UNC-Greensboro Declares Christianity Not a Religion

[pwfaith]

A 2010 Supreme Court case, Christian Legal Society v. Martinez, is beginning to wreak havoc with the accepted standard (and the First Amendment right to free assembly) that student organizations can restrict membership and leadership roles to those who accept their basic beliefs. Just a few weeks after the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill convened a task force to explore eliminating the right to exclude non-believers, a second UNC school has started down that path. At UNC-Greensboro, the administration has determined that a Christian student club isn’t really religious and “therefore must allow students of other religions and belief systems to become leaders and members as a condition to being a recognized group.” (There is also this situation going on over at Vanderbilt.)

The Alliance Defense Fund has filed suit on behalf of the UNC-Greensboro student group Make Up Your Own Mind. “Saying that a Christian club isn’t religious is flatly absurd,” said ADF Legal Counsel Jeremy Tedesco. Perhaps Make Up Your Own Mind v. UNC-Greensboro will clarify the matter more sensibly.

UNC-Greensboro Declares Christianity Not a Religion - By Jay Schalin - Phi Beta Cons - National Review Online

:sarcastic

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

On the one hand, this is complete nonsense. How can you say Christianity isn't a religion? And to force a group with a common understanding and common goal to bring in those who do not share the same ideas is just absurd. However, on the other hand, how many Christians like to make the claim that Christianity isn't a religion....?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Why don't they give them back their right to restrict their membership. They should have their right to associate with those they want to associate with. They shouldn't force them to accept non-Christian members

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Depends on the issue of funding, provision of resources, equipment and locations... if they are being subsidised at all by a public body...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Poking around online, all I can find out this club is that it is/was called "Make Up Your Own Mind", it wasn't affiliated with any church, and Christian PR sources are saying it was Christian, but aren't giving any specifics on why they say this.

I checked the University's web site and the club isn't listed in its directory of official student organizations, so I can't find anything about its charter or mission.

So... pwfaith: you said this club is Christian; why do you think this? What about the club makes you regard it as Christian?

Because where I'm sitting, there's absolutely no information to use as the basis for this sort of conclusion.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why on earth would a non-christian want to join a christian group, anyway?

 

[Tarheeler]

Poking around online, all I can find out this club is that it is/was called "Make Up Your Own Mind", it wasn't affiliated with any church, and Christian PR sources are saying it was Christian, but aren't giving any specifics on why they say this.

I checked the University's web site and the club isn't listed in its directory of official student organizations, so I can't find anything about its charter or mission.

So... pwfaith: you said this club is Christian; why do you think this? What about the club makes you regard it as Christian?

Because where I'm sitting, there's absolutely no information to use as the basis for this sort of conclusion.

Exactly.

The school didn't rule that "Christianity is not a religion"; it ruled that the club wasn't a "Christian" club. Big difference between the two.

Another fine example of sensationalism at work. :sarcastic

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Poking around online, all I can find out this club is that it is/was called "Make Up Your Own Mind", it wasn't affiliated with any church, and Christian PR sources are saying it was Christian, but aren't giving any specifics on why they say this.

I checked the University's web site and the club isn't listed in its directory of official student organizations, so I can't find anything about its charter or mission.

So... pwfaith: you said this club is Christian; why do you think this? What about the club makes you regard it as Christian?

Because where I'm sitting, there's absolutely no information to use as the basis for this sort of conclusion.

Thing is many student religious groups are not affiliated with a church, mosque or synagogue. So if this policy applies to one group it should apply to all.

 

[Adso]

On the one hand, this is complete nonsense. How can you say Christianity isn't a religion? And to force a group with a common understanding and common goal to bring in those who do not share the same ideas is just absurd. However, on the other hand, how many Christians like to make the claim that Christianity isn't a religion....?

I agree with you that it's absolutely ridiculous to declare Christianity not a religion, but I do want to address your second point:

Christianity is most definitely a religion in the broad term, but some Christians, including myself, like to think of it more as a relationship with God more than a religion. I accept it as religion, but for me, it's a great deal more than that, so the limiting term of "religion" seems odd. For the others who won't proclaim it as a religion at all, I think they view it a like marriage. You don't, or at least I hope you don't, think of your spouse as simply, "husband", or "wife"; those are just titles. There's a real relationship underneath, and that should be the focus. They view the title as the sum total of the thing, and feel offended and misunderstood, so they reject the title altogether.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I agree with you that it's absolutely ridiculous to declare Christianity not a religion, but I do want to address your second point:

Christianity is most definitely a religion in the broad term, but some Christians, including myself, like to think of it more as a relationship with God more than a religion. I accept it as religion, but for me, it's a great deal more than that, so the limiting term of "religion" seems odd. For the others who won't proclaim it as a religion at all, I think they view it a like marriage. You don't, or at least I hope you don't, think of your spouse as simply, "husband", or "wife"; those are just titles. There's a real relationship underneath, and that should be the focus. They view the title as the sum total of the thing, and feel offended and misunderstood, so they reject the title altogether.

I understand all of that. But my point of contention is that Christians make the claim to try to impose some sort of superiority over other religions, which is bound to happen. But from what I've heard, Christians who say this don't do so to emphasize the relational aspect that they think they have with their god, but to say that Christianity is better, because they have said 'relationship', whereas other religions don't possess this quality.

 

[Me Myself]

Was the Club religious? was it stated in the name of the group or elsewhere that this was a CHRISTIAN group?

 

[Skwim]

Poking around online, all I can find out this club is that it is/was called "Make Up Your Own Mind", it wasn't affiliated with any church, and Christian PR sources are saying it was Christian, but aren't giving any specifics on why they say this.

I checked the University's web site and the club isn't listed in its directory of official student organizations, so I can't find anything about its charter or mission.

So... pwfaith: you said this club is Christian; why do you think this? What about the club makes you regard it as Christian?

Because where I'm sitting, there's absolutely no information to use as the basis for this sort of conclusion.

From the lawsuit

Make Up Your Own Mind, a student
organization, and Bryn Carmichael;

Plaintiffs,

vs.

The Members of the Board of Trustees of
the University of North Carolina
Greensboro—Kate R. Barrett, Charles
Blackmon, Nathan Duggins, Carolyn R.
Ferree, Linda Hiatt, Randall R. Kaplan,
M. Lee McAllister, Richard L. Moore,
Susan M. Safran, Harriett Smalls, David
Sprinkle, Martin P. Weissburg—all in
their official capacities; Linda P. Brady,
Chancellor of the University of North
Carolina Greensboro, in her individual and
official capacities; and Ashleigh K. Musyt,
Assistant Director for Student Group
Leadership Development at the University
of North Carolina Greensboro, in her
individual and official capacities.
Defendants.
​

7. MUYOM's constituition requires its members and leaders to agree and affirm its Christian Statement of Faith.
source (PDF)
​

 

[Me Myself]

If the club is definetely Christian then naturaly non-christians shouldn´t be allowed in, or at least, they should have the cappacity of refusing entrance to non-christians for the reason of their non-christianity if they so choose to.

 

[pwfaith]

This article has more details ADF - News Release

UNC-Greensboro’s nondiscrimination policy contains an exemption for student groups that select their members based on a shared set of beliefs. The exemption states, “Student groups that select their members on the basis of commitment to a set of beliefs (e.g., religious or political beliefs) may limit membership and participation in the group to students who, upon individual inquiry, affirm that they support the group’s goals and agree with its beliefs.”

The “Make Up Your Own Mind” club at UNC-Greensboro applied for recognition under this exemption, but university officials denied the request, saying that the club is not religious even though the club has a clear religious mission and purpose and requires its members and leaders to agree with its statement of faith and beliefs about the value of innocent human life.

The university argued that the club is “not affiliated with a church but rather a local non-profit organization”; however, being affiliated with a church is not a requirement for qualifying as a religious organization. In addition, the university recognizes many other religious organizations that are not affiliated with a church.

The non-profit organization is the Greensboro Pregnancy Care Center. From what I can tell this is clearly a Christian organization. On their Restoration page it says:

Abortion recovery (Sea of Hope): Trained peer advocates walk hurting women through a Bible study in a confidential setting. The women explore issues of guilt and grief from past abortion and learn that true healing comes through Jesus Christ alone.

What other religions talk about "true healing through Jesus Christ alone"?

also found:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNHvqJJvFL813EMGCN5bvNIyfJ3iyA&cad=rja

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

So it's a pro-life organization then?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

So it's a pro-life organization then?

I think so. But still it doesn't matter if they are.

MUYOM is thus a group of individuals who share the same orthodox Christian
beliefs and agree with the Bible’s teachings regarding the sanctity of human life and
sexual purity, and who, based on their sincerely held religious beliefs, have joined
together to promote their religious message at UNCG

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

But if they're main concern is pro-life, then why exclude others based on religion? Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, are all pro-life. If the point is pro-life, they should accept everyone else who is pro-life, regardless of other issues. If they're going to be a supported campus organization, then, if I'm not mistaken, that would be following the rules. If they wanted it to be religion based, then why not just apply as a religious organization? That way they could keep it to where they address pro-life issues, and all from a particularly Christian view point, and not have to go through all of this other mess.

 

[Adso]

I understand all of that. But my point of contention is that Christians make the claim to try to impose some sort of superiority over other religions, which is bound to happen. But from what I've heard, Christians who say this don't do so to emphasize the relational aspect that they think they have with their god, but to say that Christianity is better, because they have said 'relationship', whereas other religions don't possess this quality.

I didn't realize there was a point of contention... Anyways, you're stating it as a fact that there is an underlying reason for Christians to proudly proclaiming their faith as more of a relationship than a religion, and that reason is superiority of their religion over others. Are you sure about that?

Let's stick with the analogy of marriage from my first post... If I were married and truly in love with my wife, so much so that I felt the need to share it with with everyone, would people see it as a love expressed, or as a love they could never have? Both are possible scenarios, but it depends solely on the outsider's personal perspective to the point.

 

[Me Myself]

If they are pro life christian organisation they very well can be.

It´s like trying to open a buddhist meditation group and having a lot of christian "Meditators" triying to join in with meditations about their christian prayers. It wasn´t merely "meditation" but buddhist meditation.

It´s not merely pro-life, it is pro-life with the CHRISTIAN (or at least mainstream christian) argumentation.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

However, on the other hand, how many Christians like to make the claim that Christianity isn't a religion....?

Many... I was told a month ago by a co-worker They are Christian not religious, because they have a personal relationship with God.