UNC-Greensboro Declares Christianity Not a Religion

[CynthiaCypher]

Many... I was told a month ago by a co-worker They are Christian not religious, because they have a personal relationship with God.

And some New Age cults say the same thing "We not religious,we're spiritual"

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I didn't realize there was a point of contention... Anyways, you're stating it as a fact that there is an underlying reason for Christians to proudly proclaiming their faith as more of a relationship than a religion, and that reason is superiority of their religion over others. Are you sure about that?

From my experiences both with said Christians, and formerly being one, yes. I'm positive not all feel this way, it's just the type that I, and many people, normally have to deal with on a regular basis.

Let's stick with the analogy of marriage from my first post... If I were married and truly in love with my wife, so much so that I felt the need to share it with with everyone, would people see it as a love expressed, or as a love they could never have? Both are possible scenarios, but it depends solely on the outsider's personal perspective to the point.

I have no argument with this.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Christianity is a collection of various religious philosophies and institutions, while Catholicism is a Religion, I would agree that Christianity isn't really.

 

[Me Myself]

Christianity is a collection of various religious philosophies and institutions, while Catholicism is a Religion, I would agree that Christianity isn't really.

While I follow the train of thoughts, Christianity is still (and should be!) under the protection of religious freedom.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Christianity is a collection of various religious philosophies and institutions, while Catholicism is a Religion, I would agree that Christianity isn't really.

You could say the same thing about Islam or Buddhism.

 

[Adso]

From my experiences both with said Christians, and formerly being one, yes. I'm positive not all feel this way, it's just the type that I, and many people, normally have to deal with on a regular basis.

That seems odd to me, as the only people who proclaim some sense of superiority with regards to a relationship are the usually the people who have no real relationship at all. A proud man in a relationship feels superior only by association with the object of pride. There is nothing else he can get from it. A real relationship gives a man humbleness and gratitude because it highlights his faults and wants, and then answers them continually.

I have no argument with this.

My point was that some people can be so overcome with joy as to what they have in another person (God, in this case), that their praise of what they have comes off as conceited. I'm sure a lot of Christians come off as proud about their status of having a relationship with God, but I'm sure many of them did not intend it as a status of superiority. If they did intend that, they probably don't know God in the least.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The non-profit organization is the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Center. From what I can tell this is clearly a Christian organization. On their Restoration page it says:



What other religions talk about "true healing through Jesus Christ alone"?

I wouldn't say it's very "clearly" a Christian organization. That reference to Jesus Christ was buried in a link that's inaccessible directly from their home page and can only (AFAICT) be navigated to by a text-only link at the bottom of their "services" page.

And in any case, there are plenty of secular organizations that affiliate with a chaplaincy organization or the like to offer some sort of religiously-focused services for their religious clients. It doesn't necessarily make the parent organization religious.

Also, I'm not sure of the exact details here, but I wouldn't be surprised if in other contexts, the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Centre claims not to be a Christian organization so it can get on this list of locations where a woman can get the "pregnancy counseling" that she's required to get under North Carolina state law before she can get an abortion... since if religious organizations were on that list, I'm pretty sure that this would be a violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment.

So... looking at this issue a bit closer, I suspect that this might be a case of the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Centre trying to have it cake and eat it too.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I wouldn't say it's very "clearly" a Christian organization. That reference to Jesus Christ was buried in a link that's inaccessible directly from their home page and can only (AFAICT) be navigated to by a text-only link at the bottom of their "services" page.

And in any case, there are plenty of secular organizations that affiliate with a chaplaincy organization or the like to offer some sort of religiously-focused services for their religious clients. It doesn't necessarily make the parent organization religious.

Also, I'm not sure of the exact details here, but I wouldn't be surprised if in other contexts, the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Centre claims not to be a Christian organization so it can get on this list of locations where a woman can get the "pregnancy counseling" that she's required to get under North Carolina state law before she can get an abortion... since if religious organizations were on that list, I'm pretty sure that this would be a violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment.

So... looking at this issue a bit closer, I suspect that this might be a case of the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Centre trying to have it cake and eat it too.

Sounds like it.

 

[pwfaith]

I wouldn't say it's very "clearly" a Christian organization. That reference to Jesus Christ was buried in a link that's inaccessible directly from their home page and can only (AFAICT) be navigated to by a text-only link at the bottom of their "services" page.

And in any case, there are plenty of secular organizations that affiliate with a chaplaincy organization or the like to offer some sort of religiously-focused services for their religious clients. It doesn't necessarily make the parent organization religious.

Also, I'm not sure of the exact details here, but I wouldn't be surprised if in other contexts, the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Center claims not to be a Christian organization so it can get on this list of locations where a woman can get the "pregnancy counseling" that she's required to get under North Carolina state law before she can get an abortion... since if religious organizations were on that list, I'm pretty sure that this would be a violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment.

So... looking at this issue a bit closer, I suspect that this might be a case of the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Centre trying to have it cake and eat it too.

While it may not be directly clear on the very first page, it took me all of 3 minutes, looking through the pages to find evidence that the Pregnancy Center was Christian in nature. It's not rocket science. Looking at the link you provided, there are several listed on there that are clearly Christian or religious centers. Looking through the list of my area:

Amazing Grace Adoptions is a pro-life, christian adoption agency, seeking to offer an abortion alternative.

Bethany Christian Services - name kinda gives it away (as does the one above)

Catholic Charities of the Diocese

Life Care Pregnancy Center - very familiar with this one as our church does a lot of work with them.

Christian Life Home

Pregnancy Support Services of Wake Forest - Our churches moms group did a baby shower for 2 teens at this one last year. While it may not be obvious through their site, I'm fairly certain they are Christian or have Christian leadership at the very least.

I don't see how listing a non-profit organization would be in violation of the 1st Amendment.

The facts:

UNCG’s nondiscrimination policy contains an exemption for student groups that select their members based on a shared set of beliefs, which is stated as follows: “Student groups that select their members on the basis of commitment to a set of beliefs (e.g., religious or political beliefs) may limit membership and participation in the group to students who, upon individual inquiry, affirm that they support the group’s goals and agree with its beliefs.”

Pursuant to this policy, UNCG grants recognition to belief-based student organizations, including religious and political ones, and allows those organizations to limit their members and leaders to students who share their beliefs.

MUYOM’s constitution requires its members and leaders to agree with and affirm its Christian Statement of Faith.

MUYOM’s constitution requires its members and leaders to live their lives consistent with MUYOM’s Statement of Faith and the standards of morality taught in Biblical scripture.


MUYOM’s constitution requires its members and leaders to agree with Biblical teachings regarding the sanctity of human life and the standards of sexual purity, including abstinence until marriage.

MUYOM’s constitution requires its members and leaders to submit a membership application (which must be approved by MUYOM’s student officers) in which they describe their religious beliefs and views and sign statements agreeing to MUYOM’s Statement of Faith and life-affirming views.

MUYOM is thus a group of individuals who share the same orthodox Christian beliefs and agree with the Bible’s teachings regarding the sanctity of human life and sexual purity, and who, based on their sincerely held religious beliefs, have joined together to promote their religious message at UNCG.

MUYOM is a religious organization.

The belief-based exemption grants UNCG officials the authority to determine if a student organization is “religious.”



To determine whether a student organization is “religious,” UNCG must evaluate the religious beliefs and doctrines of student organizations, the nature of the religious duties and responsibilities student organizations impose on their members and leaders, the religious affiliations of student organizations with parent ministries, and other matters of religious faith and doctrine.

I just don't see how they wouldn't qualify.

 

[ChristineES]

Why on earth would a non-christian want to join a christian group, anyway?

I was wondering the same thing. Sometimes people want something just because they can't have it. If the club would have told he could join in the first place, he probably wouldn't have given it a second thought.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't see how listing a non-profit organization would be in violation of the 1st Amendment.

It's a violation when the religious organization is providing government services, or when the government is telling women that they HAVE to go there.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I was wondering the same thing. Sometimes people want something just because they can't have it. If the club would have told he could join in the first place, he probably wouldn't have given it a second thought.

I am thinking the UNC doesn't want that type of ministry on campus. It's discrimination pure and simple and unfair.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

It's a violation when the religious organization is providing government services, or when the government is telling women that they HAVE to go there.

It's not a violation when the government refers you to organizations that offer an alternative to abortion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not a violation when the government refers you to organizations that offer an alternative to abortion.

It's not just a matter of referral. NC state law says, apparently, that a woman can't get an abortion until she's been to one of the centres on that list for "counselling".

 

[thau]

So how does one account for these embarrassing news items?

With all the real problems troubling our nation and our people, there are well paid college boards that have to drag everyone's time and money through this issue?

It's deplorable.

Not unlike the ACLU spending a lot of precious time and resources suing to eliminate crosses honoring our war dead, located hundreds of miles in a California desert --- and a number of others similarly placed harming no one. The motivation behind these maneuvers is less than sincere or honorable.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So how does one account for these embarrassing news items?

With all the real problems troubling our nation and our people, there are well paid college boards that have to drag everyone's time and money through this issue?

It's deplorable.

Not unlike the ACLU spending a lot of precious time and resources suing to eliminate crosses honoring our war dead, located hundreds of miles in a California desert --- and a number of others similarly placed harming no one. The motivation behind these maneuvers is less than sincere or honorable.

Baloney.

Using people who died in service to their country as an excuse to advertise your religion is profane and offensive. Doing it in an unconstitutional way undermines the principles that many of them died to defend.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Baloney.

Using people who died in service to their country as an excuse to advertise your religion is profane and offensive. Doing it in an unconstitutional way undermines the principles that many of them died to defend.

:clap This.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

On the one hand, this is complete nonsense. How can you say Christianity isn't a religion? And to force a group with a common understanding and common goal to bring in those who do not share the same ideas is just absurd. However, on the other hand, how many Christians like to make the claim that Christianity isn't a religion....?

Add in the fact that many "Christians" can't even say what Christianity is...

 

[thau]

Baloney.

Using people who died in service to their country as an excuse to advertise your religion is profane and offensive. Doing it in an unconstitutional way undermines the principles that many of them died to defend.

What on God's green earth are you talking about?

If anyone is guilty of disrespect of our war dead it is the ACLU.

"Advertising religion," what a strange twist you deploy here.

 

[ChristineES]

What on God's green earth are you talking about?

If anyone is guilty of disrespect of our war dead it is the ACLU.

"Advertising religion," what a strange twist you deploy here.

It's getting the point where the word "God" is being called adverting religion. Well, that is an exaggeration, but sometimes I feel that way. But it doesn't really matter, I am not ashamed of my faith and I never will be.