Vagina Monologues

[Darkness]

Why is it that in our American culture a play, like the Vaginal Monologues, where an adult woman molests a thirteen-year-old girl is praised by (some) feminist philosophers/sociologists and is not consider to be a big deal?

 

[dust1n]

I've only seen it, not read it, and I don't remember that part, you don't happen to have the text do you?

 

[Darkness]

I've only seen it, not read it, and I don't remember that part, you don't happen to have the text do you?

The placed the relevant part in quotations below. The "Memory: 16 years old" was originally "13-years-old" until it was finally changed in 2002. I find it sick, disgusting and the antipode of feminism, the story in which a young girl is given vodka and taken advantage of by an adult woman. It's just freaking creepy and makes me want to vomit.

Memory: 16 years old
​

There's this gorgeous 24-year-woman in our neighborhood and I stare at her all the time. One day she invites me into her car. She asks me if I like to kiss boys, and I tell her I do not like that. Then she says she wants to show me something, and she leans over and kisses me so softly on the lips with her lips and then puts her tongue in my mouth. Wow. She asks me if I want to come over to her house, and then she kisses me again and tells me to relax, to feel it, to let our tongues feel it. She asks my mama if I can spend the night and my mother's delighted that such a beautiful, successful woman has taken an interest in me. I'm scared and I can't wait. Her apartment's fantastic. She's got it hooked up. It's the seventies, the beads, the fluffy pillows, the mood lights. I decide right there that I want to be a secretary like her when I grow up. She makes a vodka for herself and then she asks what I want to drink. I say the same as she's drinking and she says she doesn't think my mama would like me drinking vodka. I say she probably wouldn't like me kissing girls either, and the pretty lady makes me a drink. Then she changes into this chocolate satin teddy. She's so beautiful. I always thought bulldaggers were ugly. I say "You look great," and she says "So do you." I say "But I only have this white cotton bra and underpants." Then she dresses me, slowly, in another satin teddy. It's lavender like the first soft days of spring. The alcohol has gone to my head and I'm loose and ready. There's a picture over her bed of a naked Black woman with a huge Afro. She gently and slowly lays me out on the bed and just our bodies rubbing makes me come. Then she does everything to me and my Coochi Snorcher that I always thought was nasty before, and wow. I'm so hot, so wild. She says, "Your vagina, untouched by man, smells so nice, so fresh, wish I could keep it that way forever." I get crazy wild and then the phone rings and of course it's my mama. I'm sure she knows; she catches me at everything. I'm breathing so heavy and I try to act normal when I get on the phone and she asks me, "What's wrong with you, have you been running?" I say "No, Mama, exercising." Then she tells the beautiful secretary to make sure I'm not around boys and the lady tells her, "Trust me, there's no boys around here." Afterwards the gorgeous lady teaches me everything about my Coochi Snorcher. She makes me play with myself in front of her and she teaches me all the different ways to give myself pleasure. She's very thorough. She tells me to always know how to give myself pleasure so I'll never need to rely on a man. In the morning I am worried that I've become a butch because I'm so in love with her. She laughs, but I never see her again. I realize later she was my surprising, unexpected and politically-incorrect salvation. She transformed my sorry-*** Coochi Snorcher and raised it into a kind of heaven.
​

 

[dust1n]

I was speculating the opposite effect with Men and boys as well in another thread (until it got closed down).

It's truly hard to say, especially for the girl to be thirteen. I mean, clearly, the women does not regard it as a negative thing, and almost words as if it was her own will at the time to engage in those acts. But at the same time, the car situation since like the original exploitation of the young girl, kind of a.. provoked incident. I certainly can't understand praising it anyone 'praising' it (Maybe certain feminists think older women should teach younger women to be independent of men.) It might be arguable that the positioning was neutral, but that's still a difficult argument.

**** happens, and girl walked away seemingly okay, but it's definitely not a positive thing.

 

[Darkness]

I was speculating the opposite effect with Men and boys as well in another thread (until it got closed down).

It's truly hard to say, especially for the girl to be thirteen. I mean, clearly, the women does not regard it as a negative thing, and almost words as if it was her own will at the time to engage in those acts. But at the same time, the car situation since like the original exploitation of the young girl, kind of a.. provoked incident. I certainly can't understand praising it anyone 'praising' it (Maybe certain feminists think older women should teach younger women to be independent of men.) It might be arguable that the positioning was neutral, but that's still a difficult argument.

**** happens, and girl walked away seemingly okay, but it's definitely not a positive thing.

The author interviewed real women, but this was a fictionalized account. Therefore, it leads me to know other conclusion than statutory rape, by a female, is good for little girls. I am not really interested in justifying why statutory rape is wrong. I think we can take that as a priori for now. What it comes down to is that no University or theatre would accept a play that describes a 13-year-old girl being raped by a 24-year-old man as "a kind of heaven." Yet, exceptions are made when the rapist is a woman. Isn't that the opposite of the feminist ideal?

 

[MissAlice]

Anyone remember Lolita and Pretty Baby?

They're still a big hit in books and in movies.

Anyway I had no idea about a lady with a 13 year old. That's disgusting so I don't know what message it would be sending. I know most films and books love controversy and controversy seems to sell.

 

[Storm]

Why is it that in our American culture a play, like the Vaginal Monologues, where an adult woman molests a thirteen-year-old girl is praised by (some) feminist philosophers/sociologists and is not consider to be a big deal?

1) You make it sound like that was the plot, so ftr: there is no plot. The story in question was one of many.

2) Overall, the play was about celebrating female sexuality, which is why feminists praised it.

3) To get to the heart of your question, I think the statutory rape story wasn't condemned because it was about a trauma victim recovering her sexuality. Admittedly, this is the exception to the rule, but it's something that hits quite close to home for me, personally.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

...it was about a trauma victim recovering her sexuality. Admittedly, this is the exception to the rule, but it's something that hits quite close to home for me, personally.

The young girl was a trauma victim? That does seem to shift the perspective quite a bit. I have not seen or read this story outside of what was written here.

 

[Storm]

The young girl was a trauma victim? That does seem to shift the perspective quite a bit. I have not seen or read this story outside of what was written here.

As I recall. It has been a while, but I'm pretty sure.

 

[dust1n]

The author interviewed real women, but this was a fictionalized account. Therefore, it leads me to know other conclusion than statutory rape, by a female, is good for little girls. I am not really interested in justifying why statutory rape is wrong. I think we can take that as a priori for now. What it comes down to is that no University or theatre would accept a play that describes a 13-year-old girl being raped by a 24-year-old man as "a kind of heaven." Yet, exceptions are made when the rapist is a woman. Isn't that the opposite of the feminist ideal?

In my opinion, it doesn't relate to the feminist ideal. The push of hierarchy in this situation is one ageism. The only thing I can see it saying is that "women who rapes do so much gentler than me." Certainly, it's hard to imagine a particular feminist 'praising the women raping a child', but more so 'praising the overall message of the story.' Which might not necessarily indicate that it is ok for women to rape girls, but is stating that if that 24-year-old was a man, the perspective and circumstance of that girl would have been radically different.

 

[Darkness]

Anyone remember Lolita and Pretty Baby?

They're still a big hit in books and in movies.

Anyway I had no idea about a lady with a 13 year old. That's disgusting so I don't know what message it would be sending. I know most films and books love controversy and controversy seems to sell.

I never saw Pretty Baby, nor have I read Lolita beyond the synopsis of the story. You can only claim they are analogous if Lolita and Pretty Baby praise child molestation as something positive.

3) To get to the heart of your question, I think the statutory rape story wasn't condemned because it was about a trauma victim recovering her sexuality. Admittedly, this is the exception to the rule, but it's something that hits quite close to home for me, personally.

I do not doubt that it is possible a positive end can result from a sexual molestation. However, from a societal standpoint, I see it (whether positive or negative) as a violation of that child's rights. A 13-year-old is not in a position to understand the gravity of the situation or the possible implications and consequences that come with sex. Therefore, consent is impossible to give. From a pragmatic standpoint, it would be disastrous to open judicial consideration in deciding whether a sexual act was criminal. One of the major objections I have to child molestation in a situation such as this is that there are other effective methods such as psychological counseling that would be more appropriate and does not constitute a violation of rights. I am not a psychologist, but I think a woman being a good role model and friend to a little girl would be extremely helpful.