Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[Ajax]

a) If you don't accept what Scripture clearly says, there is no point in discussing anything with you. Example: "Your spiritual sight needs servicing and new glasses."

b) If you can't accept what the Bible clearly says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and claim that there are contradictions because you lack understanding, you need to read it more carefully.

I won't communicate with anyone who indulges in insults. You're on "ignore".

You just confirmed my message #1,275 thank you..

 

[Trailblazer]

a) If you don't accept what Scripture clearly says, there is no point in discussing anything with you. Example: "Your spiritual sight needs servicing and new glasses."

b) If you can't accept what the Bible clearly says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and claim that there are contradictions because you lack understanding, you need to read it more carefully.

The Bible does not CLEARLY SAY anything, it has to be interpreted by people who assign the meanings to the words. It is the same with every book.
You think the verse means X and someone else thinks it means Y and someone else thinks it means Z. That is why we disagree.

Unless you can understand that there is no point posting to people. What you say only become repetitions of what you have already said over and over again. It is not a discussion, it is a pronouncement.

 

[Trailblazer]

"If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:7 That's what the Bible clearly says, so why should I accept what you say?

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Attributes of God, but they have not SEEN GOD.

Do you know what "I and the Father are one" means? It means they are ONE! Not two, not identical, not that they "share the Holy Spirit (whatever that means), but one.

What is the meaning of the word "ONE" in the Bible?

In the Bible it talks of Jesus being one with the Father John 10:30 but also says that we should be one with them John 17:11. In the Bible's original Greek text, is the same word used for both, or ...

christianity.stackexchange.com

“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of the Father. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one. Jesus also shares some (but not all) the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one.

 

[Trailblazer]

Logos: The Lexham Bible Dictionary defines logos (λόγος) as “a concept word in the Bible symbolic of the nature and function of Jesus Christ.

logos, in ancient Greek philosophy and early Christian theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning. Although the concept is also found in Indian, Egyptian, and Persian philosophical and theological systems, it became particularly significant in Christian writings and doctrines as a vehicle for conceiving the role of Jesus Christ as the principle of God active in the creation and the continuous structuring of the cosmos and in revealing the divine plan of salvation to human beings. It thus underlies the basic Christian doctrine of the preexistence of Jesus..........

The identification of Jesus with the logos, which is implied in various places in the New Testament but stated specifically in The Gospel According to John, was further developed in the early church but more on the basis of Greek philosophical ideas than on Old Testament motifs. This development was dictated by attempts made by early Christian theologians and apologists to express the Christian faith in terms that would be intelligible to the Hellenistic world and to impress their hearers with the view that Christianity was superior to, or heir to, all that was best in pagan philosophy. Thus, in their apologies and polemical works, the early Apostolic (Christian) Fathers stated that Christ, as the preexistent logos, (1) reveals the Father to humankind and is the subject of the Old Testament manifestations of God; (2) is the divine reason in which the whole human race shares, so that Heraclitus and others who lived with reason were Christians before Christ; and (3) is the divine will and word by which the worlds were framed.

Logos | Definition, History, & Facts

 

[Trailblazer]

It's sad that you don't understand what the Bible clearly says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

It's sad that you don't understand what the Bible clearly says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are all aspects of the one God.

aspect a particular part or feature of something
Definitions from Oxford Languages

The Son is not an aspect of God, He is a Manifestation of God.
The Holy Spirit is not an aspect of God, it is the Bounty of God that flows from God to man through the Manifestation of God.

There is only one God.

That is correct, and that one God is not divided into three parts.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The Bible does not CLEARLY SAY anything, it has to be interpreted by people who assign the meanings to the words. It is the same with every book.
You think the verse means X and someone else thinks it means Y and someone else thinks it means Z. That is why we disagree.

If the Bible were clear enough for Christians to agree on a proper interpretation, then they wouldn't be as divided as they are and have been since the beginning of Christianity. There would be one unified universal Christian church, not Messianic Jews, Anglicans, Catholics, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a vast assortment of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Seventh-day Adventist, Non-Denominational, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches.

 

[Ajax]

So should I believe you or Jesus and/or John?

Jesus said, in John 14:7, "If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Yes, this means people have seen and know the attributes of the Father, because Jesus also says according to John that ...

John 17.3 "Father,… This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent”
John 5:19 "The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing"
John 14:28 "the Father is greater than I”
Furthermore Jesus calls God, his God and prays to him.. John 20:17 " “I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God”

If the author of John meant in verse 14:7 that Jesus is God, he must have been crazy to contradict himself so blatantly.

1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

 

[Ajax]

The problem with religions and especially Christianity is that they are trapped in their archaic, unchangeable dogmatic beliefs and their only defense is to try and find excuses, when facing the many scholarly scientific discoveries and advances. Unfortunately there are many falsehoods and contradictions in the Bible, evolving continuously.
.

 

[jimb]

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Attributes of God, but they have not SEEN GOD.

What is the meaning of the word "ONE" in the Bible?

In the Bible it talks of Jesus being one with the Father John 10:30 but also says that we should be one with them John 17:11. In the Bible's original Greek text, is the same word used for both, or ...

christianity.stackexchange.com

“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of the Father. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one. Jesus also shares some (but not all) the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one.

Should I believe you or believe Jesus? Quoting two separated verses from John's gospel proves nothing.

If you think in natural terms, God the Father and Jesus (God the Sun) are separate. But the Bible refers to spiritual terms.

What do you think that Jesus meant when this occurred, "Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be content.” Jesus replied, “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?" John 14:8-10a

Stop trying to fit the mystery of the Bible into natural circumstances and you will begin to understand its special truths.

 

[jimb]

Read the post

It's sad that you don't understand what the Bible clearly says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

aspect a particular part or feature of something
Definitions from Oxford Languages

The Son is not an aspect of God, He is a Manifestation of God.
The Holy Spirit is not an aspect of God, it is the Bounty of God that flows from God to man through the Manifestation of God.

That is correct, and that one God is not divided into three parts.

Read the post immediately above this one, then explain to me what Jesus is saying. He is clearly exasperated that Philip believes in the same natural fashion as you do.

Please clearly explain what, according to you, Jesus meant when He said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me".

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you think that Jesus meant when this occurred, "Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be content.” Jesus replied, “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?" John 14:8-10a

Jesus meant that we have seen the Attributes of God such as Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, and Patient in Him (Jesus).
All those Attributes of God are in Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

Please clearly explain what, according to you, Jesus meant when He said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me".

I just did. See post above.

 

[jimb]

Read the post

It's sad that you don't understand what the Bible clearly says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

aspect a particular part or feature of something
Definitions from Oxford Languages

The Son is not an aspect of God, He is a Manifestation of God.
The Holy Spirit is not an aspect of God, it is the Bounty of God that flows from God to man through the Manifestation of God.

That is correct, and that one God is not divided into three parts.

Read the post immediately above this one, then explain to me what Jesus is saying. He is clearly exasperated that Philip believes in the same natural fashion as you do.

Please clearly explain what, according to you, Jesus meant when He said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me".

Jesus meant that we have seen the Attributes of God such as Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, and Patient in Him (Jesus).
All those Attributes of God are in Jesus.

But that is NOT what it says. That is your interpretation only.

Jesus said these words: "I am in the Father, and the Father is in me". He didn't say "I have the same attributes" or "I am like the Father" or anything like that. There is no other reasonable interpretation other than God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God.

Either you believe what God's word clearly says or you don't. It's that simple.

 

[Trailblazer]

Read the post immediately above this one, then explain to me what Jesus is saying. He is clearly exasperated that Philip believes in the same natural fashion as you do.

Please clearly explain what, according to you, Jesus meant when He said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me".

I already did that in post #1,291

But that is NOT what it says. That is your interpretation only.

All written material requires an interpretation.
What is YOUR interpretation?

Jesus said these words: "I am in the Father, and the Father is in me". He didn't say "I have the same attributes" or "I am like the Father" or anything like that. There is no other reasonable interpretation other than God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God.

God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God.

What do you think that MEANS?
Do you think that means that God is living inside of Jesus and Jesus is living inside of God?
If that is what you believe then you have reached the peak of absurdity.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

What is the meaning of John 14 11?

This means that we both believe Him as a person and we believe propositions about Him. If Jesus is not God manifested in the faith, then we should not believe Him. Our belief is both personal and contains content or propositions about Him. Our personal belief is belief in Jesus Himself. Mar 4, 2018

John 14:11 | Bible Exposition Commentary​

Either you believe what God's word clearly says or you don't. It's that simple.

The Bible does not SAY anything because it does not talk.

 

[jimb]

I already did that in post #1,291

All written material requires an interpretation.
What is YOUR interpretation?

God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God.

What do you think that MEANS?
Do you think that means that God is living inside of Jesus and Jesus is living inside of God?
If that is what you believe then you have reached the peak of absurdity.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

What is the meaning of John 14 11?

This means that we both believe Him as a person and we believe propositions about Him. If Jesus is not God manifested in the faith, then we should not believe Him. Our belief is both personal and contains content or propositions about Him. Our personal belief is belief in Jesus Himself. Mar 4, 2018

John 14:11 | Bible Exposition Commentary​

I think it's time to end this discussion, as it has been reduced to personal insults.

A perfect example is this sentence: "If that is what you believe then you have reached the peak of absurdity", which is nothing more than a personal insult. If you have to resort to that then I won't indulge your behavior.

Another perfect example is this sentence: "The Bible does not SAY anything because it does not talk." That is just foolishness! What are you really saying? Answer: NOTHING. Because you are communicating by typing. If you're reduced to that kind of nonsense, what is the point of continuing???

Have a nice day -- elsewhere.

 

[shunyadragon]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Why are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

 

[jimb]

Why are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

Correct spiritual discernment. Many people misunderstand the Bible because they lack this ability, as did the Pharisees and others when Jesus -- the Word made flesh -- appeared on earth.

 

[shunyadragon]

Correct spiritual discernment. Many people misunderstand the Bible because they lack this ability, as did the Pharisees and others when Jesus -- the Word made flesh -- appeared on earth.

Still does not answer the question:

IWhy are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it's time to end this discussion, as it has been reduced to personal insults.

A perfect example is this sentence: "If that is what you believe then you have reached the peak of absurdity", which is nothing more than a personal insult. If you have to resort to that then I won't indulge your behavior.

Another perfect example is this sentence: "The Bible does not SAY anything because it does not talk." That is just foolishness! What are you really saying? Answer: NOTHING. Because you are communicating by typing. If you're reduced to that kind of nonsense, what is the point of continuing???

Have a nice day -- elsewhere.

You said: God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God.

I said: What do you think that MEANS?
Do you think that means that God is living inside of Jesus and Jesus is living inside of God?
If that is what you believe then you have reached the peak of absurdity.

Maybe that could be taken as a personal insult.

Then you said that another perfect example of a personal insult is this sentence:
I said: "The Bible does not SAY anything because it does not talk."

That was in no way a personal insult because it had nothing to do with YOU.
Then you said: That is just foolishness!
I could take that as a personal insult, if I was defensive like you are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I said: "The Bible does not SAY anything because it does not talk."
Why is that foolishness? Does the Bible talk? What happens when we read the Bible?

You said: God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God.
What do you think that means?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, it is time for you to end the discussion whenever you cannot reply to what people posted, questions and other content.
That is called deflection.

What does it mean when someone is deflecting?

to attack or blame another person rather than accepting criticism or blame for your own actions: When someone deflects, they are trying to feel less guilty, avoid negative consequences, and put the blame on others. The guilty person deflects their guilt onto the person who is accusing them or onto another person.Mar 20, 2024

DEFLECT | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary​

Do you know how I know this is not just something "I" did to you?
I know because you did the same thing with someone else. You claimed that he insulted you when he did not insult you.

Who created all things: God or the Son?

This is a roundabout way of claiming that Jesus is not God. God exists in three forms: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One of these is visible: Jesus Christ; the other two are not. God exists in one form, as God. Jesus was a Manifestation of God. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[jimb]

Still does not answer the question:

IWhy are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

I don't believe that there is an objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation. The Bible contains many concepts that are spiritual in nature, i.e., they can only be understood spiritually. To put that spiritual understanding into "correct" natural understanding is difficult, and expressing that understanding verbally compounds the problem.