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Unemployment Insurance.....Tool Of Satan, Or Salvageable?

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Catchy title, eh? Well, it's a boring topic.
Of course I think more highly of Satan than the unemployment insurance system (UES). Satan is too smart & crafty to design something so dysfunctional. Now....on to the post:

I'm an employer & former employee. I've seen how people abuse the system by treating it as a paid vacation, sometimes years long. Others work cash jobs or businesses, while collecting. But aren't they supposed to stop collecting if they give up looking for a job or become employed? Officially, yes. But in the real world, the state (MI) doesn't really care enuf to do anything about it. Why should they care.....the employer pays the entire cost of benefits paid out & the state's massive overhead. So abuse is rampant. By now, you're wondering what can be done about this abomination by now, eh? Well, as you suspected, I have a plan.

Instead of having the employer be the sole funder of the UES, it's a co-pay approach, ie, both the employer & employee pay UES taxes. Each would pay about half the cost, but one's share would increase or decrease depending upon their individual employment history. If an employer has a history of few lay-offs, his contribution would be low. If an employee has a history of not being laid off, then his contribution would be low. If either had the opposite record, then UES tax would be higher. Thus, both parties have the incentive to avoid lay-offs. Employers already experience this, but now the laid off employee would face the prospect of paying higher taxes upon becoming re-employed.

There's one final advantage to this system: It's educational. It makes the employee aware of the larger picture, ie, that benefits have costs, & actions have consequences.
 
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Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Why should they care.....the employer pays the entire cost of benefits paid out & the state's massive overhead. So abuse is rampant. By now, you're wondering what can be done about this abomination by now, eh? Well, as you suspected, I have a plan.
If an employee has a history of not being laid off, then his contribution would be low. If either had the opposite record, then UES tax would be higher.
For businesses with 5 employees or less perhaps it is workable, but when you start talking about 100 employees then this model stops being a good idea. Also 50% sounds a little high for employees. Effectively you are cutting 50% of the benefit out from the start, and that is about the same as cancelling employment insurance. Now, I have never drawn unemployment, but I know its not innately evil. Lets talk about a lower starting percentage, say 20% and lets exclude scenarios where the employee has to borrow or is encouraged to borrow their part.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
For businesses with 5 employees or less perhaps it is workable, but when you start talking about 100 employees then this model stops being a good idea.
Why do you think company size is a factor?
...50% sounds a little high for employees. Effectively you are cutting 50% of the benefit out from the start, and that is about the same as cancelling employment insurance. Now, I have never drawn unemployment, but I know its not innately evil.
Think of it as only having a component of evil.
Lets talk about a lower starting percentage, say 20% and lets exclude scenarios where the employee has to borrow or is encouraged to borrow their part.
The percentage for employee (& employer) could range from near 0% (employee who hasn't collected UES payments, working for an employer who lays off many workers regularly) to near 100% (employee who collects UES payments often, working for an employer who doesn't lay off employees).
You think it's too high a cost to the employee? Good! This perspective (paying for the UES), which is shielded from the employee would now be visible.

Btw, employees wouldn't have to borrow to buy the insurance. It would be paid with each paycheck. And it would be tax deductable.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Why do you think company size is a factor?
The way I hear you explaining your idea it does encourage responsibility in employees which is good, but it discourages responsibility in the larger companies. Unemployment insurance is a stick to keep large companies partially responsible. Does it work? By itself no. Their structure gives them less concern about firing people, since they can drop a large number of people without much change in percentage; which is another pressure for them to scale up endlessly. Also the individuals working for them don't have the same deal that they do with smaller businesses. So what you are proposing is making unemployment insurance more expensive for those who work for larger companies and cheaper per employee for larger companies.
Think of it as only having a component of evil.
Ok. Lets say its a roofing company with 20 employees. Then its like acid rain. In a respectable research company that hires 1,000,000 temps its a hidden cost and barely noticeable. So its not evil for everybody.
The percentage for employee (& employer) could range from near 0% (employee who hasn't collected UES payments, working for an employer who lays off many workers regularly) to near 100% (employee who collects UES payments often, working for an employer who doesn't lay off employees).
You think it's too high a cost to the employee? Good! This perspective (paying for the UES), which is shielded from the employee would now be visible.
I think you've identified one of the things employers hate about unemployment insurance, but you're forgetting who will be regulating this system. It won't be you, and there will always be some caveat like somebody can write in 120% for your part. If you don't believe in unemployment insurance, then just get rid of it. Don't trust the system to establish fair guidelines, because it won't.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The way I hear you explaining your idea it does encourage responsibility in employees which is good, but it discourages responsibility in the larger companies.
They'd still pay based upon their own lay-off history. The only difference is that some cost is shifted to employees.
Also the individuals working for them don't have the same deal that they do with smaller businesses. So what you are proposing is making unemployment insurance more expensive for those who work for larger companies and cheaper per employee for larger companies.
I still don't see how scale causes disparate effect.
Ok. Lets say its a roofing company with 20 employees. Then its like acid rain. In a respectable research company that hires 1,000,000 temps its a hidden cost and barely noticeable. So its not evil for everybody.
I think you've identified one of the things employers hate about unemployment insurance, but you're forgetting who will be regulating this system. It won't be you, and there will always be some caveat like somebody can write in 120% for your part. If you don't believe in unemployment insurance, then just get rid of it. Don't trust the system to establish fair guidelines, because it won't.
I don't understand this reasoning. The "who" doing the regulating will be the same, but I'm proposing a different system with better incentives.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
They'd still pay based upon their own lay-off history. The only difference is that some cost is shifted to employees.
What is the benefit to capitalism?

I still don't see how scale causes disparate effect.
'Disparate effect' cool phrase. Where did you pick it up?
I don't understand this reasoning. The "who" doing the regulating will be the same, but I'm proposing a different system with better incentives.
What were we talking about? I don't remember.
 
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