Suraj: 'They cannot all be distinct entities and yet the same, can they?' Depends on what the person thinks. In hinduism, they can be distinct, same, or distinct and same, all at the same time.
You cannot have something to to be distinct and the same when it is manifest. An apple and an orange are different things when manifest, they cannot be the same. It maybe when they are unmanifest they are the same, or distinct and the same, but when manifest they are certainly distinct
The Vedas conflate the deities regularly, suggesting that they recognise them to be parts and aspects of the same thing. The fact that the Vedas do openly state this(e.g., the one is called by many names) does certainly validate that.
That is a very arrogant view to say that hinduism is Vedic religion only and there was no other belief in India, whether the Aryans were immigrant or indigenous. Vedic religion is just a part of hinduism which has nearly been replaced by other views (puranic).
I find it interesting that you say Vedic religion is a part of Hinduism. It is kind of like saying Christianity is a part of another religion, when Christianity is a religion itself. I am afraid you betray a very poor knowledge of Hinduim by saying this.
If I asked one to give the common features of Hinduism. They would probably begin by naming the pantheon of gods, karma and reincarnation, dharma, Yoga, varna-ashrama/caste system, Vedanta. The sources of these come from Hindu scripture known as Sruti. The sruti in turn are based on a hierarchy of authority.
3. The Bhagvad Gita
2. The 108 Upanishads(Vedanta)
1. The Vedas
There is nothing beyond the Vedas in Hindu history. Hinduism is a religion which begins from the Vedas, and derives its authority from that. Your suggestion of the Vedas being distinct from Hinduism is like suggesting Islam is distinct from the Quran or Christianity is distinct from the bible.
I must admit it is a rather strange and bizarre idea. As far as I am aware no tradition of Hinduism denies the authority of the Vedas. The traditions that did, Buddhism and Jainism, became separate religions and are known as Nastika(atheist) I just checked a Shivaist web site online, the Himalayan Academy, and there is a good article on the various sects of Hinduism, it says every sect accepts the Vedas as authority.
From Hinduism Today(Hindu publication):
"The Sanatana Dharma, or "eternal faith," known today as Hinduism, is a family of religions that accept the authority of the
Vedas. Its four principal denominations are Saivism, Saktism, Vaishnavism and Smartism. "
I think you are trying to argue for a house of cards here with its base missing.
Hindus worship Gods which the Aryans did not know. So it is clearly a meeting of two religious thoughts. Vishnu is just a marginal God in Vedas to whom just five or six hymns are dedicated, and there is no mention of Shiva, Rama, Krishna, and Durga (Shakti).
I think you are mistaken; very strongly mistaken. I have very strong doubts about your knowledge on Hinduism. Shiva is certainly mentioned in the Vedas one of the most famous verses that is recited from the Veda called the
Shiva Suktam, glorifies Shiva. Similarly a verse called the
Durga Suktam glorifies Durga. These are very well known hymns from the Vedas. I suggest you go to your local Indian CD outlet and ask for renditions. I own a copy of the Shiva Suktam myself.
A very strange thing for a Hindu to say. Are you really Hindu? The Shiva and Durga Suktams are the most popular and widely recited in Hindu temples.
Suraj: You would not be able to mould Hinduism in the way you want (probably Arya Samaji - that is a small section of hindus misguided by Swami Dayananda Saraswati). There is nothing more polytheistic than the Vedas. For myths, one does not need to go to Puranas, Vedas themselves are full of them; like Prajapati following Rohini and Rudra killing Prajapati with an arrow (that is an Orion story) or that of Vrishakapi, etc.
Aupmanyav I think you have some very mistaken views which are not at all in agreement with Hindu experts. The Vedas are not polytheistic.
Here is what Hindu experts have to say that are considered representatives of their religions. They are experts because they have studied all of the Hindu scriptures for years, have devoted their life to practicing it, and have written dozens of books and given hundreds of discourses arounds the world. Their expertise and authority is widely recognised around the world.
Swami Krishnananda
Swami Krishnanada has written an excellent article on Hinduism and the concept of god.
Here is an excerpt:
The earliest statement of the Nature of Reality occurs in the first book of the Rig-Veda: Ekam Sat-Viprah Bahudha Vadanti. "The ONE BEING, the wise diversely speak of."
The tenth book of the Rig-Veda regards the highest conception of God both as the Impersonal and the Personal: The Nasadiya Sukta states that the Supreme Being is both the Unmanifest and the Manifest, Existence as well as Non-existence, the Supreme Indeterminable.
The Purusha-Sukta proclaims that all this Universe is God as the Supreme Person - the Purusha with thousands of heads, thousands of eyes, thousands of limbs in His Cosmic Body. He envelops the whole cosmos and transcends it to infinity.
The Narayana-Sukta exclaims that whatever is anywhere, visible or invisible, all this is pervaded by Narayana within and without.
The Hiranyagarbha-Sukta of the Rig-Veda declares that God manifested Himself in the beginning as the Creator of the Universe, encompassing all things, including everything within Himself, the collective totality, as it were, of the whole of creation, animating it as the Supreme Intelligence.
The Satarudriya or Rudra-Adhyaya of the Yajur-Veda identifies all things, the high and the low, the moving and the unmoving, the good and the bad, the beautiful and the ugly, nay, every conceivable thing, with the all-pervading Siva or Rudra as the Supreme God.
The Isavasya Upanishad says that the whole Universe is pervaded by Isvara or God, who is both within and without it. He is the moving and the unmoving, He is far and near, He is within all these and without all these.
The Kena Upanishad says that the Supreme Reality is beyond the perception of the senses and the mind because the senses and the mind can visualise and conceive only the objects, while Reality is the Supreme Subject, the very precondition of all sensation, thinking, understanding, etc. No one can behold God because He is the beholder of all things
The Concept of God in Hinduism
Sri Aurobindo
Indian religion founds itself on the conception of the time-
less Supreme who is beyond name or form, but it does not deny or
abolish all intermediary forms, names, powers, personality of this
Divinity. Accordingly it does not begin and end with a colourless
monism or a transcendental theism. The Godhead is worshipped
as the All, the Universal Being; but Indian religion is not
therefore pantheism, since beyond the universality it recognises the
supracosmic eternity of the Divine Being. Indian polytheism is not
polytheism; for the worshipper of many gods knows that all Gods
are forms, names, personalities, powers of the one Being and all
Goddesses are powers of the One Divine Energy. Those ways of
Indian cult which most resemble a popular form of Theism, are still
something more, because they do not exclude, but admit the many
aspects of God and rest on and go upward to the philosophic truth
of the one Deity."
http://www.archive.org/stream/sriaurobindocirc032112mbp/sriaurobindocirc032112mbp_djvu.txt
Swami Dayananda Saraswati
One of Swami Dayanand's major arguments for going back to the
Vedas was that, in his own words
" the four Vedas, the repositories of knowledge & religious truth, are the Word of God. They are absolutely free of error, & the Supreme & independent authority ". The four Vedas are; Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Sama Veda, & Atharva Veda. To spread awareness of his movement and to revitalize Vedic knowledge, Swami Dayanand published many religious books. These include; Satyartha Prakash ( The light of Truth ), the Rig-Vedaadi, Bhasyya- Bhoomika, and Sanskar Vidhi.
Swami Dayanand preached many messages to Hindus during his lifetime. For instance, he preached that Hindus should worship just one, formless, God. He fought against polytheism by telling people the true meaning of the names of God, & established how all of them pointed at one & the same God- Paramathama, the Supreme Self. Further, Swami was " a voice against superstition, against unrighteousness, which reigned supreme in the garb of true religion, and against a foreign rule ".
