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Vaishnava Organizations/Institutions

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It was only small talk among Hindus and others too. Hindus too are amused at their belief in soooo manyyyy Gods and Goddesses. Go to villages and you will come across new Gods and Goddesses. It is fun.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
It was only small talk among Hindus and others too. Hindus too are amused at their belief in soooo manyyyy Gods and Goddesses. Go to villages and you will come across new Gods and Goddesses. It is fun.

:facepalm:
 

Nataraj Das

New Member
Namaste,
Not really anything to debate, but there is some stuff to discuss.

Firstly, I'm happy for you, in that you've seen through what seems to be a common trait amongst some groups of devotees. It seems so difficult of a breakthrough for some ... to realise that others may have a valid point of view, and maybe it's a good idea to listen. The root word of ignorance is ignore, after all. Ignore means to not listen, so ignoring means you stay ignorant.

I've seen bits and pieces of ISKCON for 45 years now. I liked the days when devotees danced on the streets, but back then when I went to a local temple, the proselytising turned me off. Then there came a period of deception when ISKCON devotees dressed in suits and ties out on the streets, pretending they were something other than who they were, raising funds under false premise. I had one encounter where the person lied (partly) about being an international charity, and hedidn't know I knew what the ISKCON tag on his suit meant. I didn't confront him, but refused to donate money, and walked away, losing more respect.

But then the long period of immigration started, and Indian immigrants started going to the ISKCON temples, not as members of ISKCON, but as devotees of Krishna. It was the only thing available. So that developed a variation in the temples, with more Indian influence wherever more immigration happened, and less in others where the converts were still the majority. Generally, it was a mellowing for the entire group. A person could go and not get proselytised at. I think it helped show the converts a humbler attitude, by example.

My last encounter with ISKCON was in India, where a small group was proselytising outside a large Murugan temple in South India, where Siva and Murugan worship is so popular. I found that insensitive. Most temple devotees just ignored them. I really felt like going up to them, asking them to drop the books somewhere, and coming with me into the temple to receive the darshan and blessings of Lord Muruga, whose Vel dissolves ignorance and ego. But I figured they wouldn't be able to do that as it would be straying from their purpose: to proselytise.

My city (Edmonton, Canada) has an ISKCON temple. I've been 3 or 4 times, but always on a weekday morning when it's empty and Panditji is busy. I took a fresh flower garland once, and just sat in front of the Gods for half an hour or so.

All in all, ISKCON has done more good than harm, by being out there, and providing people with an alternative to western faiths. I think some of the heavy proselytising was because of converts bringing along their subconscious minds with that, and being an exception to 'Hindus don't proselytise!' But it's all good now. You're an example to that.

Thank You for answer Vinayaka. I agree that ISKCON has done more good than harm, only they turn back on Srila Prabhupada's original teachings more and more since he is gone. Lord Murugan and Shiva are to be considered pure vaishnavas and they should be worshipped by anyone who wants to reach the Lotus feet of Krsna.
 

Nataraj Das

New Member
Dear @Nataraj Das ,

I think organizations with rigid structures or hierarchies and a missionary tendency may succeed in recruiting believers initially, but they seem to fail in keeping them for longer periods of time because they fall short on genuine spirituality. So if the group spirit in a rigid organization doesn't feel good for you, you are probably best-advised to leave those groups to go your own way. Best wishes.

Yes, you made the right point. It seems that these organizations in general are filled with random spiritual tourists, who came for a short vacation.
 

Nataraj Das

New Member
Jai Sri Kishna, Nataraj Das, and welcome to the forum.
I do not know how JWs became interested in Krishna. Why did they not want to hear from you but wanted you to listen to them?
Why is initiation important? People have different ways, there are ways other than Bhakti in Hinduism.
Why is guru all that important? We have excellent scriptures which describe all ways and everything.
Now, are you talking of ego of the other devotees or your own ego? And who are these 'pure devotees' - the JWs?

I met JWs when I was trying to distribute Srila Prabhupada's books on the streets and they were distributing their own books. I offered to them that we shall exchange each other's books and after that they invited me to their meeting. It was really nice there, despite the narrow-minded attitude. The talk about Krsna came naturally.

Initiation is important to honor the guru-parampara system, which makes sure that only authorised teachers and disciples are allowed to preach and represent the Lord. Without inititation you are just a self-called guru and your preaching will have no real blessing from God, and that means no real results. But we need to remember that the ritual of initiation on the outside is not that much important than the real initiation that happens inside of us. There are many initiated people who claim their rights to preach, but they didn't realize anything and behave like a spoiled children. These pretenders can be often very confusing and dangerous for the newcomers.

Guru is the most important thing on every spiritual path. Without a guru you will be always deluded by your mind which is a salve to Maya. Only a self-realized REAL teacher, who knows God personally, can show you the way to attain God and moksha (liberation). Even if you think that you have realized something and you are liberated, it is simply your thinking, nothing else. So we can not be our own gurus by ourselves, because we are and always be slaves to our mind and false ego.

I am talking about false egoism in general that is very usual everywhere we go. That means false identification with our mind and body, not knowing our true spiritual nature and original relationship with the Supreme Lord, which is the basis of our existance. Many people think they know something, but they know nothing in truth. Of course, I am also slave to Maya and I put my whole life under the Feet of my Master. I depend only on His mercy and He actually helps me successfully to realize the truth.

Pure devotees are called Uttama bhaktas. They attained the Grace of their gurus and are in touch with God personally. These liberated souls come to us, the conditioned souls, to help us realize ourselves and return to serving God. There are many false gurus and self-called bhaktas who mislead the others, so we need to be very sincere in our prayers so God may guide us towards the real teachers - that means finally back to Him.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thank You for answer Vinayaka. I agree that ISKCON has done more good than harm, only they turn back on Srila Prabhupada's original teachings more and more since he is gone. Lord Murugan and Shiva are to be considered pure vaishnavas and they should be worshipped by anyone who wants to reach the Lotus feet of Krsna.

That was always something that should have been kept quiet, in the spirit of harmony within Hinduism.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Dear Nataraj Das, I appreciate your views and thanks for your kind explanation. I am a Jivanamukta advaitist and atheist. Of course, Lord Buddha, Adi Sankara and dear Madhu Sudana have helped me to understand. Welcome once again to the forum.
Krishnarpanamastu.
 
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