Understanding More About God of Israel.

[BilliardsBall]

To me (and in Mormonism), there is one God, a Godhead comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at. Jesus was with His Father in the beginning and was God himself in the beginning.

Master, Teacher, Creator, Lawgiver, Redeemer, Deliverer, Advocate, the Way, the Truth and the Life. Certainly not "a mere example." I really feel as if you want to think that we see Jesus Christ as some kind of a demi-god, which simply isn't the case.

Whatever God wants me to do. He will, after all, still be my God and I will be subject to Him in every way. How about you? Have you got your itinerary for the next life planned out yet?

The stuff I've heard about Mormons becoming gods or demigods in the afterlife on other planets--it seems like Mormons have been distancing themselves from this doctrine for some years. Do you know what I'm referring to?

 

[Katzpur]

The stuff I've heard about Mormons becoming gods or demigods in the afterlife on other planets--it seems like Mormons have been distancing themselves from this doctrine for some years. Do you know what I'm referring to?

I know exactly what you're talking about, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. I'll start a thread in the LDS DIR later today on the subject and will notify you when it's online.

 

[Joshua Ray]

Hi garrydons! At first glance the Shema (Hear O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one) quoted earlier by other posters, would seem to say that the Lord is refering to Himself as an absolute one. But in fact, the Hebrew word Adonai (for "Lobrd") is actually masculine gender PLURAL. So in fact, the correct English translation would be "Hear O Israel! The Lords is our God, the Lords is one."

In fact, there is not one place in Scripture where the Lord identifies Himself in the singular. There are always at least 2 parts of God (sometimes 3) either seen or heard by the patriarchs or prophets. For example, Abraham saw all 3 parts of God in the form of men in Gen 18. We see that 2 parts of God walked between the animal pieces (in the form of a "smoking oven" and a "burning torch") in Gen 15. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Samuel etc, all heard 2 voices as seen in Gen 22:11, Gen 46:2, Ex 3:4 and 1 Sam 3:10, respectively.
And even the Lord Himself told us he was a unified one in 3 parts in Ex 34:6 where God is defining God. He says, "The Lord, the Lord, God...." The Hebrew language doesn't have punctuation marks so translators put the comma where they thought it should be to help with the flow of the sentence. But unfortunately, by doing so they've "cut out" one part of God by saying, "The Lord, the Lord God" as if there are only 2 parts of God.

A fascinating tidbit of info on this subject can be seen in Gen 49:24, specifically in the phrase, "From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel." The Hebrew word used here for "Stone" is eben, which is actually a compound word (one word made from 2 words.) One word comes from av which means "father" and ben which is "son." So this passage is telling us that the Shepherd of Israel is the Father/Son. So integrated are the Father and the Son, that it is impossible to seperate one from the other. Just like we cannot seperate a rock from itself, we cannot seperate the Father from the Son. And as Yeshua (Jesus) spoke in John 5:23 "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." And this is just as true vice-versa. If one believes and honors the Son than that person must also believe and honor the Father. [/QUOTE

Hi garrydons! At first glance the Shema (Hear O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one) quoted earlier by other posters, would seem to say that the Lord is refering to Himself as an absolute one. But in fact, the Hebrew word Adonai (for "Lord") is actually masculine gender PLURAL. So in fact, the correct English translation would be "Hear O Israel! The Lords is our God, the Lords is one."

In fact, there is not one place in Scripture where the Lord identifies Himself in the singular. There are always at least 2 parts of God (sometimes 3) either seen or heard by the patriarchs or prophets. For example, Abraham saw all 3 parts of God in the form of men in Gen 18. We see that 2 parts of God walked between the animal pieces (in the form of a "smoking oven" and a "burning torch") in Gen 15. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Samuel etc, all heard 2 voices as seen in Gen 22:11, Gen 46:2, Ex 3:4 and 1 Sam 3:10, respectively.
And even the Lord Himself told us he was a unified one in 3 parts in Ex 34:6 where God is defining God. He says, "The Lord, the Lord, God...." The Hebrew language doesn't have punctuation marks so translators put the comma where they thought it should be to help with the flow of the sentence. But unfortunately, by doing so they've "cut out" one part of God by saying, "The Lord, the Lord God" as if there are only 2 parts of God.

A fascinating tidbit of info on this subject can be seen in Gen 49:24, specifically in the phrase, "From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel." The Hebrew word used here for "Stone" is eben, which is actually a compound word (one word made from 2 words.) One word comes from av which means "father" and ben which is "son." So this passage is telling us that the Shepherd of Israel is the Father/Son. So integrated are the Father and the Son, that it is impossible to seperate one from the other. Just like we cannot seperate a rock from itself, we cannot seperate the Father from the Son. And as Yeshua (Jesus) spoke in John 5:23 "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." And this is just as true vice-versa. If one believes and honors the Son than that person must also believe and honor the Father.

Genesis 18: three men appeared. Abraham spoke to the Lord.

Genesis 18:22 : the men left toward Sodom. Abraham continued speaking to the Lord.

Genesis 19: Two angels reached Sodom and the inhabitants of Sodom thought they were men.

This would imply that only One of the three is the Lord.

 

[Joshua Ray]

What i dont understand is how can God come first in the minds of people when women and children are encouraged to be submissive to men by the various religions? It seems that people are under the impression that they must worship men before God or at least many men are under that impression. But that seems completely opposed to what God wants according to the OT. Especially given the story of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his own son. My impression from that story is that God wanted to see how far Abraham would go to submit to Him

 

[BilliardsBall]

What i dont understand is how can God come first in the minds of people when women and children are encouraged to be submissive to men by the various religions? It seems that people are under the impression that they must worship men before God or at least many men are under that impression. But that seems completely opposed to what God wants according to the OT. Especially given the story of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his own son. My impression from that story is that God wanted to see how far Abraham would go to submit to Him

I think that touches on my point as to the fact that Jesus received worship without reproving His worshippers--because He is divine.

 

[Zardoz]

Just a note,

While it's not mandatory to have a declared religion in your profile, it does assist with the spirit of the D.I.R. rules to see if a poster belongs to the group the D.I.R. forum serves.

Besides, there's been so few declared MJ on these forums, that if you consider yourself one, it would be of great service to self-identify as such.

Shalom

 

[anotherglenda]

I already took such a plunge and paid a personal, heavy price for trusting Jesus as a zealous Jew! And yes, I'd be willing to "dance a new step" if you can convince me via the scriptures. But let me ask you, in the passage you're thinking of, wasn't it so that Jesus told the woman at the well that "I speak to you... I AM He... and that many believed Him because of His Own Word..."

I do agree with you, however, that there should be little or no complicated dogma in our Christian faith and practice.

Dear BilliardsBall,
I appreciate the plunge and cost and also appreciate it is so worthwhile. Well done.
I think this may be the woman at the well section you were considering. The woman knew Messiah was coming. Jesus admitted to being him ... Messiah is not God Himself but a human anointed by God to act as His agent and there are a few Messiahs in scripture, including Cyrus (Is 45:1)
Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

As can be seen from what Jesus told that lady, God is a spirit. Jesus is not a spirit as Jesus also clarified himself LK 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I think there may be a problem of assuming the Hebrew and Greek words for God's name equate but they don't ... in Hebrew, God's name can be written in English as 'I AM' from Hebrew texts, but in Greek (eg Septuagint) it is written in English as 'The Being' .... both are a form of the verb 'to be' and are the closest English can come to the original languages. In the NT, the words 'I am' are not the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew name of God which would be written as 'the Being' like in the Greek OT. It's like Joshua is the Hebrew word for Jesus .... they are both the same name but not written the same way in NT and OT ... same with God's Name, so 'I am' in NT is never God's name like it is in the English translation of the Hebrew. Jesus never called himself God.

Now for a deeper more uncomfy plunge .... NT tells us that many Gentiles turned to God and were saved way before Paul arrived on the scene, which proves that Paul is not necessary for us. After Paul came on the scene, many focused on Paul rather than on Jesus and even Paul admitted this error happened 1COR 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
To dive deeper, focus on Jesus ONLY since he said he is our ONLY teacher. MT 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Be one-eyed and you will discover that the eye-witness apostles spoke simple truth when they said,
ACTS 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
ACTS 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Deep water is good
God bless

 

[BilliardsBall]

Dear BilliardsBall,
I appreciate the plunge and cost and also appreciate it is so worthwhile. Well done.
I think this may be the woman at the well section you were considering. The woman knew Messiah was coming. Jesus admitted to being him ... Messiah is not God Himself but a human anointed by God to act as His agent and there are a few Messiahs in scripture, including Cyrus (Is 45:1)
Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

As can be seen from what Jesus told that lady, God is a spirit. Jesus is not a spirit as Jesus also clarified himself LK 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I think there may be a problem of assuming the Hebrew and Greek words for God's name equate but they don't ... in Hebrew, God's name can be written in English as 'I AM' from Hebrew texts, but in Greek (eg Septuagint) it is written in English as 'The Being' .... both are a form of the verb 'to be' and are the closest English can come to the original languages. In the NT, the words 'I am' are not the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew name of God which would be written as 'the Being' like in the Greek OT. It's like Joshua is the Hebrew word for Jesus .... they are both the same name but not written the same way in NT and OT ... same with God's Name, so 'I am' in NT is never God's name like it is in the English translation of the Hebrew. Jesus never called himself God.

Now for a deeper more uncomfy plunge .... NT tells us that many Gentiles turned to God and were saved way before Paul arrived on the scene, which proves that Paul is not necessary for us. After Paul came on the scene, many focused on Paul rather than on Jesus and even Paul admitted this error happened 1COR 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
To dive deeper, focus on Jesus ONLY since he said he is our ONLY teacher. MT 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Be one-eyed and you will discover that the eye-witness apostles spoke simple truth when they said,
ACTS 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
ACTS 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Deep water is good
God bless

In John, the word for "he" doesn't appear in the Greek. Jesus said I AM a dozen times within.

In Hebrews, Jesus is neither an angel nor a man.

In Phillipians, it would not have been robbing God of anything for Jesus to claim that post.

In the synoptics, the rabbis are enraged. Who but God can forgive sin? Who but God could claim to be returning from the seated position over heaven in Daniel? What crime could they find witnesses for, save that the whole assembled tribunal heard the blasphemy?

I get it--it's more comfortable for Jewish believers to keep Jesus not God. But He said, unless you believe that I AM...

 

[Zardoz]

...I get it--it's more comfortable for Jewish believers to keep Jesus not God. But He said, unless you believe that I AM...

Please keep in mind that many of us will not accept anything from the Greek John or the Roman Paul as true.

So, you'll have to prove this without those.

What do you say to Matthias in 7:21 -

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

Sounds to me that 'believe that I AM' being primary is not what Yeshua actually taught, regardless of what John or Paul claim.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Please keep in mind that many of us will not accept anything from the Greek John or the Roman Paul as true.

So, you'll have to prove this without those.

What do you say to Matthias in 7:21 -

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

Sounds to me that 'believe that I AM' being primary is not what Yeshua actually taught, regardless of what John or Paul claim.

I know--but it's hard to believe that Paul was anything but Jewish. A friend remarked the other day, "He says in Romans 12 he's a Benjamite! How cool is that? If you think about Judah and Benjamin together, likely all the apostles were Benjamites!"

The Messiah is more than a man or angel in Daniel, in Isaiah 9, in Isaiah 53, in many places...

 

[Zardoz]

I know--but it's hard to believe that Paul was anything but Jewish. A friend remarked the other day, "He says in Romans 12 he's a Benjamite! How cool is that? If you think about Judah and Benjamin together, likely all the apostles were Benjamites!"

The Messiah is more than a man or angel in Daniel, in Isaiah 9, in Isaiah 53, in many places...

Paul was only half Jewish, his father was Roman. Hence his Roman citizenship. While he got Jewishness from his mother, tribal affiliation is through the father, so he's no Benjamite even if his mother was.

I don't consider Paul an apostle, since he never even met Yeshua while he was alive.

I'd rather set aside angels for the moment, apples and oranges, eh?

One might reasonably conclude that Messiah (Messiah ben Yosef or Messiah ben David) is more than a normal man.
Considering all, it's clear he has a closer relationship to G-d than a prophet or a king, perhaps closer than even the Patriarchs!

Regardless, this in no way would make me believe he's G-d or a part of G-d.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Paul was only half Jewish, his father was Roman. Hence his Roman citizenship. While he got Jewishness from his mother, tribal affiliation is through the father, so he's no Benjamite even if his mother was.

I don't consider Paul an apostle, since he never even met Yeshua while he was alive.

I'd rather set aside angels for the moment, apples and oranges, eh?

One might reasonably conclude that Messiah (Messiah ben Yosef or Messiah ben David) is more than a normal man.
Considering all, it's clear he has a closer relationship to G-d than a prophet or a king, perhaps closer than even the Patriarchs!

Regardless, this in no way would make me believe he's G-d or a part of G-d.

How did Paul become advance beyond others of his years, and Hillel's great student, as a half-Jew? Which Roman would name their son Shaul? How is it that no one would notice he was lying about being a Benjamite? On what basis do you consider his citizenship the truth, but statement of being a Benjamite a lie?

The most important question I have is this--what are the textual evidences that give credence to Paul's and John's writings being false writings? Because I've read them, and Paul says nearly nothing that isn't a rehash of Tanach truth.

Thanks.

 

[metis]

Even though this post includes non-Pauline sources, one might check this out:

Matthew 5:31-32: “everyone who divorces his wife… forces her to commit adultery.”

5:38: “’an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth’… offer no resistance.”

8:22: “Jesus told him, ‘Follow me, and let the dead bury the dead.”

21:43: “The kingdom of God taken away from you and given to another.”


Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”


John 8:44: “The father you spring from is the devil… The Jews answered… .”


Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”

7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”

10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

11:20: They were cut off because of their unbelief and you are there because of faith.”

14:20: “All foods are clean.”


I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”


Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”

5:2: “If you have yourself circumcised, Christ will be of no use to you.”

5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”

6:15: “It means nothing whether you are circumcised or not.”


Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”


Hebrews 7:18: “The former Commandment (I.e. priests according to the order of Melchizedek) has been annulled because of its weakness and uselessness.”

8:7: “If that first Covenant had been faultless, there would have been no place for a second one.”

8:13: “When he says ‘a new covenant’, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing.”

10:9: “In other words, he takes away the first Covenant to establish the second.”


Obviously, there's a rather serious problem of linking Paul and the "N.T." in general to what's found in the Tanakh.

 

[Zardoz]

How did Paul become advance beyond others of his years, and Hillel's great student, as a half-Jew? Which Roman would name their son Shaul? How is it that no one would notice he was lying about being a Benjamite? On what basis do you consider his citizenship the truth, but statement of being a Benjamite a lie?

The most important question I have is this--what are the textual evidences that give credence to Paul's and John's writings being false writings? Because I've read them, and Paul says nearly nothing that isn't a rehash of Tanach truth.

Thanks.

Do you deny Paul was a Roman, when he himself said so, and used this citizenship on several occasions to his advantage? Do you really think Jews could get Roman citizenship? No, they could not.

What evidence is there that Paul's and John's writings are NOT false? Since they are the source of the trinitarian theology of Xianity?

By the fruit I decide what's false.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Even though this post includes non-Pauline sources, one might check this out:

Matthew 5:31-32: “everyone who divorces his wife… forces her to commit adultery.”

5:38: “’an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth’… offer no resistance.”

8:22: “Jesus told him, ‘Follow me, and let the dead bury the dead.”

21:43: “The kingdom of God taken away from you and given to another.”


Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”


John 8:44: “The father you spring from is the devil… The Jews answered… .”


Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”

7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”

10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

11:20: They were cut off because of their unbelief and you are there because of faith.”

14:20: “All foods are clean.”


I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”


Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”

5:2: “If you have yourself circumcised, Christ will be of no use to you.”

5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”

6:15: “It means nothing whether you are circumcised or not.”


Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”


Hebrews 7:18: “The former Commandment (I.e. priests according to the order of Melchizedek) has been annulled because of its weakness and uselessness.”

8:7: “If that first Covenant had been faultless, there would have been no place for a second one.”

8:13: “When he says ‘a new covenant’, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing.”

10:9: “In other words, he takes away the first Covenant to establish the second.”


Obviously, there's a rather serious problem of linking Paul and the "N.T." in general to what's found in the Tanakh.

Single verses as snippets of ideas define "out of context". And I think you are conflating concepts of Paul's halachic discussions/reasonings and some kind of anti-OT agenda. Example, Paul makes the case that the Yom Kippur sacrifice isn't fully efficacious because it was offered on an annual basis. Sounds like something Talmudic rather than anti-Semitic to my ears. Of course, after Paul, there were no Yom Kippur sacrifices... so that must be true or else we are misunderstanding OT scripture.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you deny Paul was a Roman, when he himself said so, and used this citizenship on several occasions to his advantage? Do you really think Jews could get Roman citizenship? No, they could not.

What evidence is there that Paul's and John's writings are NOT false? Since they are the source of the trinitarian theology of Xianity?

By the fruit I decide what's false.

1. Acts 22:3 says, “I am verily a man which AM A JEW, BORN IN TARSUS, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.” Acts 22:27-28 says, “27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea. 28 And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And PAUL SAID, BUT I WAS FREE BORN.” Paul was a Jew born in the Roman Empire, so he was a Jew with Roman citizenship. That doesn't mean he had a Roman father. Paul further says he wishes he could forego his assurance and spend eternity in Hell for the sake of his BRETHREN, the Jewish people. Do you have an historical source that indicates that no Jews could be citizens throughout the Empire? I'd be interested in seeing it.

2. I'm not a Trinitarian. I believe in a tri-unity, like the three sections my fingers make when I raise my left hand in a benediction, Levi-style. There was no way in hell, pardon my expression, I was going to face my family's rejection and persecution to become a Christian Jew if there were three gods like the crazy graven image "Christians" worship. No way in hell or in heaven. Here, oh Israel! ONE God!

3. The fruit of Paul and John is hundreds of millions of Jews and Gentiles who love Israel, G_d and Y'shua. A real issue is how I might be saved without them if I only have the synoptics. Am I to be perfect as my Father is perfect? Am I able to "exceed the righteousness of the rabbis" with my works without a substitutionary atonement? G-d forbid.

 

[metis]

Single verses as snippets of ideas define "out of context". And I think you are conflating concepts of Paul's halachic discussions/reasonings and some kind of anti-OT agenda. Example, Paul makes the case that the Yom Kippur sacrifice isn't fully efficacious because it was offered on an annual basis. Sounds like something Talmudic rather than anti-Semitic to my ears. Of course, after Paul, there were no Yom Kippur sacrifices... so that must be true or else we are misunderstanding OT scripture.

Nonsense, and what I posted was not only in no way taken out of context and, as a matter of fact, it's one of the most basic teachings that comes from Paul. The verses I posted are only a fraction of those that I could have posted on this.

Paul taught that Jesus was "the final sacrifice", thus Yom Kippur under that view point became unnecessary even though the Law requires it. Also, sacrifices could and were performed the year around, and they were performed for the issue of forgiveness as well.

Paul argued against circumcision that's required by the Abrahamic Covenant and reinforced in the Mosaiic Law. And then we see Peter negating the kosher Laws. And then we see a gradual walking away from the Law in general by the Way. Paul could not have done this by himself.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Nonsense, and what I posted was not only in no way taken out of context and, as a matter of fact, it's one of the most basic teachings that comes from Paul. The verses I posted are only a fraction of those that I could have posted on this.

Paul taught that Jesus was "the final sacrifice", thus Yom Kippur under that view point became unnecessary even though the Law requires it. Also, sacrifices could and were performed the year around, and they were performed for the issue of forgiveness as well.

Paul argued against circumcision that's required by the Abrahamic Covenant and reinforced in the Mosaiic Law. And then we see Peter negating the kosher Laws. And then we see a gradual walking away from the Law in general by the Way. Paul could not have done this by himself.

But a balanced view would indicate, also direct from Paul's writings, that Paul said:

* The law is perfect

* " " immutable

* " " leads us unto salvation

Etc.

 

[Katzpur]

The stuff I've heard about Mormons becoming gods or demigods in the afterlife on other planets--it seems like Mormons have been distancing themselves from this doctrine for some years. Do you know what I'm referring to?

I know exactly what you're talking about, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. I'll start a thread in the LDS DIR later today on the subject and will notify you when it's online.

Hi, BilliardsBall. I just stumbled upon this thread again and realized I never did what I promised to do. Coincidentally, I just posted something in the LDS DIR that I believe should clarify our belief for you. Here it is.

Just a note,

While it's not mandatory to have a declared religion in your profile, it does assist with the spirit of the D.I.R. rules to see if a poster belongs to the group the D.I.R. forum serves.

Besides, there's been so few declared MJ on these forums, that if you consider yourself one, it would be of great service to self-identify as such.

Shalom

Until I saw this post, I had no idea I was talking about Mormonism in a Jewish DIR. I've got to be more careful about that in the future. I will now make a graceful exit and ask for forgiveness.

 

[metis]

But a balanced view would indicate, also direct from Paul's writings, that Paul said:

* The law is perfect

* " " immutable

* " " leads us unto salvation

Etc.

Reread post #33, as some of that is attributed to Paul. Also, you might check out the numerous verses that deal with the Law that are found in letters attributed to Paul as found here: Bible, Revised Standard Version