cristheseeker
Member
now ive heared many christians say that the bible is the one and only, true word of god because not only does it not contradict iself, which is a miracle given its many authors, but it also contains prophecies, all of which are either fulfilled or will be fulfilled.
well, what about ezechiel chapter 26? its a prophecy that was never fulfilled and can never be fulfilled, as a matter of fact, even ezechiel himself admits this 16 years later in chapter 29 verse 17 and 18
here is an article i found on this
i dont have enough posts yet to be able to post links or pictures, sorry)
Prophecy in the Bible?
This article examines the famous prophecy of Ezekiel 26 about the destruction of Tyre.
Ezekiel 26 prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the city of Tyre. Ezekiel 26:14 says 'You will never be rebuilt...' Verse 21 says 'I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign Lord.'.
In chapter 29, Ezekiel conceded that Nebuchadnezzar never conquered Tyre at all, a fact confirmed by history. Verse 18 says 'Yet he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre.'.
How do people who believe the Bible is always true get around the fact that chapter 29 says that the prophecy in chapter 26 never came true?
They simply say that chapter 26 was about Alexander the Great and not Nebuchadnezzar, even though Alexander is not mentioned in Ezekiel.
Alexander the Great conquered Tyre, but Tyre was always rebuilt.
How do people who believe the Bible is always true get around the fact that Tyre has been rebuilt when Ezekiel says it was not rebuilt?
They simply deny that Tyre has been rebuilt.
I should point out that the Tyre of Nebuchadnezzar consisted of an island fortress and mainland colonies or surburbs. Nebuchadnezzar conquered the mainland parts, but he could not conquer the island fortress. Alexander the Great conquered the island fortress.
Here is an ancient description of how the island fortress of Tyre was besieged, using stones from the cities on the mainland, cities which had been rebuilt after Nebuchadnezzar conquered them.
The king saw that the city could hardly be taken by sea because of the engines mounted along its walls and the fleet that it possessed, while from the land it was almost unassailable because it lay four furlongs away from the coast. Nevertheless he determined to run every risk and make every effort to save the Macedonian army from being held in contempt by a single undistinguished city. Immediately he demolished what was called Old Tyre and set many tens of thousands of men to work carrying stones to construct a mole two plethra in width. He drafted into service the entire population of the neighbouring cities and the project advanced rapidly because the workers were numerous.
There is a link to this extract here
People who deny that Tyre has been rebuilt say that the modern city of Tyre is not on the original site.
Here is a picture of modern day Tyre.
Here is a picture of modern day Tyre, showing the many buildings right on the site where the old city stood .
Over the course of the last two and a half thousand years the coastline has changed slightly, so that the island is now connected to the mainland. As you can see, the (ex)island site and mainland parts are heavily built up.
Ezekiel said that Tyre would never be rebuilt and would never be found. Can you find a city in the picture? Did Ezekiel's prophecy come true, even if we grant that he was really talking about Alexander the Great when he mentioned Nebuchadnezzar.
The Encyclopedia Britannica says 'Excavations have uncovered remains of the Greco-Roman, Crusader, Arab, and Byzantine civilizations, but most of the remains of the Phoenician period lie beneath the present town'
So the present town was built on the remains of the Phoenician town.
The Tourism in Lebanon page states ' Near the market you will see a busy fisherman's port, in Phoenician times referred to as the "Sidonian" port because it faced north towards Sidon' and 'The walk to Area Three takes you through a residential part of Tyre called Hay Er-Raml or the Quarter of Sand. You are in fact walking on what once was Alexander the Great's causeway.'
So the port is in the same place as the ancient port and a residential part of Tyre is built right on the scene of the fighting.
Surely even Christians must believe that the town of Tyre has been rebuilt on the same site as the ancient town of Tyre?
For reference, here is the full text of Ezekiel 26
1.And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:
3. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.
4. And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.
5. It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.
6. And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
7. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.
8. He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.
9. And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.
10. By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.
11. With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.
12. And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.
13. And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard.
14. And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
15. Thus saith the Lord GOD to Tyrus; Shall not the isles shake at the sound of thy fall, when the wounded cry, when the slaughter is made in the midst of thee?
16. Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at every moment, and be astonished at thee.
17. How art thou destroyed, that wast inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it!
18. Now shall the isles tremble in the day of thy fall; yea, the isles that are in the sea shall be troubled at thy departure.
19. For thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;
20. When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;
21. I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD
well, what about ezechiel chapter 26? its a prophecy that was never fulfilled and can never be fulfilled, as a matter of fact, even ezechiel himself admits this 16 years later in chapter 29 verse 17 and 18
here is an article i found on this
i dont have enough posts yet to be able to post links or pictures, sorry)Prophecy in the Bible?
This article examines the famous prophecy of Ezekiel 26 about the destruction of Tyre.
Ezekiel 26 prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the city of Tyre. Ezekiel 26:14 says 'You will never be rebuilt...' Verse 21 says 'I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign Lord.'.
In chapter 29, Ezekiel conceded that Nebuchadnezzar never conquered Tyre at all, a fact confirmed by history. Verse 18 says 'Yet he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre.'.
How do people who believe the Bible is always true get around the fact that chapter 29 says that the prophecy in chapter 26 never came true?
They simply say that chapter 26 was about Alexander the Great and not Nebuchadnezzar, even though Alexander is not mentioned in Ezekiel.
Alexander the Great conquered Tyre, but Tyre was always rebuilt.
How do people who believe the Bible is always true get around the fact that Tyre has been rebuilt when Ezekiel says it was not rebuilt?
They simply deny that Tyre has been rebuilt.
I should point out that the Tyre of Nebuchadnezzar consisted of an island fortress and mainland colonies or surburbs. Nebuchadnezzar conquered the mainland parts, but he could not conquer the island fortress. Alexander the Great conquered the island fortress.
Here is an ancient description of how the island fortress of Tyre was besieged, using stones from the cities on the mainland, cities which had been rebuilt after Nebuchadnezzar conquered them.
The king saw that the city could hardly be taken by sea because of the engines mounted along its walls and the fleet that it possessed, while from the land it was almost unassailable because it lay four furlongs away from the coast. Nevertheless he determined to run every risk and make every effort to save the Macedonian army from being held in contempt by a single undistinguished city. Immediately he demolished what was called Old Tyre and set many tens of thousands of men to work carrying stones to construct a mole two plethra in width. He drafted into service the entire population of the neighbouring cities and the project advanced rapidly because the workers were numerous.
There is a link to this extract here
People who deny that Tyre has been rebuilt say that the modern city of Tyre is not on the original site.
Here is a picture of modern day Tyre.
Here is a picture of modern day Tyre, showing the many buildings right on the site where the old city stood .
Over the course of the last two and a half thousand years the coastline has changed slightly, so that the island is now connected to the mainland. As you can see, the (ex)island site and mainland parts are heavily built up.
Ezekiel said that Tyre would never be rebuilt and would never be found. Can you find a city in the picture? Did Ezekiel's prophecy come true, even if we grant that he was really talking about Alexander the Great when he mentioned Nebuchadnezzar.
The Encyclopedia Britannica says 'Excavations have uncovered remains of the Greco-Roman, Crusader, Arab, and Byzantine civilizations, but most of the remains of the Phoenician period lie beneath the present town'
So the present town was built on the remains of the Phoenician town.
The Tourism in Lebanon page states ' Near the market you will see a busy fisherman's port, in Phoenician times referred to as the "Sidonian" port because it faced north towards Sidon' and 'The walk to Area Three takes you through a residential part of Tyre called Hay Er-Raml or the Quarter of Sand. You are in fact walking on what once was Alexander the Great's causeway.'
So the port is in the same place as the ancient port and a residential part of Tyre is built right on the scene of the fighting.
Surely even Christians must believe that the town of Tyre has been rebuilt on the same site as the ancient town of Tyre?
For reference, here is the full text of Ezekiel 26
1.And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:
3. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.
4. And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.
5. It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.
6. And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
7. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.
8. He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.
9. And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.
10. By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.
11. With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.
12. And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.
13. And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard.
14. And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
15. Thus saith the Lord GOD to Tyrus; Shall not the isles shake at the sound of thy fall, when the wounded cry, when the slaughter is made in the midst of thee?
16. Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at every moment, and be astonished at thee.
17. How art thou destroyed, that wast inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it!
18. Now shall the isles tremble in the day of thy fall; yea, the isles that are in the sea shall be troubled at thy departure.
19. For thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;
20. When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;
21. I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD
