' body from time to time to perform miracles. Different parts of the Bible may have been influenced by these theological arguments.

Also, since everything at that time would have been copied by hand, mistakes and changes were easy to make. A scribe who thought that Jesus was human could easily add a line or change it to make it look like Jesus didn't realize the woman was there. This goes for many passages in the Bible. There are some passages that historians have proved didn't even exist in the earliest copies of the New Testament.

To answer the primary question of this thread: I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect that Christ was not divine. I believe that he performed many of the miracles mentioned in the Bible, but through the power of God, not by his own power. He was trying to show how powerful faith in God can be.

 

[Zardoz]

Was Christ Divine?

No...

 

[Acim]

Christ is (not only was) clearly divine.

Keep in mind that Jesus' last name wasn't Christ. And Christ is alive and well in You / Me / Us. Jesus is hardly only one worthy of being called Christ, and perhaps only difference is Jesus saw Christ in everyone, while some pretend that only Jesus can be Christ. That would be idolatry and hardly worthy of devotion, if understanding that reciprocal nature of relationships would have Jesus doing unto You as you would do unto Him.

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

This is not saying "through Jesus" and would've been stated as such if that was the meaning to take from it. All can say this and the truth would be entirely accurate. You will not come to the Father through something outside of You.