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Unitarian Universalism
- Thread starter Titanic
- Start date
Titanic
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
UU is a great denomination/church/religion. It can be a little dry, but still great.
Titanic
Well-Known Member
It was pretty strange in a way my vist to a church. Very different from any other church I have been to. I was thankful for the friendly atmosphere and me being accepted as a Agnostic. It kind of sucked I had to drive almost 3 hrs before I got there. I am not sure religion is for me though. I guess I will just stay a open minded Agnostic. Peace.
Huey09
He who struggles with God
I had the same experience although the church was close to me
Titanic
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I must be meant to be a Agnostic. Cheers.
Question_love_act
Humanist... "Animalist"?
What do you mean by dry? Because it "diluates" the spirituality in order to accomodate everyone?
applewuud
Active Member
Interesting thread...why do people, particularly atheists/agnostics, look for a church? What criterion do they use to decide if it's "for them"?
The classical church-seeker was looking for "the truth", e.g., a teaching/learning/spiritual exercise program that would help transform oneself into something "better", "more centered", "at a higher level", and the criterion was whether what the church taught rang true or revealed a new paradigm one hadn't thought of before.
Most people looking into a UU church/fellowship aren't looking for the "right doctrine", the right book taught the right way, or any absolute, revealed "way". They already have a paradigm that makes sense to them, and, while wanting to develop and expand their personal theology, mostly are looking for a place that reinforces what they already hold to be true.
In the case of humanists/agnostics/atheists, it's a relief to be in a community of like-minded people, especially if you feel that the larger society around you is constantly trying to sell you a load of B.S., whether it's about miracles that happened thousands of years ago in the desert, which you must believe in order to live for eternity in a happy afterlife, or what laundry soap will fulfill your destiny.
Or, are we looking for an organization that we can use as a tool to make the world a better place, where we can join with other volunteers to raise consciousness about the problems of society, and work directly to house the homeless, feed the hungry, and establish justice?
Or, are we seeking comfort in a weekly ceremony that reminds us of things beyond us, without trying to define too much what those are? A series of words and songs that reinforce the best in us?
I don't know...it's all driven by hope, I guess, for "the beloved community". Maybe people are just looking for a larger family/tribe.
As for "dry"--that's a pretty common reaction because most non-religious people see religion as deeply emotional, and historically, most UUs felt that the kind of emotional ceremonies of a Catholic mass or fundamentalist speaking in tongues could mislead us into superstitions that defied logic and science. UUs do a lot of listening to sermons, and comparatively little ceremonial rituals. Not because we "dilute the spirituality to accommodate everyone", but because we avoid certain kinds of spirituality to accommodate the rationalists and humanists. So, people expecting that kind of religious experience find it dry, e.g., "too much head, not enough heart".
For myself, I found the "dryness" of intellectual religion a relief after being jerked around emotionally by religions that actively discourage "too much thinking". I found the "heartfelt spiritual experiences" too often a cover for psychological manipulation, game playing, and self-deception. You can't get away with uncritical thinking in most UU communities I've been in.
But, to be fair, that's a description of 20th-century Unitarian-Universalism. Now, I think the movement has recognized the value of religious experience, the limits of pure reason, and so, depending on the individual church/fellowship/society (because some don't like the word "church") they're moving in a more spiritual direction.
What our religious institutions need to become in the next millennium still is unclear. They're nowhere close to what they need to be, that's for sure.
When it's worth driving three hours for, that will be the day :angel2:
The classical church-seeker was looking for "the truth", e.g., a teaching/learning/spiritual exercise program that would help transform oneself into something "better", "more centered", "at a higher level", and the criterion was whether what the church taught rang true or revealed a new paradigm one hadn't thought of before.
Most people looking into a UU church/fellowship aren't looking for the "right doctrine", the right book taught the right way, or any absolute, revealed "way". They already have a paradigm that makes sense to them, and, while wanting to develop and expand their personal theology, mostly are looking for a place that reinforces what they already hold to be true.
In the case of humanists/agnostics/atheists, it's a relief to be in a community of like-minded people, especially if you feel that the larger society around you is constantly trying to sell you a load of B.S., whether it's about miracles that happened thousands of years ago in the desert, which you must believe in order to live for eternity in a happy afterlife, or what laundry soap will fulfill your destiny.
Or, are we looking for an organization that we can use as a tool to make the world a better place, where we can join with other volunteers to raise consciousness about the problems of society, and work directly to house the homeless, feed the hungry, and establish justice?
Or, are we seeking comfort in a weekly ceremony that reminds us of things beyond us, without trying to define too much what those are? A series of words and songs that reinforce the best in us?
I don't know...it's all driven by hope, I guess, for "the beloved community". Maybe people are just looking for a larger family/tribe.
As for "dry"--that's a pretty common reaction because most non-religious people see religion as deeply emotional, and historically, most UUs felt that the kind of emotional ceremonies of a Catholic mass or fundamentalist speaking in tongues could mislead us into superstitions that defied logic and science. UUs do a lot of listening to sermons, and comparatively little ceremonial rituals. Not because we "dilute the spirituality to accommodate everyone", but because we avoid certain kinds of spirituality to accommodate the rationalists and humanists. So, people expecting that kind of religious experience find it dry, e.g., "too much head, not enough heart".
For myself, I found the "dryness" of intellectual religion a relief after being jerked around emotionally by religions that actively discourage "too much thinking". I found the "heartfelt spiritual experiences" too often a cover for psychological manipulation, game playing, and self-deception. You can't get away with uncritical thinking in most UU communities I've been in.
But, to be fair, that's a description of 20th-century Unitarian-Universalism. Now, I think the movement has recognized the value of religious experience, the limits of pure reason, and so, depending on the individual church/fellowship/society (because some don't like the word "church") they're moving in a more spiritual direction.
What our religious institutions need to become in the next millennium still is unclear. They're nowhere close to what they need to be, that's for sure.
When it's worth driving three hours for, that will be the day :angel2:
Titanic
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread...why do people, particularly atheists/agnostics, look for a church? What criterion do they use to decide if it's "for them"?
The classical church-seeker was looking for "the truth", e.g., a teaching/learning/spiritual exercise program that would help transform oneself into something "better", "more centered", "at a higher level", and the criterion was whether what the church taught rang true or revealed a new paradigm one hadn't thought of before.
Most people looking into a UU church/fellowship aren't looking for the "right doctrine", the right book taught the right way, or any absolute, revealed "way". They already have a paradigm that makes sense to them, and, while wanting to develop and expand their personal theology, mostly are looking for a place that reinforces what they already hold to be true.
In the case of humanists/agnostics/atheists, it's a relief to be in a community of like-minded people, especially if you feel that the larger society around you is constantly trying to sell you a load of B.S., whether it's about miracles that happened thousands of years ago in the desert, which you must believe in order to live for eternity in a happy afterlife, or what laundry soap will fulfill your destiny.
Or, are we looking for an organization that we can use as a tool to make the world a better place, where we can join with other volunteers to raise consciousness about the problems of society, and work directly to house the homeless, feed the hungry, and establish justice?
Or, are we seeking comfort in a weekly ceremony that reminds us of things beyond us, without trying to define too much what those are? A series of words and songs that reinforce the best in us?
I don't know...it's all driven by hope, I guess, for "the beloved community". Maybe people are just looking for a larger family/tribe.
As for "dry"--that's a pretty common reaction because most non-religious people see religion as deeply emotional, and historically, most UUs felt that the kind of emotional ceremonies of a Catholic mass or fundamentalist speaking in tongues could mislead us into superstitions that defied logic and science. UUs do a lot of listening to sermons, and comparatively little ceremonial rituals. Not because we "dilute the spirituality to accommodate everyone", but because we avoid certain kinds of spirituality to accommodate the rationalists and humanists. So, people expecting that kind of religious experience find it dry, e.g., "too much head, not enough heart".
For myself, I found the "dryness" of intellectual religion a relief after being jerked around emotionally by religions that actively discourage "too much thinking". I found the "heartfelt spiritual experiences" too often a cover for psychological manipulation, game playing, and self-deception. You can't get away with uncritical thinking in most UU communities I've been in.
But, to be fair, that's a description of 20th-century Unitarian-Universalism. Now, I think the movement has recognized the value of religious experience, the limits of pure reason, and so, depending on the individual church/fellowship/society (because some don't like the word "church") they're moving in a more spiritual direction.
What our religious institutions need to become in the next millennium still is unclear. They're nowhere close to what they need to be, that's for sure.
When it's worth driving three hours for, that will be the day :angel2:
I guess so... I am not going to join the church.
Question_love_act
Humanist... "Animalist"?
Not because we "dilute the spirituality to accommodate everyone", but because we avoid certain kinds of spirituality to accommodate the rationalists and humanists. So, people expecting that kind of religious experience find it dry, e.g., "too much head, not enough heart".
For myself, I found the "dryness" of intellectual religion a relief after being jerked around emotionally by religions that actively discourage "too much thinking". I found the "heartfelt spiritual experiences" too often a cover for psychological manipulation, game playing, and self-deception. You can't get away with uncritical thinking in most UU communities I've been in.
I understand now what was probably meant with "dry". It means intellectual. I've been to a very intellectual Protestant church (United of Church of Canada, the most liberal Church is Canada), so oddly my experience of Christianity has been more "dry" than my UU experience!
But I don't think my example is representative because the UU Church I go to has two important emotional factors that the Protestant Church didn't have : children and social action
so my point is that though most UU churches tend to be intellectual, it can vary a lot depending on your congregation.I've heard the idea that UU accommodate everyone and people often criticize us for that, but as you said it's a relief. It's a relief that many different people can have a spiritual experience together, instead of striving to have the same beliefs. It's a relief that brain and spirituality can work together.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
I just went to a service this morning. I came in late but I caught the message and some songs. There was a Jewish song, a couple of minutes of silence meditation, a quote from Gandhi and a message and song about peace. It was nice! Not dry at all.
Question_love_act
Humanist... "Animalist"?
My Church - and now I'm officially a member - recognizes most religious holidays, especially Jewish ones since our pastor was brought up Jew and there are many Jews (and Christians) in our congregation. So in a way I feel it's more. Universalist than Unitarian... Though it only has "Unitarian" in its name...
And that's a thing I never quite understood : Unitarianism (in UU Churches' names and beliefs) is more common than Universalism in Canada! And we are know for being inclusive and international... Weird.
- recognizes most religious holidays, especially Jewish ones since our pastor was brought up Jew and there are many Jews (and Christians) in our congregation. So in a way I feel it's more. Universalist than Unitarian... Though it only has "Unitarian" in its name...And that's a thing I never quite understood : Unitarianism (in UU Churches' names and beliefs) is more common than Universalism in Canada! And we are know for being inclusive and international... Weird.
applewuud
Active Member
I'm not speaking from research, but I think that Unitarianism (as a name for liberal churches) is probably more common in Canada because there were more Unitarian churches in Britain, and as a Commonwealth country people brought it over.
Universalism (as a separate church denomination) didn't take much root in Britain (although John Murray, a major early Universalist emigrated from there--read about him on Wikipedia), it started as an American movement. As a theology, some liberal Anglicans became essentially universalist anyway during the 19th century, so there was less reason to start a separate denomination. But, as I say, this is just shooting from my hip :golf:
Universalism (as a separate church denomination) didn't take much root in Britain (although John Murray, a major early Universalist emigrated from there--read about him on Wikipedia), it started as an American movement. As a theology, some liberal Anglicans became essentially universalist anyway during the 19th century, so there was less reason to start a separate denomination. But, as I say, this is just shooting from my hip :golf:
After 4 years of seeking, and finding nothing, I'm just going to go with the flow of things and have UU be the basis of my practice. Doesn't hurt that I've been going to a UU church for about 3 years anyway. Might even consider joining.
Troubadour
Member
As I understand it from my current research, this is exactly right.
Actually, as far as I know, here in the UK, there are no UU churches branded as "UU", they are all "Unitarian" congregations. (In name at least).
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
@ StarryNighshade - I feel similarly. Just wondering, have you ever visited a Quaker meeting? ....... they are very similar to UU on paper, but in the UK the service is held in silence .... it's really powerful. Some people meditate, some pray, some read the Bible or Bhagavad Gita. To me it seems a more spiritual version of UU. Just thought I'd mention it.
I've thought about it, but there are no Quaker houses where I live.
Out of curiosity, aren't Quakers inherently Christian? In that, a belief in the Trinity, divinity of Christ, and an omnipresent God are what the majority believe?
applewuud
Active Member
One of the things I DON'T like about Unitarian-Universalism is that as an organization, it is not international in the sense that Roman Catholicism is; it is American. We "affiliate" with organizations in other countries, but don't start UU churches outside the U.S. In fact, the Canadian UUs separated from the UUA a few years ago, a move that mystified me. There's an organization called the International Council of Unitarians and Universalists (http://www.icuu.net/membergroups/index.html), but in an age when multinationalism is a key aspect of a movement, it seems having a coherent, unified "branding" of liberal religion worldwide is something we should do.
Let's start a new thread about that.
Quakers and UUs are often fellow travelers because of common social concerns, but their church services are very different as you say...Quakers worship in silence with people from the congregation speaking if the spirit moves them. UUs are silent for perhaps a minute of meditation and a 20-minute long sermon from a minister is the focus of most Sunday services at most congregations.
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Northern Lights
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
Hi, not at all.
The Quakers are very much like the UUs in not laying down fixed doctrines.
I'm not a 'friend' but I have visited a meeting here in England, and the Silent Worship is really powerful. It's a beautiful way to spend an hour with other humans. I spend a lot of time in meditation practices, and the Silent Worship at the Quaker service is like 'social meditation' or 'external meditation'. The seats are laid out facing eachother, so you have to make occasional eye contact and once you get over a bit of discomfort, it's a very spiritual and profound experience.
At the first Quaker meeting I attended, there were about 20 people; about 5 were reading the Bible during the silent worship, there was a guy reading the Bhagavad Gita, a young guy with some Mala Beads meditating (or so it appeared), someone reading a magazine about motorhomes (!!), and the rest just sitting; sometimes closing eyes, sometimes not.
I would say everyone who considers themself spiritual in any capacity or outlook, should experience an unprogammed (known as Silent Worship in the UK Meetings) Quaker service at least once in their life.