Virtually Everyone is an Atheist in this Day and Age

[Guy Threepwood]

There could be all sorts of reasons why we haven't been contacted by "local" intelligent species. Maybe like us they haven't yet developed sufficient technology to detect signals properly ( bearing in mind that an alien signal might not be anything like what we think of as a "signal" ), maybe an alien civilisation is watching us and planning an invasion, maybe they have better things to do than visit a primitive species like ours, maybe they have destroyed themselves like we nearly did in the cold war, maybe it's just too far. And so on.

maybe, or maybe they just don't exist. It's interesting, a little ironic that atheists almost invariably believe in aliens- intelligent beings living and possibly watching us from beyond our perception- taking possibly unrecognizable forms- all based on zero evidence?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Actually, this very large, well organised, stable, hospitable galaxy has life on one planet. So perhaps it suggests that other similar galaxies will also have life on one planet.

Yes, and of course even our galaxy is unimaginably large, with billions of solar systems.
Our closest star is Proxima Centauri, 4.2 light-years away. The fastest spacecraft yet designed travels at
60,000 km/h, and at this speed it would take 78,000 years to get to Proxima Centauri, Over time we will build faster spacecraft, but journey times will still be in the hundreds of years.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

maybe, or maybe they just don't exist

The odds against other intelligent life existing are literally astronomical. Do some research on this if you don't believe me.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

there are billions of other people in the world, so there MUST be at least one other person exactly like you?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

The odds against other intelligent life existing are literally astronomical. Do some research on this if you don't believe me.

I agree, I doubt very much they exist, the universe is probably just too small

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I agree, I doubt very much they exist, the universe is probably just too small

I said "The odds against other intelligent life existing are literally astronomical" But don't take my word for it, spend some time and do some proper research on the science.
You say the universe is too small? You cannot be serious! Universe diameter is thought to be 93 billion light years, and one light year is 10 trillion kilometres. Please just stop for a moment and think about those numbers. Let them sink in.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I said "The odds against other intelligent life existing are literally astronomical" But don't take my word for it, spend some time and do some proper research on the science.
You say the universe is too small? You cannot be serious! Universe diameter is thought to be 93 billion light years, and one light year is 10 trillion kilometres. Please just stop for a moment and think about those numbers. Let them sink in.

mostly empty

 

[lewisnotmiller]

there are billions of other people in the world, so there MUST be at least one other person exactly like you?

Billions? We're not talking in mere billions. Not even close.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Billions? We're not talking in mere billions. Not even close.

just one as far as we know, 1 Earth, yes?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

just one as far as we know, 1 Earth, yes?

You're not going to be deliberately obtuse now, are you?
You were drawing a parallel between the possibility of life on other planets, and the likelihood of there being another person exactly like you.

Never mind that no-one is claiming we'd find life exactly like us for a moment, and consider that whilst there are 8 billion people on Earth, when looking at the number of planets estimated to exist that is simply not even in the same realm.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

You're not going to be deliberately obtuse now, are you?
You were drawing a parallel between the possibility of life on other planets, and the likelihood of there being another person exactly like you.

Never mind that no-one is claiming we'd find life exactly like us for a moment, and consider that whilst there are 8 billion people on Earth, when looking at the number of planets estimated to exist that is simply not even in the same realm.

there are maybe a couple hundred billion stars in the milky way, which we were referring to.

point being, out of billions of people, you only need to list a small number of mundane idiosyncrasies before you are utterly unique.
Because the improbabilities compound, multiply each other very rapidly.

The list of idiosyncrasies that make Earth utterly unique in supporting sentient life, is neither short nor mundane. I don't think the universe is quite large enough to assert that this happened more than once

 

[lewisnotmiller]

there are maybe a couple hundred billion stars in the milky way, which we were referring to.

We were? I thought we were talking about the universe.

point being, out of billions of people, you only need to list a small number of mundane idiosyncrasies before you are utterly unique.
Because the improbabilities compound, multiply each other very rapidly.

Yep. This is true. I highly doubt whatever life is found turns out to be too similar to us.

The list of idiosyncrasies that make Earth utterly unique in supporting sentient life, is neither short nor mundane. I don't think the universe is quite large enough to assert that this happened more than once

I wouldn't assert it. Can't prove it. Just a guess based on probability. If you flip a coin ten times, I'd guess you'd turn a head more than once.
But for what it's worth, there are an enormous amount of planets that probably can't support life, based on all our knowledge. In fact, most planets can't.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

We were? I thought we were talking about the universe.



Yep. This is true. I highly doubt whatever life is found turns out to be too similar to us.



I wouldn't assert it. Can't prove it. Just a guess based on probability. If you flip a coin ten times, I'd guess you'd turn a head more than once.
But for what it's worth, there are an enormous amount of planets that probably can't support life, based on all our knowledge. In fact, most planets can't.

we started with the milky way because we can listen to it and have come up with nothing. And that doesn't surprise me- I don't think the odds favor it anywhere else either. Obviously we can't nail down exact figures.

It is a specific testable falsifiable general prediction of theism though, to get back on that topic. That the universe was created for us. If we found our galaxy teaming with other sentient beings all thinking the same thing.. I'd accept the implication of that. I'm willing to accept the opposite implication also- which is the one actually observed so far

 

[Rick O'Shez]

mostly empty

Yes, it is mostly empty despite the billions of galaxies each containing billions of stars. That's because it's unimaginably huge. Anyway I think you need to go away and do some research on the science. And think on those numbers I gave you.

 

[McBell]

there are billions of other people in the world, so there MUST be at least one other person exactly like you?

Interesting your strawman.

Who, other than yourself, has made the claim "exactly" like?

 

[McBell]

The list of idiosyncrasies that make Earth utterly unique in supporting sentient life, is neither short nor mundane. I don't think the universe is quite large enough to assert that this happened more than once

One wonders why you must constantly move the goal posts?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Yes, it is mostly empty despite the billions of galaxies each containing billions of stars. That's because it's unimaginably huge. Anyway I think you need to go away and do some research on the science. And think on those numbers I gave you.

think on them long enough Spiny, and they are not all that unimaginable, the imagination is a powerful thing- especially when you have spent hundreds of hours tracking and photographing deep space objects.

but don't just think on one side of the equation, because that tells you nothing without the other side, the compounding improbabilities of a complex life supporting planet, far less sentient life on it, and the universe may start to look a little more cramped than it first appears

 

[McBell]

think on them long enough Spiny, and they are not all that unimaginable, the imagination is a powerful thing- especially when you have spent hundreds of hours tracking and photographing deep space objects.

but don't just think on one side of the equation, because that tells you nothing without the other side, the compounding improbabilities of a complex life supporting planet, far less sentient life on it, and the universe may start to look a little more cramped than it first appears

again moving the goal posts...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

we started with the milky way because we can listen to it and have come up with nothing. And that doesn't surprise me- I don't think the odds favor it anywhere else either. Obviously we can't nail down exact figures.

I'd like to see how you think we can listen for alien life throughout the Milky Way.

It is a specific testable falsifiable general prediction of theism though, to get back on that topic. That the universe was created for us. If we found our galaxy teaming with other sentient beings all thinking the same thing.. I'd accept the implication of that. I'm willing to accept the opposite implication also- which is the one actually observed so far

Fair enough. I don't agree with your statement that it's a specific testable falsifiable general prediction of theism. Not based on current technologies. I take your point though.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I'd like to see how you think we can listen for alien life throughout the Milky Way.



Fair enough. I don't agree with your statement that it's a specific testable falsifiable general prediction of theism. Not based on current technologies. I take your point though.

Back in the days of Poe and Verne, we wondered what sort of folk lived on the moon, invasion from Mars was a real fear, now we'd be delighted with a fossilized microbe- the fact that finding alien life has proven so difficult is part of the point- intelligent life doesn't just spring up any old place. Even given the incredible 'luck' of Earth, to support, nurture, yet challenge life repeatedly to near extinction, it still only happened once out of millions of species. i.e. we could find a million Earth like planets and expect to find dinosaurs on all of them before any intelligent life

Another factor is part of the Fermi paradox, just one single civilization, with technology little more advanced than out own, could have colonized the entire galaxy many times over by now, in which case they could have found our planet long before we started looking for them- but ancient alien theories not withstanding, this has apparently never happened. where are they?