Was `Abdu'l-Bahá a minor prophets?

[Steinninn]

I bought a baha'i prair book. There were many prairs from The Báb, Bahá'u'lláh and to my surprice also from 'Abdu'l-Bahá. I was trying to fugure out why. And then I was reading that Aaron was a minor prophet. Is 'Abdu'l-Bahá also a minor prophet? He is at least treated as one, I'm just wondering if he's officially recognised as such.

John the Baptist is a minor prophet, but why isn't The Báb then also a minor prophet. Don't Manifestation of God come every 1000 years?

 

[Adib]

The Bab and Baha'u'llah are both major prophets; the 1,000 year injuction was made by Baha'u'llah, and since the Babi dispensation occured before Baha'u'llah's, the Bab is in good standing.

I doubt I could tell you for sure what `Abdu'l-Baha's exact ontological station was, other than the fact that he was the Center of the Covenant, the Infallible Interpeter of Baha'u'llah's Writings, and the Mystery of God. To quote Shoghi Effendi:

[`Abdu'l-Baha] is, and should for all time be regarded, first and foremost, as the Center and Pivot of Bahá’u'lláh’s peerless and all-enfolding Covenant, His most exalted handiwork, the stainless Mirror of His light, the perfect Exemplar of His teachings, the unerring Interpreter of His Word, the embodiment of every Bahá’í ideal, the incarnation of every Bahá’í virtue, the Most Mighty Branch sprung from the Ancient Root, the Limb of the Law of God, the Being “round Whom all names revolve,” the Mainspring of the Oneness of Humanity, the Ensign of the Most Great Peace, the Moon of the Central Orb of this most holy Dispensation — styles and titles that are implicit and find their truest, their highest and fairest expression in the magic name ‘Abdu’l-Bahá. He is, above and beyond these appellations, the “Mystery of God” — an expression by which Bahá’u'lláh Himself has chosen to designate Him, and which, while it does not by any means justify us to assign to Him the station of Prophethood, indicates how in the person of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá the incompatible characteristics of a human nature and superhuman knowledge and perfection have been blended and are completely harmonized.

Shoghi Effendi, The Dispensation of Bahá’u'lláh, paragraph 75

But there is nothing to suggest that `Abdu'l-Baha was a minor prophet. Although I do distinctly remember hearing stories of people referring to `Abdu'l-Baha as a Persian prophet during his trips to the West, and how he would tell people that this was not true; he was not a Persian prophet. Unfortunately I have no source for this tidbit.

However, you'd probably be interested to know that I derived the above quote by Shoghi Effendi from a website totally dedicated to studying the Baha'i convenant. Here's the link:

The Baha’i Covenant | The Covenant of Baha’u'llah

Best wishes and may God be with you.

 

[Steinninn]

Thanks for the link.

It seems that major prophet have always come with a few hundred years distanse. Do you know any other prophet that come at the same time like the Báb and Baha'u'llah? Well, they didn't come at the same time, but you know what I meen.

Guð blessi þig

 

[Adib]

Thanks for the link.

It seems that major prophet have always come with a few hundred years distanse. Do you know any other prophet that come at the same time like the Báb and Baha'u'llah? Well, they didn't come at the same time, but you know what I meen.

Guð blessi þig

You're quite welcome.

There are no major prophets that the Baha'i Faith recognizes in between the advents of Muhammad and Baha'u'llah other than the Bab. Chronologically (in order by time), it would look as follows:

Krishna
Buddha
Zoroaster
Christ
Muhammad
The Bab
Baha'u'llah

We also recognize two Arab prophets who are mentioned:

Hud (circa 2500 BC – 200 AD?)
Salih (supposedly nine generations after Noah, don't know the date)

One could count Abraham for bringing monotheism as well.

 

[arthra]

For Baha'is the Bab and Baha'u'llah are Manifestations of God..

Abdul-Baha's Station is the Servant of Baha, His Father Baha'u'llah.

He is not a Manifestation of God. In the Prayer Book His prayers are after those of Baha'u'llah and the Bab in that order.

Abdul-Baha is the Perfect Exemplar for us.

Shoghi Effendi states that "in the person of `Abdu'l-Bahá the incompatible characteristics of a human nature and superhuman knowledge and perfection have been blended and are completely harmonized"; establishes `Abdu'l-Bahá as the "Perfect Exemplar" of Bahá'u'lláh's teachings; asserts that `Abdu'l-Bahá "incarnates an institution for which we can find no parallel in any of the world's recognized religious systems"; and finally emphasizes Bahá'u'lláh's designation of `Abdu'l-Bahá as the "Mystery of God" (WOB 134, 143).

Encyclopedia Article: 'Abdul-Baha

 

[Steinninn]

There are no major prophets that the Baha'i Faith recognizes in between the advents of Muhammad and Baha'u'llah other than the Bab.

Doesn't this strike you as a bit strange?

 

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Adib

There are no major prophets that the Baha'i Faith recognizes in between the advents of Muhammad and Baha'u'llah other than the Bab.

Doesn't this strike you as a bit strange?

Simply put:

There were no other Manifestations of God which for us would be a "major prophets" mentioned in our Writings between Prophet Muhammad and the Bab.

Doesn't seem "strange" to me..

- Art

 

[Steinninn]

Simply put:

There were no other Manifestations of God which for us would be a "major prophets" mentioned in our Writings between Prophet Muhammad and the Bab.

Doesn't seem "strange" to me..

- Art

That's not what I ment. I ment that for all ages manifestations of god have come with a few hundred year "delay". And that The Báb and Baha'u'llah came at the same time. Isn't that like the first time this has happened in history? Isn't it more likely that The Báb was a minor prophet?

 

[.lava]

You're quite welcome.

There are no major prophets that the Baha'i Faith recognizes in between the advents of Muhammad and Baha'u'llah other than the Bab. Chronologically (in order by time), it would look as follows:

Krishna
Buddha
Zoroaster
Christ
Muhammad
The Bab
Baha'u'llah

We also recognize two Arab prophets who are mentioned:

Hud (circa 2500 BC – 200 AD?)
Salih (supposedly nine generations after Noah, don't know the date)

One could count Abraham for bringing monotheism as well.

i don't understand one thing. if you accept Qur'an as word of Allah then how could you say there've been Prophets after Mohammad (PBUH)? Qur'an makes it crystal clear, he was the last of all Prophets.


.

 

[Troublemane]

If theres an injunction against prophets occurring every 1000 years, what about Joseph Smith?

Couldnt a new prophet come which countradicts the 1000 year ban, and even reverses it?
:angel2:

 

[Adib]

i don't understand one thing. if you accept Qur'an as word of Allah then how could you say there've been Prophets after Mohammad (PBUH)? Qur'an makes it crystal clear, he was the last of all Prophets.


.

We have already held this discussion numerous times and a DIR forum is not the right place to hold such a discussion; if you wish to start up yet another topic on it then feel free to do so in the Religious Debates forum, but I would suggest that you please read the following threads first:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/bahai-faith/47238-question.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/bahai-faith/15976-prophets-do-bahais-recognize.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/bahai-faith/28537-question-about-bab-bahaullah.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/abrahamic-religions/63735-muslim-bahai-dialogue.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-prophets.html?highlight=seal+of+the+prophets

Baha'i Library Forum • View topic - Last Prophet?

And you might want to read up on this article:

A Baha'i Approach to the Claim of Finality in Islam

If theres an injunction against prophets occurring every 1000 years, what about Joseph Smith?

Couldnt a new prophet come which countradicts the 1000 year ban, and even reverses it?
:angel2:

We don't consider Joseph Smith a prophet, rather a teacher sensitive to the spiritual currents of his time.

Baha'u'llah made that thousand year injunction, therefore it only applies to the prophet that will come after him.

 

[Steinninn]

i don't understand one thing. if you accept Qur'an as word of Allah then how could you say there've been Prophets after Mohammad (PBUH)? Qur'an makes it crystal clear, he was the last of all Prophets.


.

The same could be said about Islam. If you accept the Bible wich sais that there is no prophet after Jesus, how can you accept Mohammad as a prophet. It's simple, you understand this line differently then christians do
"I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father exept trough me."
The Qur'an said:
"I am the seal of the Prophet"
And baha'is understand this differently then muslims do.

Does that clear things a bit for you?

 

[arthra]

That's not what I ment. I ment that for all ages manifestations of god have come with a few hundred year "delay". And that The Báb and Baha'u'llah came at the same time. Isn't that like the first time this has happened in history? Isn't it more likely that The Báb was a minor prophet?

Well it is we believe unusual that there have been what we call Twin Manifestations.. In a sense it amplifies the power of this Dispensation.

This is also one explanation why there are two stars on the ring stone symbol symbolizing the Twin Manifestations.

But the Bab had a relatively short dispensation lasting only from 1844 to 1863 or nineteen years and incidentally that nineteen years in the Baha'i calendar constitutes what is called a Vahid or unity so the Bab was not a "minor" or dependent prophet or our view.

The thousand years applies for us to the Aqdas where Baha'u'llah revealed it would be in no less than a thousand years that a new Manifestation would come...so it could be more than a thousand years.. we don't know for sure but it will not be in less than a thousand years.

"Bahá'ís, of course, cannot accept the claim of the founder of the movement, or his successor, that he is the equivalent of what we understand to be the Manifestation of God, even though he may have been inspired with the spirit of the age. It is clear in the Bahá'í Writings that such an august Figure is not to appear before the expiration of at least a full thousand years after the coming of Bahá'u'lláh."

Source:

UHJ letter: new.religions.html



- Art

 

[.lava]

The same could be said about Islam. If you accept the Bible wich sais that there is no prophet after Jesus, how can you accept Mohammad as a prophet. It's simple, you understand this line differently then christians do
"I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father exept trough me."
The Qur'an said:
"I am the seal of the Prophet"
And baha'is understand this differently then muslims do.

Does that clear things a bit for you?

no they hide original Bible from public.
he does not say 'i am the seal of Prophets' God says he is. i know Bahais understand differently that's why i asked a question.


.

 

[.lava]

We have already held this discussion numerous times and a DIR forum is not the right place to hold such a discussion; if you wish to start up yet another topic on it then feel free to do so in the Religious Debates forum, but I would suggest that you please read the following threads first:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-prophets.html?highlight=seal+of+the+prophets

dear Adib, i red your OP under this subject. i don't see anything that i disagree but still my question is not answered. would you -some time- explain it? this link above is fine and fits very well. so, anytime


.

 

[Adib]

dear Adib, i red your OP under this subject. i don't see anything that i disagree but still my question is not answered. would you -some time- explain it? this link above is fine and fits very well. so, anytime


.

I don't want to get into a nabi/rasul discussion; I'm truly, truly sorry that I don't have the patience to argue this subject any further than stating that Muslims believe Muhammad and only Muhammad is the seal of all the prophets, while Baha'is believe that every prophet is the seal of their own dispensation and that Muhammad sealed the Adamic cycle. We do not interpet the verse to mean that he was the last Messenger of God on earth for all time.

Again, you might want to read the last article I gave you by Fazel and Fananapazir. I have nothing else to say that isn't already covered in there.

 

[.lava]

I don't want to get into a nabi/rasul discussion; I'm truly, truly sorry that I don't have the patience to argue this subject any further than stating that Muslims believe Muhammad and only Muhammad is the seal of all the prophets, while Baha'is believe that every prophet is the seal of their own dispensation and that Muhammad sealed the Adamic cycle. We do not interpet the verse to mean that he was the last Messenger of God on earth for all time.

Again, you might want to read the last article I gave you by Fazel and Fananapazir. I have nothing else to say that isn't already covered in there.

it is OK, don't be sorry. btw this is Bahai DIR and i was not trying to argue

.

 

[Adib]

it is OK, don't be sorry. btw this is Bahai DIR and i was not trying to argue

.

Sorry I meant discuss.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

if you accept Qur'an as word of Allah then how could you say there've been Prophets after Mohammad (PBUH)? Qur'an makes it crystal clear, he was the last of all Prophets.

This isn't as "crystal clear" as you think it is!

Muslims often interpret the Qur'an as stating that Muhammad, being the Seal of the Propets, is the final prophet and that there will be no more Divine Messengers sent by God (or Allah).

In fact, this whole “last prophet” thing is based upon a misunderstanding!

There are several different explanations of the verse in the Qur’an saying Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets (a statement we Baha’is accept):

First off, there is a sense in which EVERY Divine Messenger is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the Seal!

Next, there are multiple Arabic words that all translate into English as "prophet."

One of these is "nabi," which refers to a minor prophet such as Jeremiah or Amos.

Another is Ras'ul, which means a major, religion-founding Divine Messenger like Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, or Baha'u'llah (our Founder). (And yes, Muhammad was a major--not a minor--Prophet.)

But the word actually used in the Qur'an is "nabi," meaning Muhammad was the Seal of the minor prophets! This says nothing whatever about the great Divine Messengers.

Muhammad is also the Seal in the sense that He was the last Messenger during the Prophetic Age, which began with Adam and ended with Him. The Bab then closed out that Age and opened the Age of Fulfillment, of which Baha'u'llah is the first major Messenger.

Finally, there is a sense in which the word commonly translated as "seal" also means "ornament," so that this verse of the Qur'an may simply be saying that Muhammad is the Ornament of the prophets! (Nothing whatever about any sort of finish.)

Best,

Bruce

 

[Adib]

I'm glad Bruce still has this juice left in him. It might be a good idea to continue this in the Religious Debates forum if lava wishes to discuss it.