Hi. In Abrahamic religions, I understand that believers say 'God has a plan which is beyond our understanding (e.g. strengthening mind of those around the dead, saving the dead from even harsher hardships, etc.).' when tragedies occur. I am wondering if there is any other ways for them to understand and process tragedies, or is this the only possible way?
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Understanding tragedies
- Thread starter yoheisato
- Start date
Thank you for the reply, but how can it not be part of his plan if the god is omniscient and omnipotent? The combination of omniscience and omnipotence means ultimate responsibility for everything. If god knows everything and can do anything, so preventing a tragedy or deciding not to prevent it, everything is according to his idea. What do you think?
I certainly do not think that I am the centre of the universe. Can you help me to understand your point? I have difficulties to follow your logic.
arthra
Baha'i
So Yoheisato.. I have a question for you.. What is "LYS"?
I'm unsure what you mean by "strengthening mind of those around the dead"..."saving the dead from harsher hardships".
Death is my faith is a release from this material existence... We no longer have to worry about our bodies..and there are aspects of the next world that we can only have a inkling. When someone dies they (the soul) ascends to the spirtual worlds.
As to trajedies sometimes they are seen as negative initially but can have in the long run positive aspects and as we are very limited in our personal perspective on this plane of existence we are at a disadvantage sometimes to appreciate the overall effects.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Hi yoheisato and welcome to RF.
The following two articles should/might answer your question/s:
Why does Allah (swt) not Prevent the Disasters and the Catastrophes But Allows Them?
How does Allah allow the afflictions if He is so merciful? why doesn't He prevent them?
Answer:
There are numerous wisdoms and an everlasting mercy behind the disasters and the calamities.
All troubles, calamities; briefly anything seeming outwardly unfavorable and evil are actually favorable and pleasing.
Allah (swt) tests man in this world. Diseases and the calamities are the requirements of this test
By means of the afflictions, Allah shows His own attributes and names on man. We reflect upon the Holy names of Allah (swt) and understand that He is “Shafii” by His giving shifa and curing the sick; and that He is “Al Razzaq” (The Provider) by His providing the whole needs of all creatures and feeding the hungry and also “Muin” by His helping the disaster victims.
Through sufferings, Allah (swt) warns His servants against sins and mistakes. Besides, He prevents them from conceit and arrogance.
Allah (swt) gives diseases and sufferings to His servants in order to bring them closer to Himself. Under sufferings and difficulties, the servant seeks help and strength for his impotence and despair. He takes refuge in the eternal mercy and the infinite might of his Lord and finds the everlasting compassion he needs.
If a believer keeps his patience when he endures afflictions, he will receive forgiveness of his Lord and get rid of his sins which will cause grievous torments in the hereafter.
In proportion to the degree of the diseases or the afflictions, Allah (swt) increases the reward (thawab) of His servants. The distress of a few years-illness and affliction may bring about million years’ weal and happiness of the eternal life. Allah gives the rank of martyrdom to His servants who die because of an incurable illness.
Furthermore, diseases and afflictions make man become aware of precious bounties.
Why does Allah (swt) not Prevent the Disasters and the Catastrophes But Allows Them? - Ask a Question to Us
This one is a more detailed article and elaborates on some of the points mentioned in the one above:
Mercy and Wisdoms Behind the Disasters and the Calamities
Why does Allah(swt) not prevent the disasters and the catastrophes but allows them?
Disasters and disorders seeming outwardly unfavorable are indeed good.
All troubles, calamities; briefly anything seeming outwardly unfavorable and evil are actually favorable and pleasing.
All creatures in the universe are divided into two parts. First is the group of the creatures which are beautiful, favorable themselves (Husn-u Bizzat); the other group is the group of creatures which are favorable by their conclusion. (Husn-u Bilgayr) For instance; health is good itself, while the illness is good by its results and conclusion. Because, by means of an illness, man can understand the value of his health and discovers his life once again. And his illness brings him a great deal of good deeds if he manages to be patient with it.
Allah (swt) tests man in this world. Diseases and the calamities are the requirements of this test
“Certainly, We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss of wealth, lives and fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to (As-Sabirin) those who patiently persevere.” (Baqara, 155)
By means of the afflictions, Allah shows His own attributes and names on man
For instance, a dressmaker shows his own proficiency and art on a dress. So he will cut and sew some parts of the cloth to shape it as a dress. Cutting the cloth, even though seems as if ruining it, is just a part of the dressmaker’s art and also a necessary and an essential action to show his proficiency.
Likewise, we reflect upon the Holy names of Allah (swt) and understand that He is “Shafii” by His giving shifa and curing the sick; and that He is “Al Razzaq” (The Provider) by His providing the whole needs of all creatures and feeding the hungry and also “Muin” by His helping the disaster victims.
Through sufferings, Allah (swt) warns His servants against sins and mistakes
For instance, if a child is about to make big mistakes that will cause serious damages, his parents or his teacher will give him some kind of warnings. If he pays attention, these warnings are definitely better for him than getting into trouble.
Likewise; for Allah is the merciful, He gives warnings to them through sufferings in order to prevent them from making mistakes and committing sins.
Allah gives diseases and sufferings to His servants in order to bring them closer to Himself
Let’s think about a child again. When he is in trouble, he runs back to his mother and takes refuge in her merciful arms asking for help for his frightened and weak heart. In the same way, under sufferings and difficulties, the servant seeks help and strength for his impotence and despair. He takes refuge in the eternal mercy and the infinite might of his Lord and finds the everlasting compassion he needs.
Allah (swt) through afflictions wants to save His servants from the hard torments of hell Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) says that;
“No fatigue, nor disease, nor sorrow, nor sadness, nor hurt, nor distress befalls a Muslim, even if it were the prick he receives from a thorn, except that Allah expiates some of his previous sins for that.” (Muslim)
If a believer keeps his patience when he endures afflictions, he will receive forgiveness of his Lord and get rid of his sins which will cause in the hereafter.
Through afflictions Allah (swt) prevents His servants from conceit and arrogance
A man forgetting the existence of Allah (swt) and his responsibilities of being a servant, just lives for this ephemeral world. So ignoring the death, he considers his mortal life as the everlasting. But when death comes, he has nothing in his hands to take with him to the hereafter.
However, through the disasters and calamities, man comprehends how much impotent he is even against a germ, remembers his debt of gratitude to the All-Compassionate Allah(swt), the only One who protects him from all the dangers and the only One who can save him from all his troubles.
In proportion to the degree of the diseases or the afflictions, Allah (swt) increases the reward (thawab) of His servants
Sometimes, just one hour illness equals to one day’s worship for the patient servants. The distress of a few years-illness and affliction may bring about million years’ weal and happiness of the eternal life.
Because there are two types of worship. One is the worship done by the prayer, supplication and etc; the other one is like calamities and the illnesses. By means of these, man realizes his impotence and performs a sincere worship and supplication taking his refuge in his All-Compassionate Lord.
Allah gives the rank of martyrdom to His servants who die because of an incurable illness
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was going on a way, he saw a thorny branch and removed it from the way and Allah became pleased by his action and forgave him for that." Then the Prophet said, "Five are martyrs: One who dies of plague, one who dies of an abdominal disease, one who dies of drowning, one who is buried alive (and) dies and one who is killed in Allah's cause." (The Prophet further said, "If the people knew the reward for pronouncing the Adhan and for standing in the first row (in the congregational prayer) and found no other way to get it except by drawing lots they would do so, and if they knew the reward of offering the Zuhr prayer early (in its stated time), they would race for it and they knew the reward for 'Isha' and Fajr prayers in congregation, they would attend them even if they were to crawl') (Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 11 :: Hadith 624 )
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Five are regarded as martyrs: They are those who die because of plague, abdominal disease, drowning or a falling building etc., and the martyrs in Allah's Cause." (Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 82)
Diseases and afflictions make man become aware of precious bounties
Through diseases and afflictions, man appreciates the value of the bounties; good health and comfortable living conditions which were never appreciated by man because of his arrogance though they were sent to him as gifts from the treasure of eternal mercy of his Lord.
Man appreciates the value of the bounties he has when he is about to lose them. And also things are known through their opposites. For instance, if there were no cold, heat could not be comprehended and if there happen to be no hunger, man would never apprehend the pleasure of food and eating.
http://askaquestionto.us/article/Destiny/mercy-and-wisdoms-behind-the-disasters-and-the-calamities
Sorry for the long post, I hope it helps you understand the issue better.
The following two articles should/might answer your question/s:
Why does Allah (swt) not Prevent the Disasters and the Catastrophes But Allows Them?
How does Allah allow the afflictions if He is so merciful? why doesn't He prevent them?
Answer:
There are numerous wisdoms and an everlasting mercy behind the disasters and the calamities.
All troubles, calamities; briefly anything seeming outwardly unfavorable and evil are actually favorable and pleasing.
Allah (swt) tests man in this world. Diseases and the calamities are the requirements of this test
By means of the afflictions, Allah shows His own attributes and names on man. We reflect upon the Holy names of Allah (swt) and understand that He is “Shafii” by His giving shifa and curing the sick; and that He is “Al Razzaq” (The Provider) by His providing the whole needs of all creatures and feeding the hungry and also “Muin” by His helping the disaster victims.
Through sufferings, Allah (swt) warns His servants against sins and mistakes. Besides, He prevents them from conceit and arrogance.
Allah (swt) gives diseases and sufferings to His servants in order to bring them closer to Himself. Under sufferings and difficulties, the servant seeks help and strength for his impotence and despair. He takes refuge in the eternal mercy and the infinite might of his Lord and finds the everlasting compassion he needs.
If a believer keeps his patience when he endures afflictions, he will receive forgiveness of his Lord and get rid of his sins which will cause grievous torments in the hereafter.
In proportion to the degree of the diseases or the afflictions, Allah (swt) increases the reward (thawab) of His servants. The distress of a few years-illness and affliction may bring about million years’ weal and happiness of the eternal life. Allah gives the rank of martyrdom to His servants who die because of an incurable illness.
Furthermore, diseases and afflictions make man become aware of precious bounties.
Why does Allah (swt) not Prevent the Disasters and the Catastrophes But Allows Them? - Ask a Question to Us
This one is a more detailed article and elaborates on some of the points mentioned in the one above:
Mercy and Wisdoms Behind the Disasters and the Calamities
Why does Allah(swt) not prevent the disasters and the catastrophes but allows them?
Disasters and disorders seeming outwardly unfavorable are indeed good.
All troubles, calamities; briefly anything seeming outwardly unfavorable and evil are actually favorable and pleasing.
All creatures in the universe are divided into two parts. First is the group of the creatures which are beautiful, favorable themselves (Husn-u Bizzat); the other group is the group of creatures which are favorable by their conclusion. (Husn-u Bilgayr) For instance; health is good itself, while the illness is good by its results and conclusion. Because, by means of an illness, man can understand the value of his health and discovers his life once again. And his illness brings him a great deal of good deeds if he manages to be patient with it.
Allah (swt) tests man in this world. Diseases and the calamities are the requirements of this test
“Certainly, We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss of wealth, lives and fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to (As-Sabirin) those who patiently persevere.” (Baqara, 155)
By means of the afflictions, Allah shows His own attributes and names on man
For instance, a dressmaker shows his own proficiency and art on a dress. So he will cut and sew some parts of the cloth to shape it as a dress. Cutting the cloth, even though seems as if ruining it, is just a part of the dressmaker’s art and also a necessary and an essential action to show his proficiency.
Likewise, we reflect upon the Holy names of Allah (swt) and understand that He is “Shafii” by His giving shifa and curing the sick; and that He is “Al Razzaq” (The Provider) by His providing the whole needs of all creatures and feeding the hungry and also “Muin” by His helping the disaster victims.
Through sufferings, Allah (swt) warns His servants against sins and mistakes
For instance, if a child is about to make big mistakes that will cause serious damages, his parents or his teacher will give him some kind of warnings. If he pays attention, these warnings are definitely better for him than getting into trouble.
Likewise; for Allah is the merciful, He gives warnings to them through sufferings in order to prevent them from making mistakes and committing sins.
Allah gives diseases and sufferings to His servants in order to bring them closer to Himself
Let’s think about a child again. When he is in trouble, he runs back to his mother and takes refuge in her merciful arms asking for help for his frightened and weak heart. In the same way, under sufferings and difficulties, the servant seeks help and strength for his impotence and despair. He takes refuge in the eternal mercy and the infinite might of his Lord and finds the everlasting compassion he needs.
Allah (swt) through afflictions wants to save His servants from the hard torments of hell Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) says that;
“No fatigue, nor disease, nor sorrow, nor sadness, nor hurt, nor distress befalls a Muslim, even if it were the prick he receives from a thorn, except that Allah expiates some of his previous sins for that.” (Muslim)
If a believer keeps his patience when he endures afflictions, he will receive forgiveness of his Lord and get rid of his sins which will cause in the hereafter.
Through afflictions Allah (swt) prevents His servants from conceit and arrogance
A man forgetting the existence of Allah (swt) and his responsibilities of being a servant, just lives for this ephemeral world. So ignoring the death, he considers his mortal life as the everlasting. But when death comes, he has nothing in his hands to take with him to the hereafter.
However, through the disasters and calamities, man comprehends how much impotent he is even against a germ, remembers his debt of gratitude to the All-Compassionate Allah(swt), the only One who protects him from all the dangers and the only One who can save him from all his troubles.
In proportion to the degree of the diseases or the afflictions, Allah (swt) increases the reward (thawab) of His servants
Sometimes, just one hour illness equals to one day’s worship for the patient servants. The distress of a few years-illness and affliction may bring about million years’ weal and happiness of the eternal life.
Because there are two types of worship. One is the worship done by the prayer, supplication and etc; the other one is like calamities and the illnesses. By means of these, man realizes his impotence and performs a sincere worship and supplication taking his refuge in his All-Compassionate Lord.
Allah gives the rank of martyrdom to His servants who die because of an incurable illness
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was going on a way, he saw a thorny branch and removed it from the way and Allah became pleased by his action and forgave him for that." Then the Prophet said, "Five are martyrs: One who dies of plague, one who dies of an abdominal disease, one who dies of drowning, one who is buried alive (and) dies and one who is killed in Allah's cause." (The Prophet further said, "If the people knew the reward for pronouncing the Adhan and for standing in the first row (in the congregational prayer) and found no other way to get it except by drawing lots they would do so, and if they knew the reward of offering the Zuhr prayer early (in its stated time), they would race for it and they knew the reward for 'Isha' and Fajr prayers in congregation, they would attend them even if they were to crawl') (Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 11 :: Hadith 624 )
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Five are regarded as martyrs: They are those who die because of plague, abdominal disease, drowning or a falling building etc., and the martyrs in Allah's Cause." (Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 82)
Diseases and afflictions make man become aware of precious bounties
Through diseases and afflictions, man appreciates the value of the bounties; good health and comfortable living conditions which were never appreciated by man because of his arrogance though they were sent to him as gifts from the treasure of eternal mercy of his Lord.
Man appreciates the value of the bounties he has when he is about to lose them. And also things are known through their opposites. For instance, if there were no cold, heat could not be comprehended and if there happen to be no hunger, man would never apprehend the pleasure of food and eating.
http://askaquestionto.us/article/Destiny/mercy-and-wisdoms-behind-the-disasters-and-the-calamities
Sorry for the long post, I hope it helps you understand the issue better.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
God does not cause such things to occur, but he does permit them for the reason that mankind choose to live independently from him.
James 1:13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone
If he were governing our lives and we were submitting to him, we would not have such tragedies happening because he would take control of the natural forces and keep them running smoothly.
Isaiah 48:18 O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea
But mankind do not listen to God, they do not submit to him and they choose to have ruling over them people and men who seek self glory. If you want those sorts of people ruling you then you need to ask them to protect you from calamities because they are the ones you are putting your trust in.
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Levite
Higher and Higher
I can't speak for other religions, but there are other ways in Jewish thought, though many indirectly lead back to similar ultimate places.
For us, it is less that God plans every specific occurrence, and more that what we experience is usually indirectly a result of God's will. We do generally believe that God has a plan, but we also generally believe that He created human beings to have free will, and that He created the universe to operate according to certain natural laws.
The majority of tragedies in human life are caused either by the actions (or inaction) of other human beings, or by natural processes in the universe (for example, movement of the earth's crust generates earthquakes and tsunamis, which may result in the tragic deaths of people; or people may die of diseases, which come from sharing a biosphere with microorganisms that can be harmful to us). We tend not to believe that God usually plans for certain people to come to grief in certain ways; but we do tend to believe that God understood that in giving human beings free will, and in creating a universe of entropic systems, evolution and natural selection, and incorporating a certain amount of chaos and randomness, it was an inevitable consequence that innocent people would sometimes come to harm.
Where belief in God's plan really comes into the picture is in having faith that, of all potential universes that He might have created, He chose to make this one; therefore, we choose to believe that there must be good reasons why the risks we face every day living in this universe were ones He deemed worthwhile.
But ultimately, this kind of remote theology and cosmological metaphysics is speculation. We may believe these things, but they are abstract, and make little difference when one is in the midst of coping with loss and suffering. Practically speaking, we know that we do not have real answers. We cannot justify suffering, or even adequately explain it. We hope that faith that God loves us and feels our pain will help in tough moments, but we are aware that all too often it does not. All we can really do is be there for each other in moments of need; and in the end, that may be what God truly wants from us.
It is my own faith system as summarized here:
What’s libraism? | Libraism by Yohei Sato (LYS)
An example can be like this:
There is a very bad guy. He does all sorts of bad things. But one day, his beloved child dies in a car accident. He tries to understand and accept this death, reasoning that it happened because he led a bad life. He repents and changes to a good guy.
Yes, I also view death as a relief / release from this tough world.
But we can also take other tragedy examples. For instance, in Africa, there are kids who are forced to be child soldiers. As a part of training to follow orders, they get instructions to kill their parents. This world is full of child sexual abuses, and so on. Can we honestly think and say that all these things are 'necessary' in god's plan and that they are 'positive' in the long run? Do you really believe that?
Dear eselam, thank you for the article. But, I'd like to go back to my point about child soldiers discussed earlier.
So, does it mean that infants being forced to be child soldiers and kill their parents is necessary and positive in the long run? If I understand right, this is basically what the article is saying.
If god's plan is beyond our humble understanding, and if we are still to believe in such a god, isn't it a blind faith? How can it not be a blind faith because it is believing without understanding?
Also, if god is omnipotent, why can he not just create perfect mankind? If he makes perfect mankind from the beginning, there should be no need to forge mankind through hardships, surely?
I am sorry for being a bit harsh, but I just have lots of WHYs... God seems so perverted if he intentionally makes mankind faulty ('intentionally' because he is omnipotent enough to make good mankind from the beginning -- everything is according to his plan, right?) and give tribulations to forge. Is this process suppose to be fun to him?
So, does it mean that infants being forced to be child soldiers and kill their parents is necessary and positive in the long run? If I understand right, this is basically what the article is saying.
If god's plan is beyond our humble understanding, and if we are still to believe in such a god, isn't it a blind faith? How can it not be a blind faith because it is believing without understanding?
Also, if god is omnipotent, why can he not just create perfect mankind? If he makes perfect mankind from the beginning, there should be no need to forge mankind through hardships, surely?
I am sorry for being a bit harsh, but I just have lots of WHYs... God seems so perverted if he intentionally makes mankind faulty ('intentionally' because he is omnipotent enough to make good mankind from the beginning -- everything is according to his plan, right?) and give tribulations to forge. Is this process suppose to be fun to him?
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
What do you mean child soldiers? My post never mentions those words.
I know. But my question is a general and fundamental one, and it encompasses all kinds of tragedies. Death of a beloved one was merely one example.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
So what do you mean exactly? You got me by surprise with your previous post.
Sorry that I got you by surprise.
When I said this, I was referring to the post # 10.
Anyway, my question is whether you think that the article you quoted is also applicable to child soldiers' case. In short, there is no other way than to process tragedies by thinking that god has a plan which may be beyond our understanding?
I guess my subsequent questions are now also as follows:
This question means so much to me. I'd like to know if/how I am wrong in this opinion, and am looking forward to knowing different ideas and inspirations that the discussion can bring.
arthra
Baha'i
Yoheisato..
Thanks for your post above in response to my question and your kind replies..
Yoheisato wrote:
For instance, in Africa, there are kids who are forced to be child soldiers. As a part of training to follow orders, they get instructions to kill their parents. This world is full of child sexual abuses, and so on. Can we honestly think and say that all these things are 'necessary' in god's plan and that they are 'positive' in the long run? Do you really believe that?
My comment:
Some people like to blame God or the devil for the condition of the world.. In my faith it is part of God's plan that we human beings have a responsibility to abolish prejudice, end war, reduce the extremes of wealth and poverty and establish the equality of men and women...and there's more, but if we set about doing something along the lines outlined above we will be fulfilling part of God's plan for this age.
Best wishes!
Thanks for your post above in response to my question and your kind replies..
Yoheisato wrote:
For instance, in Africa, there are kids who are forced to be child soldiers. As a part of training to follow orders, they get instructions to kill their parents. This world is full of child sexual abuses, and so on. Can we honestly think and say that all these things are 'necessary' in god's plan and that they are 'positive' in the long run? Do you really believe that?
My comment:
Some people like to blame God or the devil for the condition of the world.. In my faith it is part of God's plan that we human beings have a responsibility to abolish prejudice, end war, reduce the extremes of wealth and poverty and establish the equality of men and women...and there's more, but if we set about doing something along the lines outlined above we will be fulfilling part of God's plan for this age.
Best wishes!
Dear Peg, I am referring to your post no. 8. I am going a little bit off the topic (although deeply related), but what do you think about this?
A politician does something good. People praise her. The same politician does something bad. This time, people blame her.
(We can assume that this politician is a president of a state, for example.)
So far, it makes sense, right? It does to me, at least. It sounds perfectly normal. But from here, things become hard to understand for me...:
When a good thing happens, people praise god. When a bad thing happens, people pray to god for help.
???
God is in control, he has all the power, he knows everything, he has a plan... Why does he get all the credits, but credits ONLY?
Another issue:
Let's say that Italy and Poland go on a war. Italian christians pray god for victory. Polish christians pray to the same god for victory.
???
Surely, something is wrong here and there?
A politician does something good. People praise her. The same politician does something bad. This time, people blame her.
(We can assume that this politician is a president of a state, for example.)
So far, it makes sense, right? It does to me, at least. It sounds perfectly normal. But from here, things become hard to understand for me...:
When a good thing happens, people praise god. When a bad thing happens, people pray to god for help.
???
God is in control, he has all the power, he knows everything, he has a plan... Why does he get all the credits, but credits ONLY?
Another issue:
Let's say that Italy and Poland go on a war. Italian christians pray god for victory. Polish christians pray to the same god for victory.
???
Surely, something is wrong here and there?
Thank you for your reply.
I really like the points you make and the way you hold your faith. It's great.
If possible, I'd like to know how you view the compatibility of omniscience and free will. In other words, god is omniscient, he knows all the future, the future is fixed, so is there any room for free will?
The same goes for chaos and randomness mentioned. How are they compatible with omniscience?
I think they can be answered in one way or another, but I am curious to know your view, if you don't mind.
Levite
Higher and Higher
Thanks.
While Judaism has historically been quite firm on embracing both human free will and divine omniscience, there has actually been very little agreement amongst Jewish authorities about precisely how to reconcile those two ideas. Or, really, about any questions....
Of the various answers that have been proposed, the one that I feel is most compelling is that omniscience is a description of capability, not a description of choice. In other words, God is capable of knowing all, but God chooses not to know certain things-- those things being the actions resulting from human free will. I think of it as sort of the ultimate, supernal version of willing suspension of disbelief as we experience it when watching a play or a movie.
One of my best friends, who also likes this answer, says he envisions it as God having access to the full spectrum of potential outcomes of all choices: like seeing a massive flowchart of quantum realities splitting off of each minute possible choice or act that occurs in the universe. But God chooses to "hide" from Himself which of these outcomes will become the "dominant" track of our reality until after the choices have been made. I don't know if I envision it precisely in that way, but it's an interesting idea, I think.
I am aware, of course, that this answer is, in its way, just as flawed as any other answer. But my guess is that the true reconciliation of these things is a mystery unlikely to be solved while we exist on this plane of being. So for me, I am satisfied picking the answer that gets me through the night, so to speak.
As for randomness, I think random natural events are random within the created universe, but I tend to believe that God is capable of seeing pattern in them, or simply chooses to be aware of their outcomes. I think the self-contraction of His omniscience is essentially the supernal form of the gift of free will, but doesn't extend past human free will.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Sounds kind of like the 5th dimension guy from MIB3. He could see the past, present, and future, as well as all outcomes of every choice made, but sometimes chose only to view the outcomes he liked best, hoping that was the choice made.