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Was Albert Einstein an atheist

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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Key word, PERSONAL God is what he dont believe in. But given the reality of his other qoutes where he expressed belief in God, the picture we have is clear.

He believed God was a intelligence, is a spirit, created the laws of the universe and is not personal or interactive.

Thats what einstein believed.


Dear Mr Gutkind,

Inspired by Brouwer’s repeated suggestion, I read a great deal in your book, and thank you very much for lending it to me ... With regard to the factual attitude to life and to the human community we have a great deal in common. Your personal ideal with its striving for freedom from ego-oriented desires, for making life beautiful and noble, with an emphasis on the purely human element ... unites us as having an “American Attitude.”

Still, without Brouwer’s suggestion I would never have gotten myself to engage intensively with your book because it is written in a language inaccessible to me. The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. ... For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong ... have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything “chosen” about them.

In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision...

Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, i.e. in our evaluation of human behavior ... I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things.

With friendly thanks and best wishes,

Yours,

A. Einstein
 

Prometheus85

Active Member
The laws that cause lighting to form and exist, those laws wer created. Chance did not make the laws.

Huh?

lightning - occurs between the two charges within the cloud. This is like a static electricity sparks you see, but much bigger. Most lightning happens inside a cloud, but sometimes it happens between the cloud and the ground.
 
“Human Fantasy Created Gods”

Albert Einstein

Ok, lets look at the context of that, shall we? Yes we shall.

"During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world."
Albert Einstein, quoted in "2000 Years of Disbelief," James Haught.

Thats yet ANOTHER WAY of saying einstein did not believe in a PERSONAL God.

But, the fact still remains, he does believe in a God, just not a personal one or one made in our image or one who influences or interacts with the world.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Key word, PERSONAL God is what he dont believe in. But given the reality of his other qoutes where he expressed belief in God, the picture we have is clear.

He believed God was a intelligence, is a spirit, created the laws of the universe and is not personal or interactive.

Thats what einstein believed.

The keywords being

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated.
 
Dear Mr Gutkind,

Inspired by Brouwer’s repeated suggestion, I read a great deal in your book, and thank you very much for lending it to me ... With regard to the factual attitude to life and to the human community we have a great deal in common. Your personal ideal with its striving for freedom from ego-oriented desires, for making life beautiful and noble, with an emphasis on the purely human element ... unites us as having an “American Attitude.”

Still, without Brouwer’s suggestion I would never have gotten myself to engage intensively with your book because it is written in a language inaccessible to me. The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. ... For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong ... have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything “chosen” about them.

In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision...

Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, i.e. in our evaluation of human behavior ... I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things.

With friendly thanks and best wishes,

Yours,

A. Einstein

Ok, lets break this down.

"The word (the word or name, not the concept and not the proper KIND of God, such as the impersonal one) God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."(within context, hes talking about the personal, biblical God is childish to him, but not the deistic form of God he clearly portreyed he DID believe in via many of his other qoutes.)
 

Prometheus85

Active Member
Ok, lets look at the context of that, shall we? Yes we shall.

"During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world."
Albert Einstein, quoted in "2000 Years of Disbelief," James Haught.

Thats yet ANOTHER WAY of saying einstein did not believe in a PERSONAL God.

But, the fact still remains, he does believe in a God, just not a personal one or one made in our image or one who influences or interacts with the world.

No. The fact still remains, Albert Einstein was a brilliant man who saw the limited capacity of human beings to understand that which is. His beliefs were well thought out and intricate enough that they can not fall under any label that some might wish to apply to him, thus making it appear as though he would have agreed with them on all fronts. If there is any common theme that flows through all that he has said about what it is he believes it is the idea that we can never know, but we should never stop looking. To take his words out of context and attempt to apply them to an argument for your own world view is misrepresentative and dishonest and quite frankly, a failure to articulate your own beliefs in a way that can be understood.
 
No. The fact still remains, Albert Einstein was a brilliant man who saw the limited capacity of human beings to understand that which is. His beliefs were well thought out and intricate enough that they can not fall under any label that some might wish to apply to him, thus making it appear as though he would have agreed with them on all fronts. If there is any common theme that flows through all that he has said about what it is he believes it is the idea that we can never know, but we should never stop looking. To take his words out of context and attempt to apply them to an argument for your own world view is misrepresentative and dishonest and quite frankly, a failure to articulate your own beliefs in a way that can be understood.

I did not misrepresent him and im not being dishonest, rule breaker.

In fact, your misrepresenting me by saying im trying to get einstein to agree with my world view. Thats not so, because i believe in a PERSONAL God, NOT a deistic one.

And this is not about labels, its about beliefs. The man had them, as well as we all have beliefs.
 

Prometheus85

Active Member
CC524232-BEDF-41A9-B2E2-7A54F31F1D97.jpeg
The lie is that he believed in a PERSONAL, biblical God, NOT the deistic God.
 

Prometheus85

Active Member
I did not misrepresent him and im not being dishonest, rule breaker.

In fact, your misrepresenting me by saying im trying to get einstein to agree with my world view. Thats not so, because i believe in a PERSONAL God, NOT a deistic one.

And this is not about labels, its about beliefs. The man had them, as well as we all have beliefs.

You said, the fact remains he believes in a god. What is this “god” Albert Einstein believes in?
 
You said, the fact remains he believes in a god. What is this “god” Albert Einstein believes in?

The God he believed in, he described that God himself.

He said this "God created the laws", is a "intelligence", is a "spirit", also said "force". Made the "harmony" of the universe. Is "not a personal" God.

This describes a deistic kind of God.
 
Huh?

lightning - occurs between the two charges within the cloud. This is like a static electricity sparks you see, but much bigger. Most lightning happens inside a cloud, but sometimes it happens between the cloud and the ground.

AKA, the laws.

And those laws wer created
 

Prometheus85

Active Member
The God he believed in, he described that God himself.

He said this "God created the laws", is a "intelligence", is a "spirit", also said "force". Made the "harmony" of the universe. Is "not a personal" God.

This describes a deistic kind of God.

That’s a textbook example of taking something out of context to suit your needs.

So What did Einstein have to say in his letters about God?

“I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one,” he wrote to a man who corresponded with him on the subject twice in the 1940s. “You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist. … I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”


So… if Einstein lived today, he’d say he’s not a “New Atheist.” He wouldn’t be trying to convince you to shed your faith. Instead, he’d follow the Neil deGrasse Tyson approach to religion, which is to say he’d stay away from labels… but even he’d admit the idea of a Christian God who listens to your prayers and watches over your life is just flat-out ridiculous.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Key word, PERSONAL God is what he dont believe in. But given the reality of his other qoutes where he expressed belief in God, the picture we have is clear.

He believed God was a intelligence, is a spirit, created the laws of the universe and is not personal or interactive.

Thats what einstein believed.
Even if this were true...not saying it is, because I don't remember seeing where he said "God is a Spirit"...so what? What exactly (plus $1.50) does it get you, except a cup of coffee?
 
That’s a textbook example of taking something out of context to suit your needs.

So What did Einstein have to say in his letters about God?

“I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one,” he wrote to a man who corresponded with him on the subject twice in the 1940s. “You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist. … I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”


So… if Einstein lived today, he’d say he’s not a “New Atheist.” He wouldn’t be trying to convince you to shed your faith. Instead, he’d follow the Neil deGrasse Tyson approach to religion, which is to say he’d stay away from labels… but even he’d admit the idea of a Christian God who listens to your prayers and watches over your life is just flat-out ridiculous.

Suit my needs? Im merely going on WHAT einstein said he believed and did not believe. Im taking an objective stance here. Mayby your trying to ignore those parts he clearly believed in a deistic God because you got some "need" to suit.

And you want context.

"I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws"

This is a deistic God still even with the context in view.

"Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and this holds for the actions of people. For this reason, a scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a supernatural Being…Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe – a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive."

Still a deistic God.

“The harmony of natural law…reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.”

Still a deistic God despite the context.

"Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question i can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things."

And bang, once again, a deistic portrait of God, still within context.

Also, the qoute you gave, key word again, he did not believe in a, PERSONAL God. Why do i got to keep repeating this?

And when you say Einstein would refuse labels, are you saying he dont actually have a belief or a view on the subject? Because thats absurd.
 
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And it may be that our universe was not brought into existence by chance. But that doesn't inherently, necessarily, or implicitly demand that there must be a creator.

Yes, thats what that means.

Its either chance or a creator, theres no in the middle.

If you think theres a middle or another concept, do tell?
 
Even if this were true...not saying it is, because I don't remember seeing where he said "God is a Spirit"...so what? What exactly (plus $1.50) does it get you, except a cup of coffee?

It is true and i gave the full qoutes above.

What does it get me? That einstein is not on the side of pure atheists.

La la la la la, ha!
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
It is true and i gave the full qoutes above.

What does it get me? That einstein is not on the side of pure atheists.

La la la la la, ha!
Einstein WAS...he WAS...he hasn't been ON anyone's side, or AGAINST, since April 18, 1955.

And nor was he on the side of Abrahamic (or as far as I can tell, any other kind of organized) theism.

Whoopee! He was maybe a Deist (did he ever confirm or deny that? I haven't read all the posts in this thread, nor all of his papers and letters, etc.), or maybe a Pantheist in the Spinozan tradition...

And again, what exactly does that get you? To slap yourself on the back because, boy, you sure showed all them atheists a thing or two, didn't you?

Good for you.
 
Einstein WAS...he WAS...he hasn't been ON anyone's side, or AGAINST, since April 18, 1955.

And nor was he on the side of Abrahamic (or as far as I can tell, any other kind of organized) theism.

Whoopee! He was maybe a Deist (did he ever confirm or deny that? I haven't read all the posts in this thread, nor all of his papers and letters, etc.), or maybe a Pantheist in the Spinozan tradition...

And again, what exactly does that get you? To slap yourself on the back because, boy, you sure showed all them atheists a thing or two, didn't you?

Good for you.

Yes, he was a deist. Yes, hes not on the side of the abrahamic religions, yes, hes not on the side of atheists. He is, per all his qoutes, a deist.

Yes, i get to slap myself on the back. I sure did show those atheists, didnt i? I feel so good.
 
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