1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Was Bahaullah a "Bahai", please?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,099
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    Was Bahaullah a "Bahai", please?
    Bahaullah was sure not a "Bahai" as per the core book of Bahaullah named by him as "Kitab-i-Iqan".

    Jesus was not a "Christian", he was a Jew, he was "Baptized" posthumously as virtually being a follower of a new religion "Christianity" by Paul/Church and or the associates.
    Thread open to all religions or no-religions.

    Regards
    ___________

    68. BAHÁ’U’LLÁH’S REVERENCE FOR THE QUR’ÁN

    " It should come as no surprise that Bahá’u’lláh’s respect for the Qur’an was heartfelt and genuine. Bahá’u’lláh was, after all, a Muslim."
    CHRISTOPHER BUCK
    Visiting Assistant Professor, Michigan State University, [email protected]ÁT PRESSLOS ANGELES
    Symbol & Secret: Qur’an Commentary in Baha’u’llah’s Kitab-i Iqan (1995/2004)
     
    #1 paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    28,440
    Ratings:
    +12,623
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    He was born Muslim.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,099
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    Not, sure. His relationship with Bab should not be ignored, instead of that Christopher Buck described him a Muslim. Right, please? Christopher Buck's treatise is with reference to Iqan.
    Bab was a Shia Muslim in thoughts and deeds, or not,would be yet another topic.
     
    #3 paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    28,440
    Ratings:
    +12,623
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    Then I have no idea. You'll have to wait for a Baha'i person to respond.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,718
    Ratings:
    +5,228
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Jesus was the first Christian, and Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i, but nonetheless this is splitting 'frog hairs' as who is who and the first. Before Christ was Baptized by John the Baptist and the Dove descended from heaven, while living by the way, he was a Jew. Of course, before Baha'u'llah received the Revelation and declared His Revelation he was born a Muslim than a follower of the Bab, and one of the eighteen 'Letters of the Living.'

    What is your point anyways since your a non-believer anyway?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,099
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    What did Bahaullah say about himself, please, pertinently in Iqan?
    It is a simple question, he must not have forgotten to mention it in Iqan, or his human limitations like forgetfulness restrained him; and he was not a God for sure.

    Regards
     
    #6 paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  7. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,480
    Ratings:
    +2,778
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    He was a Manifestation of God as were Christ and Muhammad. All the Manifestations took a human form and identity and were born into different religious backgrounds but They were all pre existent. That is They were not conceived in this world like we are but pre existed in a world of God before being sent to the world. That is the Baha’i belief.
     
    #7 loverofhumanity, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 2
  8. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,480
    Ratings:
    +2,778
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    He did not reveal His Station until 1963 but later referred to Himself as...

    He Who is the Pre-Existent is come.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Advent of Divine Justice, Pages 72-85
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,099
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    This is a terminology that Bahaullah invented and seemed to stretch/blow out it too much. But presently we are discussing "Was Bahaullah a Bahai' ", please?". If he was a "first Bahai" as our friend @shunyadragon would like us to believe, then we human beings would like that that claim should be from him from Iqan the "Book of Certitude" the core book of Bahaullah.
    Sorry, we are much interested in Bahaullah, rather than "Bahaism", please.

    Regards
     
    #9 paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  10. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,480
    Ratings:
    +2,778
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Quran 53:10

    10 and he revealed unto his servant that which he revealed. The heart of Mohammed did not falsely represent that which he saw. Will ye therefore dispute with him concerning that which he saw? He also saw him another time, by the lote-tree beyond which there is no passing: near it is the garden of eternal abode. When the lote-tree covered that which it covered, his eyesight turned not aside, neither did it wander: and he really beheld some of the greatest signs of his LORD.

    At the end of the Book of Certitude Baha’u’llah refers to Himself as...

    “Peace be upon him that inclineth his ear unto the melody of the Mystic Bird calling from the Sadratu’l-Muntahá!

    The Kitáb-i-Íqán
    Bahá’u’lláh

    The Lote Tree is where Muhammad saw the signs of God only a Prophet can see and Baha’u’llah said that He was calling from the Lote Tree referring to Himself also as Muhammad.

    The Abode Of Peace and now the Lote Tree. Two indisputable proofs Baha’u’llah referred to His Manifestation both in the Iqan.

    Both Muhammad and Baha’u’llah reached the Lote Tree. Baha’u’llah too beheld some of the greatest signs of his LORD at the time of the revealing of the Iqan. (See last sentence of Iqan)
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  11. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    8,541
    Ratings:
    +6,572
    Religion:
    Christian
    Interesting. I Know that Jesus was a jew, but I never heard he was baptized posthumously. I always thought he was baptized by John the Baptist.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,099
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    Sorry friend, one's post does not answer the simple question if Bahaullah was a "Bahai" or not, or its another connotation suggested by our friend @shunyadragon if Bahaullah was a "first Bahai" or not in the Iqan period. If he got converted to it in the pre-Iqan period , then who got him converted from which previous religion Babi-non-Islamic or Shia-Islam, he did not belong to Sunni Islam, for sure. Right, please?
    The topic, please.

    Regards
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,099
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    Never-mind, please, though Jesus got Baptized clearly at hands of the John the Baptist and he did not renounce it to become a non-Jew later. So, Jesus was a Jew till he died naturally at the age of about 120 years. He was a man of strong-faith and he never got converted a "Christian" or a "first-Christian" in all his life. I love Jesus and Mary.

    We are presently discussing about Bahaullah's conversion to a "Bahai" or a "first Bahai" in the "pre-Iqan period and or "Iqan-period". This is the priority here, please.

    Regards
     
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,718
    Ratings:
    +5,228
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    This sarcastic belittling post is hardly worth responding to. There are many Baha'i writings other than the Iqan. Do you remember that the citation of the claim of Baha'u'llah was posted to you?

    Again what is your purpose here?
     
  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Ratings:
    +1,414
    Religion:
    Baha'i inspired liberal
    A Christian is a follower of Christ, a Baha’i is a follower of Baha’u’llah. One is not a follower of themselves even if they believe in what they are saying.

    So no, Baha’u’llah was not the first Baha’i any more than Muhammad was the first Muhammadan.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,718
    Ratings:
    +5,228
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    No, it does not need to come from the Iqan, because that is NOT the subject of the Iqan. It is in the Baha'i writings in the words of Baha'u'llah. Your insults are unnecessary if your purpose is simply to ask for information.

    The question of who was the first Baha'i is not meaningful anyway. The question is whether Baha'u'llah's claim is true. You as a non-believer do not consider it so.
     
    #16 shunyadragon, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,718
    Ratings:
    +5,228
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    I translate Baha'i a little differently I consider it 'the follower of the Glory or the light,' and not the follower of the person. I believe the 'first' can be interpreted in different ways, but nonetheless it is not a meaningful question, since of course, Christ is the Manifestation of God for Christianity, Muhammad is the Manifestation of God for Islam, and Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for the Baha'i Faith.

    @paarsurrey is playing rhetorical word games with no meaning. The valid question is whether Christ, Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah are who they claim to be.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2018
    Messages:
    869
    Ratings:
    +519
    Religion:
    Shia Islam (Twelver)
    I know this thread is about the Baha'i founder, but when it comes to The Bab: He was thoroughly a Twelver Shia Muslim inside and out :cool:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Ratings:
    +1,414
    Religion:
    Baha'i inspired liberal
    It might be off-topic to point this out, but are you aware that baptism is a Christian practice, and not a Jewish practice?
     
  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,718
    Ratings:
    +5,228
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    OK
     
Loading...